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resolved Hourman Print Comic
I'm looking to expand the comic book run page for the original 1999 run of Hourman (along with some information on the other Hourman in the synopsis section ala ComicBook.Batgirl and ComicBook.Teen Titans). I'd like to request it for it to be recovered/undeleted so that I may be able to give it a rehaul (as well as cull any Characterization Tropes included on the page which led to the page's deletion in the first page).
Edited by ElioHerondaleresolved Requesting mod reverts due to inaccessability to previous page versions Print Comic
I'd like to request a revertion to Characters.Teen Titans and it's affiliated subpages from it's initial mod revert in order to a: be able to recover the lost edits that were rollbacked since this website doesn't have any way to be able to see previous versions of a page like those that run on Wiki Media do and b: to be able to add in the addended Character Index that excludes Red Links which was what the original mod revert was based on.
[[WMG:[[center: [-Teen Titans Main Character Index Heroes Original Teen Titans and Titans West (Dick Grayson | Wally West | Donna Troy | Roy Harper) The New Teen Titans (Beast Boy | Starfire | Raven) | Arsenal's Titans | 1996 Teen Titans 2003 Teen Titans (Tim Drake | Conner Kent | Cassie Sandsmark | Mia Dearden) | Ancillary Titans Post-Flashpoint Teen Titans | DC Rebirth Teen Titans | Teen Titans Academy students Supporting Cast Enemies Deathstroke | Cheshire-]]]]]
resolved Edit War: Characters/Deathstroke Print Comic
First a brief background on the characters involved to give a better understanding of the situation:
Rose Wilson joined the Titans alongside Bart Allen in New Titans. However, she did not stay long on the team, instead becoming the nanny of Roy Harper's daughter in Titans (1999).
A bunch of things happened, she was drugged into serving Deathstroke who forced her to betray the Titans, got freed from his control and then rejoined the Titans during One Year Later, where she didn't have a good relationship with most of her teammates (Bart was not among them) except Kid Devil and later on Blue Beetle. She later quite the team, after some time rejoined for a few days before quitting again (Kid Devil died some time later and has not reappeared in comics since then) until the last incarnation of the team before Flashpoint where she was on good terms with almost everyone, including Bart.
Now the situation:
On July 18th 2023, I restructured the example "The Friend Nobody Likes" in the folder "Rose Wilson (Ravager)" to make it easier to read. Of course, I did not delete the content, just restructured the text and added to it. Among the text that was already there and which I merely restructured was the line "The only friend she had on the team was Kid Devil / Red Devil (Eddie Bloomberg)" which I restructured into the following sub point: "Defied with Kid Devil / Red Devil (Eddie Bloomberg) who, for a long time, was the only friend she had on the team." (again, the content remained the same).
On Februar, 9th 2024, the User Elio Herondale replaced "Kid Devil / Red Devil (Eddie Bloomberg)" with "Bart Allen" (without adding an additional point for Kid Devil, I might add) without giving a reason for the change.
On February 20th, I added some examples to the page. While doing so, I discovered the edit and reverted it citing Roses and Kid Devils explicit friendship compared to the lack of interactions Rose and Bart had until the last incarnation of the Teen Titans as reason. Afterwards, I messaged Elio Herondale (which, in hindsight, I definitely should have done to clear things up before reverting their edit, a mistake I now acknowledge and won't do again) asking why they replaced Kid Devil with Bart. Admittedly, at that moment, I had forgotten that Rose and Bart had met before the last incarnation of the Teen Titans. As such, in their reply the following day, they reminded me of that and then proceeded to replace Kid Devil with Bart again, further adding the line "since she first joined the Post-Zero Hour incarnation of New Titans." but again without citing a reason why they excluded Kid Devil.
I then replied in two messages:
In the first on February 21st, I conceded that the two did technically know each longer but counter-argued that they had barely interacted during that time while Eddie and Rose had a genuine, on-panel friendship during her time on the Teen Titans, the time frame the example referred to, asking once more why the replaced Kid Devil with Bart.
In the second message later that day, I proposed a compromise to end the Edit War: I would not touch their changes but merely add the following line "as well as Kid Devil / Red Devil (Eddie Bloomberg) who was her only friend during her time on the Teen Titans in Teen Titans Vol. 3 during and directly following the Time Skip of One Year Later.". This way, I hoped to settle the Edit War with a result both of us should theoretically be able to live with while also still having the entry be factually accurate.
They did not respond to either of my messages since then despite having been online multiple times, as shown by their numerous edits.
Recently, the mod revert reset the situation back to what it was before their edit.
