Regarding the Trivia namespace (crowner switched 20th Jan 2020)

Its a Character trope so it should be on the Character page.

And there is an expy Repair Shop thread already which went nowhere.

edited 24th Jan '11 10:49:29 AM by Raso

Wow, that's the first time I've see a debate actually influencing the voting process in real time!

edited 24th Jan '11 10:48:21 AM by Killomatic

I was about to ask why is Vaporware up there thinking it was Vaporwear....

Yes, those are two different, but similarly named tropes.

We can always rename Vaporware to When Its Done or something.

edited 24th Jan '11 11:13:31 AM by Killomatic

Vaporware is the pre-existing term for software that never appears and has been in use for decades. It either of them got renamed it would be Vaporwear which is a bad pun on Vaporware.

edited 24th Jan '11 11:22:55 AM by shimaspawn

That's a Repair Shop topic, and it won't fly, because not only is "Vaporware" an established industry term but Vapor Wear is a snowclone of it, not the other way around.

Edit: Ninjaed.

edited 24th Jan '11 11:22:32 AM by Fighteer

Yeah making a thread

I just added Directed by Cast Member to the crowner — I don't think it's come up in this thread before, but it seems to fit.

Also, I'm in part responsible for it being on the list (since I suggested Fake Nationality), but I'd like to strongly urge people to vote Yellowface down; I'd say it has implications about the work itself that are decidedly nontrivial.

I agree with Killomatic's various comments - those are the sorts of tropes that should stay where they are - similar to Take That! in my mind. Trivia should be for stuff that's only really visible outside the work itself.

edited 24th Jan '11 2:34:32 PM by suedenim

Just to be clear — since a lot of those comments are on the previous page — you mean Follow the Leader, Expy, Shout-Out, and Actor Allusion, right? If so, I agree.

Well, the reason that we wanted to move Shout-Out specifically is because of the tendency for tropers to see pattern everywhere, and thus catch "Shout Outs" in a lot of places where really they're just "Accidental Similarities To Other Works."

That's just Trope Decay, same as with Expy. Moving the trope in another section is a temporary solution at best. We need to hit this kind of problem at the source - tighten the trope definition and axe dubious examples on the spot, so that people know not to add it unless they're absolutely sure it's intentional.

edited 24th Jan '11 3:27:30 PM by Killomatic

Again that was strucken down in the recent repair shop thread. [1]

Anyway IMO anything character wise should stay on the Character page they are there for a reason, and not spread across 5 different pages like a huge mess. Expy also has a whole series of subtropes all around specific character types.

There is a point where this reaches "Stop Having Fun" Guys so we need to watch it.

edited 24th Jan '11 3:39:17 PM by Raso

TRS voted against tightening up the definition and removing the dubious examples so that's not an option.

Micah - yes, correct.

Re: Shout-Out, surely we can still get rid of bad examples, right? The existing definition does NOT allow for "random pattern recognition" examples where something just looks like it kinda-sorta might be a Shout-Out, so those could be removed.

edited 24th Jan '11 3:42:25 PM by suedenim

A character sheet is just an optional extension of the main article, so the same rules should apply to it. These aren't character tropes anyway, they are about the actor, or voice actor, or writer, or director, but not the character.

Sure it is, you just have to attack it again and again, until the resistance breaks and the stronghold is taken. Seriously, though, the wiki has been showing a distinct shift in attitude recently and changes like that will happen sooner or later. It's only natural that certain people will oppose them with all their might, citing nostalgia, Grandfather Clause and Ruined Forever, but ultimately we can't let such notions determine our priorities or TV Tropes will never grow to its full potential.

Okay, Rousing Speech is over now, back to the topic at hand.

An Expy IS about the character its about a character that is strikingly similar to another character from another work.

Like Char Clone ect

Trivia should be about things that are 100% outside the work such as actors and such. And an Expy does not have to involve the actors at all its all about the writing and such.

edited 24th Jan '11 4:07:14 PM by Raso

Some more for your consideration: Romance on the Set and Cast Incest.

Relationship Voice Actor, perhaps?

edited 24th Jan '11 4:04:46 PM by ccoa

Those two are pretty clearly Trivia as they're only tangential to the work at best.

I think that one is on the crowner already. Edit: It is at +8.

edited 24th Jan '11 4:05:30 PM by shimaspawn

I think Named After Somebody Famous should stay on Main, as it's essentially a Character trope. At least if the people actually are famous, which the examples seem to enforce.

Trivia would be the place for Named After The Assistant Producer and the like, if we had a trope like that.

It would be if a lot of times it wasn't Named After Somebody Famous Who Has Nothing To Do With The Work Or The Character. For example Trowa Barton on Gundam Wing is named after Tim Burton, just because. But he's Named After Somebody Famous even though the character wasn't otherwise based on Tim Burton at all. And you wouldn't know unless someone told you.

And that's just the unobscure stuff.

edited 24th Jan '11 4:22:02 PM by shimaspawn

Ok thats something I never knew... I thought it was Theme Naming with all the gundam pilots names after numbers in various languages.

It is, but he's a little of both.