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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

Libraryseraph Showtime! from Canada (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: Raising My Lily Rank With You
Showtime!
#245226: Jan 26th 2021 at 11:11:38 AM

[tup] to Latimer and another nyarly

Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
DrScavenge27 Since: Jul, 2020
#245227: Jan 26th 2021 at 11:20:50 AM

[tup] to Latimer and Nyarlathotep.

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#245228: Jan 26th 2021 at 11:27:57 AM

For Latimer, what's this about "gangs typically crack after four heists"?

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#245229: Jan 26th 2021 at 11:30:13 AM

It's from dialogue in the episode; Carter notes that gangs who run robberies like Latimer's crews do fold after four or five heists due to factors like infighting or sloppiness, yet there have been 12 heists over six months with the same modus operandi. The reason for this is that Latimer's been killing the crews every so often.

Edited by k410ren on Nov 30th 2021 at 12:49:56 PM

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#245230: Jan 26th 2021 at 11:33:11 AM

If that's more than just implied, I'll give a cautious yes.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Bootlebat Since: Dec, 2012
#245231: Jan 26th 2021 at 11:58:34 AM

Has anyone suggested Achriman yet? He's one HELL of a Hate Sink, at least.

MalleoWeegee Evolution Requires Sacrifice. from Eurasia Since: Apr, 2020 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
nwotyzal Since: Sep, 2019
#245233: Jan 26th 2021 at 12:14:28 PM

[up][up]that depends, what does he do?

k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#245234: Jan 26th 2021 at 12:16:59 PM

Since there seems to be enough votes, draft for Latimer and tree for Person of Interest.

  • Complete Monster:
    • Sam Latimer, from Season 1's "Mission Creep", is a bartender and ex-soldier who recruits cash-strapped veterans to conduct high-end robberies. While playing the role of A Father to His Men in public and to his gang, it's revealed that the gang avoids breaking up because Latimer murders the crews every few heists, then recruits another batch, even telling his crew to kill recruits if they don't like them. When hired by the mob to steal evidence from a police lockup, Latimer shows up once again as the crew attempts to escape, killing half of them before being forced to flee and being killed by the mob to tie up loose ends, just like Latimer did with his crews.
    • Alex Declan, from season 2's "Proteus", kills his victims and steals their identities. After recently murdering Special Agent Alan Fahey, his eighth victim, he steals his identity as well and later assists Finch and Reese in trying to uncover the killer on Owen Island to divert any suspicion from himself. During the investigation, Declan murders the island's deputy, framing a Marine in the process and endangering several civilians. When Finch discovers that Declan is the imposter, Declan takes Finch hostage and attempts to murder him so he can steal his identity like he did his other victims. Although Declan believes the identities he stole were being "wasted" and that he "did them justice", Finch ultimately deduces that he kills people because he enjoys it.

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#245235: Jan 26th 2021 at 12:18:28 PM

Would any arcvilains or main villains qualify. I know alonzo Quinn was proposed but nothing came off it years back for example ?

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
k410ren Since: Jan, 2016
#245236: Jan 26th 2021 at 12:21:39 PM

Well, Elias (who by the way is a Magnificent Bastard) has a Freudian Excuse and loved ones, Quinn doesn't do enough from what I recall, Simmons has Undying Loyalty to Quinn, Samaritan (and by extension John Greer) believe they're doing the right thing), and neither Dominic nor The Voice have been properly proposed. There could be a case made for the latter two while I have another Villain of the Week possibly coming in the next few days.

Edited by k410ren on Jan 26th 2021 at 3:25:50 PM

"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#245237: Jan 26th 2021 at 12:22:18 PM

I could check Achriman, sure.

DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
#245238: Jan 26th 2021 at 12:30:53 PM

[tup] Latimer and Zig

Edited by DemonDuckofDoom on Jan 26th 2021 at 12:31:02 PM

Tvtropesfan234 Since: Nov, 2019
#245239: Jan 26th 2021 at 12:32:14 PM

Edited by Tvtropesfan234 on Jan 26th 2021 at 12:39:56 PM

Stellarvore Since: Apr, 2016
#245240: Jan 26th 2021 at 12:32:14 PM

Also, please understand that Hate Sink is all about author intent and has nothing to do with "evil character with zero redeeming qualities".

Spawn: Blood Feud: John Sansker is an ancient vampire who hunts other monsters he deems inferior and as competition. Making himself known by torturing The Curse into giving him false information about Spawn, Sansker robs a blood bank, commits a series of mass murders in an apartment, pinning the massacres on Spawn and turning everyone against him from the homeless people he protects to his CIA contacts, making several attempts to kill him while gaslighting him into thinking that his costume is behind the killings. As Sam and Twitch catch onto Sansker, he brutally beats Twitch nearly to death and stuffs him in a locker and kills the cops accompanying Sam. Confronted by a newly invigorated Spawn, he expresses his goal to claim the title of leader of the vampires and take over Hong Kong, subjugating humanity to become cattle before he flees, satisfied with having destroyed Spawn's reputation.

Edited by Stellarvore on Jan 26th 2021 at 2:39:30 PM

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#245241: Jan 26th 2021 at 12:47:38 PM

Does Sansker do anything of note in his other appearances besides get his arm chopped off?

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
TiMBer1566 The Dragon from Virginia Since: Nov, 2018 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
The Dragon
#245242: Jan 26th 2021 at 12:48:16 PM

Whisper (2007): David Sandborn is a demonic child who possesses the ability to "whisper" thoughts and ideas into people's minds to force them to do whatever he wants, having already killed his father, and controlling wolves to chase his nanny onto oncoming traffic. When his mother tries to rid herself of him by arranging him to be abducted by Max and his friends, David torments his captors, killing one by inducing a heart attack, luring another into a frozen lake where he drowns, and plaguing Max's girlfriend Roxanne with nightmares despite her showing kindness to him. David also enjoys using his power on innocent bystanders, forcing them to commit murders to damn their souls to Hell. After forcing his mother to kill herself, David attempts to kill Max by trying to have him torn apart by wolves, but not before tricking him into killing Roxanne.

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#245243: Jan 26th 2021 at 12:49:30 PM

Please add David and Latimer to the Drafts.

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Stellarvore Since: Apr, 2016
#245244: Jan 26th 2021 at 12:52:53 PM

[up][up][up] Nothing of importance. And thus far, it's the only other time he's appeared.

TiMBer1566 The Dragon from Virginia Since: Nov, 2018 Relationship Status: YOU'RE TEARING ME APART LISA
The Dragon
#245245: Jan 26th 2021 at 12:55:24 PM

[up][up] The drafts page is locked.

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
WatTambor Since: Oct, 2020
#245247: Jan 26th 2021 at 1:13:09 PM

Here is my write-up for the banker:

  • The day I was forced to become a hitman: The unnamed banker is a serial rapist who uses his connections to get away with his crimes. He harasses at least one of his female employees and on one occasion rapes her. After this he kidnaps her young daughter and another girl, keeps them caged in his mansion and regularly rapes them for a long period of time. When the protagonist breaks into his mansion, he finds evidence which heavily implies that the banker has done the same thing to many other girls over the years and has later disposed of them.

Klavice I Need a Freaking Drink from A bar at the edge of time (Don’t ask) Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#245248: Jan 26th 2021 at 1:26:32 PM

Late yes to Latimer and Nyarlathotep.

Damn... How many is that for Nyarlathotep now?

Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.
CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#245250: Jan 26th 2021 at 1:32:35 PM

[tup] Zig/Nyarly and Latimer.

Edited by CloisterTheStupid on Jan 26th 2021 at 9:32:55 AM


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