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During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.

Specific issues include:

  • Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
  • A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
  • Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
  • Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
  • Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.

It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.

Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:

     Previous Post 
Complete Monster Cleanup Thread

Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.

IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.

When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "[tup] to everyone I missed").

No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.

We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.

What is the Work

Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.

Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?

This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.

Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.

Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?

Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard

Final Verdict?

Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM

illegaleagle90 A dorp bird from Livin' in the City Since: Jul, 2018 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
A dorp bird
#240701: Dec 19th 2020 at 10:05:54 PM

It was a character that recently appeared in Final Fantasy XIV. Well. Technically they appeared in patch 5.3, which was in... August, but this patch, 5.4 is where we actually get to see them.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from The Daily Bugle (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
illegaleagle90 A dorp bird from Livin' in the City Since: Jul, 2018 Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
A dorp bird
#240703: Dec 19th 2020 at 10:11:55 PM

Ok. I'll post my thing then... using said format.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#240705: Dec 19th 2020 at 10:15:19 PM

Sure to Lanpert and go ahead on the FF villain.

KazuyaProta Shin Megami Tensei IV from A Industrial Farm Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
RobertTYL Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
#240707: Dec 19th 2020 at 11:07:10 PM

[tup] to Trevor Lanpert.

Yee-hah, my first Anime proposal! I hope this anime isn't mentioned before in the past though, looking through the "K" section of the Anime CM List I didn't see him there, so...

The Work in Question

Kurozuka is a 12-Episode Anime adaptation of the graphic novel of the same name, made by Madhouse (the same guys behind Black Lagoon) in 2008.

The plot revolves around Minamoto no Yoshitsune, a.k.a Kurou, an assassin, Professional Killer and ronin from 12th Century Japan, who after rescuing a woman named Kuromitsu, eventually fell in love with her. But Kuromitsu turns out to be a vampire, and when Kuro is mortally wounded by his enemies, Kuromitsu gave her blood to Kuro, granting him immortality.

Recovering from his mortal injuries, Kurou fell into a Deep Sleep… that lasts for entire centuries. When he awakes, humanity is in the aftermath of an apocalypse, Japan is a wasteland under a dictatorship ruled by an entity called the Red Emperor and the Emperor’s right-hand man, a power-hungry villain named Hasegawa.

Early in episode 3, the resurrected Kuro awakes in the distant future; earth is a Crapsack World, and a powerful militia group called the Red Imperial Army is going on a killing spree, executing civilians left and right, for being associated as allies of a La Résistance group. The awakened Kuro managed to kill off a legion of Imperial Army mooks, but passes out in the process, waking up in a resistance compound after being rescued by an ally named Kuon, who is working with a resistance leader, an elderly woman named Saniwa.

For some reasons unknown yet, Kuro is constantly pursued by mooks working under the Red Imperial Army; everywhere he goes, the army attacks, slaughtering civilians and resistance members en-masse, and even after Kuro had killed off his attackers, another legion of enemies will come after him, leaving behind dozens and dozens of resistance members and civilians alike dead. For reasons that soon becomes clear...

So, Who is this Hasegawa?

Hasegawa is an Evilutionary Biologist and the high-ranking leader of the Red Imperial Army who, after finding out news about Kuro’s immortality from being given the blood of a vampire, seeks to capture Kuro alive to use samples of Kuro's blood to create his own army of immortals. Hasegawa is The Heavy in charge of organizing raids and carrying out large-scale massacres, throughout each episode.

Debuting in episode 5, in his first scene, Hasegawa is introduced ordering numerous "test subjects" (maybe a hundred or so, onscreen), resistance members and prisoners from slums captured by his army, attempting to covert his captives into mindless demonic soldiers. After each subject is deemed "incompatible" with his experimentations, Hasegawa then had each and every one of them disposed in a grinder, one at a time, where he will step on a lever causing his subjects to slide down a chute and gets grounded to a bloody pulp. At least 12 prisoners are pulped alive onscreen (remaining hundred or so are a Sound-Only Death), and the series implies that Hasegawa has been doing this on a regular basis, all in the name of "perfecting" his experimentations.

When Kuro finds out the reason behind him being pursued (after his ally, Saniwa, gets brutally tortured and killed by one of Hasegawa's followers) Kuro and what's left of the La Résistance made their way to the Red Imperial Army's fortress. An assault from Red Imperial Army helicopters reduce the good guys to Kuro himself infiltrating the fortress; but upon entering Kuro is greeted by a hologram projection of Hasegawa who announced he's been waiting for Kuro for a thousand years, before unleashing a hypersonic soundwave that knocks Kuro unconscious.

Kuro wakes up later, strapped to a chair in Hasegawa's lab. The part where Hasegawa said he's waiting for a thousand years? That is NOT hyperbole: using his experimentations, Hanegawa would substitute his body with a new one every hundred years or so. But realizing Kuro's immortal DNA could improve his experiments to a much higher level, Hasegawa then takes a sample of Kuro's blood and reveals he already abducted Kuro's new Love Interest, Rai, intending to use her for his latest experiments.

