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IIRC, Broken Base and Base-Breaking Character aren't supposed to be added until at least six months after a work has been released. This was implemented so knee-jerk reactions of hardcore "fans" won't make it into a work's page and cause more cleanup work for the more level-headed tropers.
Courtesy link: Captain Marvel (2019)
- Fly, robin, fly! - ...I'm trying!
If you mean Film.Captain Marvel 2019, the issue isn't that it's a base breaker, the issue is that the movie isn't even out yet and it's already creating headaches that are more trouble than they're worth
. To quote YMMV.Captain Marvel directly:
It's been a recently growing sentiment, more recent than Ghostbusters, I think, that unreleased works shouldn't have YMMV pages in the first place for precisely this reason. Just this week mods had to lock TearJerker.Avengers Endgame because it was attracting a dozen-plus entries based solely on the trailer.
There's no hard and fast policy on this yet, but I don't think you'll be seeing that audience reaction page reinstated until after the movie is out and there's actually things for the audience to react to.
Edited by sgamer82
If YMMV.Captain Marvel is removed for that reason, then remove YMMV.Avengers Endgame too will you? Also - Why did Laconic.Avengers Endgame get removed?
Edited by MasterSon
IIRC, YMMV.Captain Marvel 2019 was cut because it attracted drama. YMMV.Avengers Endgame doesn't seem to have this problem. (I didn't check because I haven't seen Infinity War yet.) BTW, I think stuff like that shouldn't be locked since trailers can have non-speculative YMMV, but that's for another thread.
Edited by OldLadyNightMan
Understood on the YMMV. MCU is a hotbed due to its popularity. I've seen some items in Film.Avengers Endgame and nixed them (with a message to the adder) (see Never Trust a Trailer)
Edited by MasterSon
I actually am in favor of a blanket prohibition on YMMV pages for unreleased works, as I think I've said before. (Even 'real' tropes for them are a bit of a stretch, since a lot of the Coming Attractions tropes require the final product for comparison).
I'm in favor of it, too, but mostly because lurking around ATT I see that a lot of the time a problem comes up in YMMV, it's exactly that, edit warring, or agendas or some other nonsense directed at a movie that's not even out yet.
As for why it's done here and not, say, Avengers, since it's not official policy yet I think the mods are taking this on a case by case basis.
Edited by sgamer82
I think this sounds like importing drama. Just because there's a lot of flaming going on on the internet doesn't mean we have to host that mess here. I say let's follow policy, wait six months after the release, and if it's still a base breaker then, it can be added as a fact about the state of the fandom.
Edited by GnomeTitan
I'm personally of the opinion we shouldn't allow any troping, much less YMMV and other subpages, until the property in question is released. It is nearly always inaccurate, uses "recent" language, attracts drama, and rarely gets corrected when the movie-book-whatever comes out and proves the pre-release tropes wrong.
^I whole-heartedly agree. I think establishing this policy would help impose 'quality over quantity' to trope pages, for one thing. Adding tropes to pre-release media also tends to encourage Speculative Troping.
As an example, I can remember when The Force Awakens came out, and the YMMV page had already amassed so many pre-release tropes that it was split into a "Pre-Release" and a "Post-Release" folder. But after the film had been out for a couple of years, the "Pre-Release" folder had become so outdated and irrelevant that it was eventually just removed altogether, thus it didn't really contribute anything worthwhile in the long run.
Edited by StardustSoldier
Honestly, "it's attracting similar drama to Ghostbusters (2016)!" may be the single worst argument for anything, ever.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Tossing in my hat for banning YMMV pages for non-released works. As far as I can tell, it has caused nothing but trouble.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Is this bring discussed anywhere on the forums? I think it is but can't recall.
Edited by sgamer82
It's been brought up here multiple times but I don't know if there's an actual thread in the forums about it.
Probably would be best to take it there anyways.
Edited by Arctimon
IIRC, Ghostbusters was getting much worse attention that Captain Marvel did. So I don't understand that argument, and Ghostbusters attention probably wasn't allowed at the time either because that was hard to deal with and so controversial. I haven't seen nearly as much negativity on Captain Marvel, there's been criticisms but not outright controversy. Anyway take this to the forums.
I'm also in favor of banning pre-release editing in ymmv. I confess I've been myself guilty of that but now I believe it's not okay to jumps the gun the second a trailer is released.
Edited by Silverblade2
I'd like to offer a counter-argument and defend pre-release YMMV pages. Yes, there are some pre-release YMMV pages that have problems with them, but that's similar to the issue of a Vocal Minority: only the problematic pages get brought up on ATT, so it looks like the issue is worse than it seems. For every Ghostbusters or Captain Marvel, there are plenty of other works that don't have any problems.
Additionally, some Audience Reactions, such as Epileptic Trees and Internet Backdraft, are specifically about how the work is perceived pre-release.
I'm certainly in favor of locking specific pages that keep having misuse added to them, but preventing any YMMV discussion pre-release seems a bit excessive.
My counter to your (accurate tautology) claim that only problem pages are a problem is that we have Darth Wiki for unpublished works. On the Darth Wiki, we can include YMMV tropes on the work's page (because we don't allow subpages for unreleased works). We have a section of the wiki for works that aren't published, and I think it violates No Such Thing As Notability to have pages for unreleased works in the main wiki just because it has more people interested in it. We consistently get Speculative Troping entries, even when they violate no other rules.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
There's a difference between "unreleased" and "unpublished". Unpublished Works is for works that can't be seen in any form by the general public, generally due to being made up by someone on the internet who has no plans to actually create the work. Even if a work is not released yet, it may still have published material such as trailers and articles which fans can extract tropes from and react to.
I'm going to say it's a good idea to disallow YMMV entries for unpublished works. Too many instances of kneejerk reactions, wonking, speculative troping, and other bad entries to convince me that allowing YMMV entries is worthwhile.
Im honestly suprised upon reading more.
Ymmv pages or hell alot of pages(Like with Endgame) , just becuase there are alot of tropes for it dosent create a problem unless the tropes themsleves are inaccurate.
I just dont see why "its too big" is so frustrating, especially given that context matters.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
To clarify, when i say context matters i reffered to the things like Endgames Tear Jerker page. A trailer can reveal alot.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Also, if Advertising is allowed information, then by that logic I could start troping works from people's twitter pages and putting them on the main wiki. I don't think that's sensible because I don't know which works will become Vapor Ware, Canceled Video Games, The Shelf of Movie Languishment, or Real Soon Now (Ashcan Copy would meet my standards of release to be considered published).
Aww okay. If it is verification issue I understand.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
^^ Also, there's still the matter of cleanup after the work is released; all the pre-release material is either inaccurate or indirectly timestamped (e.g. "Pre-release material / The trailer shows that [X] happens"). And it's not just on the 'great' works; any work is ripe for Speculative Troping.
^ @Kylotrope: For your own sake, visit this thread ASAP, before you get yourself banned for poor grammar and spelling mistakes.
Isnt this thread kinda massive. Shoudnt we take this to the forums
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Yes. Yes we should.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Can the Captain Marvel movie's YMMV come back up the the film may be a base breaker for some despite not being out yet but Ghostbuster 2016 and other films had similar flak before their release and their YMMV pages stay up. I am not trying to take sides on where the film will be good or bad, but I still feel the that the controversy surronding the film does not warrant the page's removal.