Please note that my problem with their edit is not so much the addition of Bart Allen (since they've known each other for longer and never had any on-panel bad blood, I guess you could technically see it as somewhat of a friendship despite the lack of interactions reminiscent of a friendship between the two until the last incarnation of the Teen Titans) but rather the exclusion of Kid Devil, whose close friendship to Rose is backed up by both the source material (Teen Titans Vol. 3 #34 - #60, #70 - #71) as well as various sites on the internet, including DC's official wiki DCDatabase.
Since I've never been involved in an Edit War (and hope I'll never be again), I don't know how to proceed. Therefore, I am now asking you, the community at large, on what to do next:
Should I go through with the change I proposed or add another subpoint containing it on the risk they may just delete it without giving a reason? Or is there another option I do not know about?Or am I the one in the wrong in this Edit War and owe them an apology? I was hoping to handle this situation reasonably, though I do acknowledge that I made a mistake deleting their edit before messaging them. But if any of my other actions were also unreasonable, I welcome any and all constructive criticism.
If requested/required, I can, of course, provide screenshots of the messages.
Thank you for your input and have a great day.
Edited by McMagmaresolved Where To Ask if Something Qualifies For Applicability Print Comic
I feel like the themes of Superman Smashes the Klan qualify for the Applicability trope, but I do not wish to jump the gun and add something solely based on my opinion. Is there somewhere I can go to discuss this?
resolvedEdit War: VirtuousCharacterCopy Print Comic
Hey guys I don’t like to complain about certain examples I add being deleted or changed but The Mountain King deleted my example of V from V for Vendetta being a Virtuous Character Copy claiming their connection is weak. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Main.VirtuousCharacterCopy
I strongly disagree given there’s many similarities to Joker and V when it comes to anarchism and pantomime imagery. With the Alan Moore connection just being the icing on the cake.
What should I do? I already messaged them to argue otherwise but I’d liked to get other opinions. If other people agree with the deletion then I’ll accept defeat.
Edited by Yellow20resolved Character pages - navbox 'index' links and crossreferencing? Print Comic
Are there any guidelines for start of page navbox 'indexing' (the cross-referencing wikilink kind, rather than [[index]] tagging) on Character pages, for the cases where a work or franchise has a huge number of characters across a large number of sub-pages?
Looking at Characters.X Men Arakko (and the other X-Men Characters pages), I count 19 lines of links in the navbox before the page itself starts, mapping out approximately 50 different X-Men character pages. Presumably that also needs to be updated on all 50(ish) of the character pages any time it changes.
That's not an exhaustive list either, as it doesn't directly link to some of the single-character pages or the works-specific pages for particular comic books.
Most of these characters range across the wider franchise, appearing in multiple Marvel Universe comics and webcomics, so are not specific to any one comic series and their Characters page names don't mirror a particular works page.
(It's also using WMG tagging, which I’m not used to seeing outside of WMG pages, but I’m assuming that's not a problem?)
Looking at other sprawling franchises -
- Characters.Star Wars takes a different approach, with a single link back to the top-level page - e.g. as seen on Characters.Star Wars High Republic Era Jedi.
- Characters.Star Trek uses a much shorter list of links on subpages, mapping back to the relevant series (e.g. on Characters.Star Trek Deep Space Nine Federation And Bajor)- but its characters tend to be series-specific so it doesn't have quite the same structural challenge.
Is this approach fine 'as is', should it be condensed/removed in a similar way to Star Trek & Star Wars, or can it be streamlined in a different way (e.g. hide it in a folder to save space)?
Thanks!
EDIT: Edited to fix terminology and make navbox references clearer.
Edited by Mrph1resolved Trivia tropes - KeepCirculatingTheTapes Print Comic
As I understand it, Trivia tropes can't be played with - no aversions, subversions etc.
With that in mind, if something like Keep Circulating the Tapes stops being relevant, does it get deleted entirely, or does it get updated to acknowledge it was a historical issue?
For context, pretty much all of the Marvel UK early 1990s comics have been unavailable since the imprint imploded in 1994. Last week Marvel started republishing them digitally, with a second batch today.
A thirty year gap feels significant. But it's also no longer the case.
Is there a standard way to approach this?
resolved Trope grouping query - character sheets Print Comic
Hi,
I suspect I know the answer to this one, but just want to double-check before I start making sweeping changes across multiple pages (which I'll call out on discussion pages, but may not get a consensus from the tropers working on them).
There are a fair number of superhero comic Characters pages that group a character's superpowers in a way that seems to contradict How to Write an Example.