However, Kuon, a friend and ally of Kuro, barges into the facility and frees Kuro, at the cost of his own life. Kuro managed to chase Hasegawa to his lab, where the grinding machine Hasegawa had personally dumped hundreds of "failed" test subjects into, is located. Hasegawa had already developed a formula with the sample of Kuro's blood, and instead decide to inject the formula into himself: Hasegawa quickly transforms into a literal monster with venomous abilities, blinding Kuro with his venom projectiles.

In the fight that follows, despite being blinded, Kuro managed to impale the monstrous Hasegawa, and then fling Hasegawa into the grinder, turning him into a bloody pulp, an appropriate Karmic Death.

Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?

The series never explains Hasegawa’s backstory, other than depicting him to be a power-hungry, cold-blooded maniac who had no qualms sentencing hundreds of people to death by grinder after deeming them to be "imperfect specimens". No Freudian Excuse are mentioned either. Just your plain old power-hungry dictator who delights in commiting atrocities.

And a Bad Boss to boot. More than once in the show he threatened to dispose his underlings and henchmen in that grinder, or sending them to a Fate Worse than Death.

The Heinousness Standard?

Well, we did discuss an unrelated candidate from another work (one of mine earlier) set in a Post-apocalyptic Bad Future, where we reject him due to being a subordinate of a potentially larger organization; but this isn’t the case in Kurozuka. Hasegawa is the boss and leader of the Red Imperial Army, and throughout the series he’s established as the ones pulling the strings behind majority of the bloodshed and massacre. And oh boy does he ever enjoy his job.

Hasegawa does have his own legion of dangerous, genetically modified minions (implied to be Brainwashed and Crazy or Reforged into a Minion captured civilians or resistance members after Hasegawa performed inhumane experiments on them) that carries out his orders, with Hasegawa's dragon, Arashiyama, an emotionless, stoic henchman deemed "the most successful result", having the most screentime before being killed by Kuro; they are in charge of carrying out Hasegawa's raids and to "collect more prisoners" for Hasegawa's experimentations, but they didn’t get much development and are depicted as Just Following Orders or Punch-Clock Villains at most. In fact, with the exception of Hasegawa and Arashiyama, most of them only have one or two episodes of screen-time before getting killed off. And again, Arashiyama is just an accomplice that takes orders from Hasegawa.

Granted, the ruler of the Post-Apocalyptic future, called the "Red Emperor", is depicted to be The Man Behind the Man. But he spends most of the show as Mr. Exposition and much of his deeds are subject to Offscreen Villainy. He simply gets killed off by Kuro without much fanfare in the final episode, unlike Hasegawa whose gory death is depicted as a Crowning Moment of Awesome.

Should We Keep Hasegawa then?

He seems like a good fit.

Edited by RobertTYL on Dec 20th 2020 at 5:36:59 PM

DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#240708: Dec 19th 2020 at 11:24:19 PM

[tup] to Trevor Lanpert and Hasegawa.

Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#240709: Dec 19th 2020 at 11:25:01 PM

A yes to Hasegawa, easily so.

G-Editor Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
DrScavenge27 Since: Jul, 2020
#240711: Dec 20th 2020 at 12:38:35 AM

Hey guys, I found that one of us asked about creating EP for Admiral Razorbeard, but you said that you discussed him earlier. Can you please give me a link to that discussion?

DrScavenge27 Since: Jul, 2020
#240712: Dec 20th 2020 at 12:41:04 AM

You said that he's played for laughs but I remember that it's true only for non-canonic party games Rayman M, Rayman Arena and Rayman Rush and alternative universe cartoon RTAS.

Edited by DrScavenge27 on Dec 20th 2020 at 12:41:46 PM

DrUnknown Since: May, 2020
#240713: Dec 20th 2020 at 12:42:35 AM

[up][up] Here it is.

Edited by DrUnknown on Dec 20th 2020 at 12:42:50 PM

CloisterTheStupid from Oop North Since: Jan, 2019 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#240714: Dec 20th 2020 at 1:44:36 AM

[tup] Trevor Lanpert and Hasegawa.

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#240715: Dec 20th 2020 at 2:25:05 AM

[tup] Trevor (I'll take your word he's heinous enough; show seems to have a high standard); Hasegawa (first for Tōru Ōkawa?).

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
DemonDuckofDoom from Some Pond in Hell Since: Sep, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#240717: Dec 20th 2020 at 3:25:38 AM

[tup] to Oh Young-sook, Trevor Lanpert and Hasegawa.

falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
#240718: Dec 20th 2020 at 3:35:48 AM

Yes to Lanpert and Hasegawa.

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from The Daily Bugle (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#240719: Dec 20th 2020 at 4:38:15 AM

Yea to Hasegawa.

Part two of my final 2020 effortposts.

What is the work?

"The Dramatist" is the first episode of the second season of Jack Taylor, an Irish Noir Miniseries.

Jack is hired to investigate an apparent suicide at a college. It turns out his employer is more involved than Jack realizes, and has a vendetta against Jack personally.

Who is Professor Gorman and what has he done?

Professor Eugene Gorman, frustrated by his wife's past infidelity, embarks on a series of murders against women, drugging them and torturing them before killing them.

With his first victim, Gorman drops her from on top of a college building, before posing as a concerned faculty member.

Subsequently, as part of his plan to retaliate against Jack Taylor for sleeping with his wife, Gorman hires him to investigate the death, feigning politeness and joviality throughout their interactions.

Next, Gorman targets another student, drugging her, branding her with a syringe, and killing her through suspension trauma. To throw suspicion off of himself, Gorman frames a professor who was involved with the student illicitly, in the process retaliating for the latter's affair with Gorman's wife.

Eventually, when confronted about certain information about his wife being withheld (namely, that Iselda Brannigan was Gorman's wife, with whom Jack had an unwitting affair), Gorman reveals his resentment towards Jack for his involvement with the former's wife, then taunts Jack about the latter's suspicions against him.

Thereafter, Gorman captures Garda Kate Noonan, drugging and torturing her, luring Kate's superior, as well as Jack, to his hideout, and forcing her to decide who lives. Meanwhile he mentions that he murdered his own wife in retaliation for her blatant disregard for their marriage.

Gorman manipulates a student whose eye Jack had previously injured into garrotting Jack, only for Jack to fight the assailant off and convince him to back down. Meanwhile, Gorman kills the superior by impaling him.

Finally, once Jack arrives at Gorman's hideout, Gorman forces him at gunpoint to perform a scene from Deirdre of the Sorrows by J. M. Synge, before attempting to shoot himself as Jack attempts to prevent Kate's death. However, he is thwarted by Jack's assistant, Cody Farraher, who calls emergency services.

Ultimately, it's curtains for the Dramatist as Kate recuperates and Gorman is arrested.

Heinousness?

Gorman has less resources than Trevor Lanpert (the killer who drowned young girls), but he drugs and tortures 3 women, killing two of them (one by dropping her to death, one by invoking suspension trauma), had previously induced a morphine overdose in his wife, sends a student to kill Jack Taylor, and personally stabs Kate's superior when confronted. This makes for a body count of four, attempted body count of six. Considering he is competing with Lanpert, a vigilante squad, an abusive nun, a pedophile priest, a woman targeting a family, crime gangs, a group of gunmen, and petty criminals, his attempted body count is nothing to sneeze at.

Within the episode itself, Gorman has to compete with a shopkeeper who deals drugs and attempts to sexually assault an undercover cop. It is hard to tell whether the shopkeeper had committed sexual assault before, or how many victims (if any) he had previously. Gorman also has to compete with a different professor who is involved with students, but Gorman blows the latter out of the water.

Mitigating Factors?

Gorman is not portrayed sympathetically, inasmuch as he is portrayed as going way too far in his attempt to get back at his wife's infidelity.

Gorman's motive and vengeful personality are clearly defined, with Gorman being extremely bitter towards the men with whom his wife was unfaithful, as well as expressing misogynistic sentiments.

Verdict?

A possible contender.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Apr 10th 2022 at 10:06:16 AM

Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#240720: Dec 20th 2020 at 4:44:00 AM

Yeah I'll give [tup] to Professor Eugene Gorman (though it would help if you could give some idea of what those other antagonists body counts are like).

Edited by MGD107 on Dec 20th 2020 at 4:47:03 AM

SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from The Daily Bugle (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#240721: Dec 20th 2020 at 4:45:52 AM

Average body count per person is around 2-3.

[down][down] Pedophile priest only molests two boys and rapes one woman last I watched, so I was unsure if he was heinous enough next to my other candidates. I may yet look into him however. Also, Lanpert has killed 10 for certain, but has more resources, and is said to have hurt an undetermined amount more.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Dec 20th 2020 at 8:46:10 AM

Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#240722: Dec 20th 2020 at 4:47:31 AM

Thank you. In that case I'll definitely give an [tup] to the Dramatist.

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#240723: Dec 20th 2020 at 4:48:13 AM

So Gorman has 4 with 2 more attempted, while the average has 2-3. How many does that first keeper have?

Leaning yes though.

Also, Pedophile Priest? Any reason he doesn't count?

Edited by ACW on Dec 20th 2020 at 7:48:34 AM

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
falcontalons from Earth-2 Since: Apr, 2019
SkyCat32 The Draftsman of Doom from The Daily Bugle (Five Year Plan) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
The Draftsman of Doom
#240725: Dec 20th 2020 at 5:51:31 AM

As for Father Royce, the Pedophile Priest, I may make a case for him later.

Edit: Royce seems like he may care for his brother, if attending the latter's funeral before his own demise is any indication, and I see no evidence to the contrary.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Dec 20th 2020 at 9:23:09 AM

Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.

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