An extreme case would be the Vulcan folder in the initial 'Royal Family' section of Characters.Marvel Comics Shiar.
- Vulcan has been given a lot of useful powers over the years, so his entry has Superpower Lottery.
- Beneath that, we have broad categories such as Energy Absorption
- And beneath them we have Flight,
- Power Nullifier
- and other individual powers
- More than a dozen of them, in total.
- Beneath that, we have broad categories such as Energy Absorption
Firstly, the powers are only grouped there, not individually listed as their own alphabetical-ordered tropes in the main list. Even if they're not strictly subtropes, I’m pretty sure that goes against the Administrivia guidance.
Secondly, three levels of bullets feels like overkill, and they are written as if they're a long list of subtropes (with one power trope per bullet and the trope name immediately after the bullet), not wikilinks within example text for the initial trope.
…so, as well as adding them to the main list as tropes in their own right, I’d like to restructure and rewrite the multi-tier bullets as noted above. Probably combining some examples into a single bullet, e.g.
- After duplicating the powers of his fallen teammates in Deadly Genesis, Vulcan acquired both Petra's Dishing Out Dirt and Sway's Time Master powers - and he temporarily had access to Darwin's Adaptive Ability as well.
Does that sound like the right approach for this sort of situation?
As mentioned, this is probably an extreme example, but there are plenty of others - one recurring theme seems to be that characters with a particular power source (e.g. Powered Armor) get those abilities listed as double-bulleted subtropes within that trope, not in the main trope list.
Thanks!
Edited by Mrph1resolved Character page images - size? Print Comic
Looking at character sheets where there are a significant number of characters listed on one page, with images for each one, I’ve seen image widths 350, 300 and 250 all used as standards. Plus a few where the images on a single page aren't set to any standard size (which can look a bit untidy on the page).
Administrivia mentions the 350 for top of page images, but I can't see any similar guidance on this (and 350 does look quite big in this context).
Is there any written guidance on this, or a consensus on which it should be?
Thanks!
resolved AuthorAppeal - reusing characters? Print Comic
I'm seeing a few examples where tropers have added the Author Appeal trope because writers have reused familiar / favourite characters in shared-universe comics. For example, from the new ComicBook.Defenders Beyond works page:
- Author Appeal: The new Defenders roster is comprised almost entirely of characters Ewing's either created (Taaia) or written before, from Mighty Avengers and The Ultimates to Loki: Agent of Asgard.
As per the trope page, Author Appeal is "a particular gimmick or kink is so widespread and prominent that it is interpreted as a specific reason the creator actually produced the work".
I can see how that might be applied to an attribute of the characters - although that seems to veer closer to Creator Thumbprint unless it goes into kink territory.
But simply reusing existing characters, whether or not the writer created them, doesn't feel like it fits.
I'd originally asked the same question on the discussion page for the trope itself, but didn't get an answer - flagging it here just to ensure I'm not misunderstanding before I delete someone's work (I don't see a more appropriate trope to move it to?).
Thanks!
Edited by Mrph1resolved Character Derailment / Rerailment Print Comic
Just checking before I take Character Rerailment out of Characters.Marvel Comics Gambit and a few other places.
Character Derailment is clearly marked as Flame Bait and shouldn't even turn up in YMMV.
The sequel, Character Rerailment, is not marked as Flame Bait (although, logically, it sounds as if it should be?), but as per the note on the Trope page, still shouldn't appear on Works pages - again, as I read it, not even YMMV.
So, on that basis, I should (politely) nuke it rather than trying to move it, correct?
Thanks!
Edited by Mrph1resolved Troping characters with cross-media continuity? Print Comic
So, I'm guessing this must have come up before, one way or another...
Marvel Comics is now actively extending their shared Marvel Universe into webcomics via the Infinity Comics imprint.
They're behind a paywall, and a few get heavily reformatted (to work around the Infinite Canvas layout) and reprinted as paper comics many months later, but the consensus was that their works pages belong in the webcomic space.
And many of them are explicitly in the same continuity, on an equal footing with the paper comics, not a secondary Expanded Universe.
So, when they introduce tropes to particular Works or Character pages, that's not generally an issue.
But when crosswicking, tropes need to go into a media namespace folder on the trope page. And there are occasions where those tropes are solely or primarily in the Infinity Comics.
Where they relate to a particular work, I’m using that as my guide. So they'd go under webcomic if that's where they happened.
But where those tropes relate to a character, I’m sort-of assuming that they go under Comic Book, as the Marvel Universe (as opposed to the Marvel Cinematic Universe) is primarily a comic franchise. And it still feels like the least worst option to do this even when that trope has only been displayed by the character in a webcomic.
(Case in point: I've just added an America Chavez example to I See Dead People. She's had two solo comic book titles and been a member of at least three big Marvel teams - so if she can see dead people, that feels like a comic book character trope. But, at the moment, I think she's only displayed it in one of the handful of webcomics she's been in).
Thoughts? Is this a sensible way to do it? Or should I strictly stick to the media that the story with the character trope was in?
Edited by Mrph1resolved Recap page approach - X-Men (Chris Claremont) Print Comic
Just putting this on a new thread, as requested - it started as a comment on another ATT query about similar edits by the same troper, which has now been resolved.
ComicBook.X Men Chris Claremont, created June 23 this year, seems to be envisioned as an umbrella page for the writer's time on all of the X-Men related comics, not just the titular X-Men. As such, there's some potential for overlap with arcs and series within that era that already have their own works pages - e.g. ComicBook.The Dark Phoenix Saga and ComicBook.Magik.
As part of this, it's attempting to add more than 200 recap pages, one for each comic issue of the Claremont-as-writer era (including those spin-off miniseries etc. which are covered by other Comic Book works pages but don't have dedicated recaps). Redlinks on the recap index suggest that the plan is to put all of these under the X-Men (Chris Claremont) page naming rather than against their existing ComicBook works pages - e.g. the aforementioned Magik is listed as Recap.X Men Chris Claremont Magik Vol 12, not just Recap.Magik Vol 12.
I’ve recently added links to the existing ComicBook page leading to the existing works (again, ComicBook) pages for some of the story arcs that happened within that X-Men run, which frankywifeey274's deleted again, and he's (politely) explained in PM that these won't be needed because the new recap pages, and links to those works pages from the recap hub page, will cover that.
As mentioned on the other thread, I don't have a strong view on this, if tropers have actually got the time and energy to create all of those pages - but it seems to be a solo project at the moment and, in light of the comments on the previous thread, if this is going to be problematic (or reversed as it was for the Webcomic.She Is Still Cute Today recap pages that launched the other thread), it's probably worth calling out and letting them know before they sink all that time into creating it.
Thanks!
Edited by Mrph1resolved Shared universe characters - splitting character pages? Print Comic
Just double-checking if there's an agreed best practice on this sort of thing.
Viv Vision is a character in the shared Marvel Universe. She originally appeared in the Vision comics, then went on to become a member of the Champions team and is about to be the lead of her own solo webcomic story (part of a larger anthology comic).
These are all in the same continuity - and she's acknowledged as the same version of the character in all of them. That being the case, I’m used to seeing a single Character page, which may be linked from multiple places (e.g. several different Comic Book and Webcomic pages).
But, instead, this one's been set up so that it's split across two locations - for character tropes from her debut series, see The Vision (2015), but for the Champions team book she's here - Champions (Marvel Comics).
Each Character page links to the other.
Would I be right in thinking we'd normally combine them? The webcomic doesn't start until next week, but I don't think we'd really want a (hypothetical) third character page for that, would we?
Thanks!
Edited by Mrph1resolved Second opinion - religious comparison? Print Comic
Just after some guidance on the Immortal X-Men works page.
For context:
One plot strand in the series is that Well-Intentioned Extremist Exodus, a centuries old character who fought in the crusades, has reconciled his superhuman mutant powers with his Catholic faith by believing that, obviously, Jesus also had mutant powers.
He talks about “the Nazarene mutant” and considers one of the other characters the new, modern, messiah. He's portrayed as unstable and an unreliable narrator. This was all covered on the page under a Doublethink trope.
Another troper then updated that trope to say this was "rather similarly to the Islamic belief that Jesus was just one in a line of prophets"
I didn’t think that was very relevant comparison (Exodus is Catholic and there's nothing about his view that's related to Islam, so why mention Islam? Christianity has plenty of prophets if that comparison is really needed - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophets_of_Christianity ) - and putting a real-world faith into a fictional Doublethink example in that way seemed a little uncomfortable.
I deleted it on that basis, and explained that I thought this was stretching a bit too far in edit history.
It’s now been reinstated a few weeks later - I don't want to start an edit war, so before we go through another round of this, I would appreciate some other views on whether this sort of comparison really belongs there. Thanks!
Edited by Mrph1
I'm trying to have my comic series page, X's Omnibus, have an apostrophe on its name, but every time I try to add one, it takes me to a whole new page that says I cannot edit it (presumably due to the title having an apostrophe). Is there any way I can fix this?