During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Wait, it was you who brought up William Lewis way back when? Huh.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
In that case, yeah ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to the Beast Killer.
Beast: I think with anthologies the heinous standard is treated like a bell curve. And really? Four others with Beast in their name? That's impressive.
Well technically one was a Red Herring where they believed they were a subject of prophecy known as "The Beast", although it latter turned out to be someone else, but I'm counting that.
Edited by Beast on Apr 15th 2019 at 9:06:06 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Beast Killer
The wifi here sucks
to the Beast Killer
Reposting because it got buried.
For Monster.Literature:
- Chance And Choices Adventures: None of the members of the Butterfield Gang are particularly good people, but special mention has to go to Gus Hutchinson. He beats his horses, and repeatedly talks about how he wants to "have fun" with the Williams sisters against their will to a degree that makes even his fellow bandits uncomfortable. He isn't even good to his own group; when Pete, another bandit, expresses a dislike of Gus, Gus takes advantage of a posse ambush to shoot Pete dead and blame the heroes for it. He also starts much of the violence the gang gets into, and is the one who bullies, goads, or coerces the others into their acts of villainy. He remains the only member of the group to never show any sympathetic side of himself whatsoever; even the second worst member, Roy Butterfield, at least has the excuse that his brother was killed and he wants revenge. Gus is just a grade-A bastard, so bad that in the second book, when he gets his throat slit in the night on the road to Little Rock, literally everyone in the story is a suspect because there isn't a single person who didn't have a motive.
For those wondering why Palpatine's first name is Sheev:
It is likely a reference to Shiva, the Hindu god of destruction. If true this illustrates Palpatine as a destructive figure within the mythology of Star Wars. To support this, Padme, who also hails from Naboo, has a name that in Sanskrit means "Lotus", so it would suggest Palps' given name is a reference to something related to Sanskrit. I am not an expert, though and there's a lot more I could go into.
Showtime!
to the Beast Killer
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Since its past is due dates, I'm just gonna say this:
Nobody counts on both Grimms Notes or W'z. And holy hell, honestly there is one potential candidate in Grimms Notes that didn't qualify despite I want him to qualify so bad. Mainly because of his loyalty to his master and his belief that fate is a cruel thing and tries at his best to make people escape their cruel fate much like his master. The thing about this guy is that, he's pretty heinous on his own because of his awful personal crimes that pushes him over the edge and intends to destroy the story worlds along with his master but yeah...
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Don't ignore a poster making a proposal, guys.
For the Choices one...I'd like to see a formal effortpost. But it doesn't sound like he does enough, sadly.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Yea on the Beast Killer
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
@Mimic: If you found that on a YMMV, cut and PM the troper. If you're proposing him, please do a formal EP. There was at least one in the last couple pages.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
To Polar: Uh, so it was for that. It only makes it worse IMO, Shiva is meant to be a benevolent deity, is pretty far from what Palpatine does.
Forest J. Cadwell, the Beast Killer
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Somebody's edited Dr. Viper's entry without consulting the thread.
IPP Wick Check created.
To add in a pothole that makes sense and correct a minor grammatical error. Nothing that needs reverting, maybe bring the entry here to submit to the main page.
Goku Black
Beast
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
But was the AV pothole really necessary?
IPP Wick Check created.
Alright, got a keeper from one of the more unfortunate DC live action adaptations...
What's the setting?
Steel, the 1997 adaptation of the DC comic featuring Shaq in the main role, was an adaptation so miscast and non-profitable it nearly killed the comic book movie dead. A loose adaptation, we have Shaq as humble giant John Henry Irons, who—after a demonstration featuring next-gen weapons of his design goes wrong and cripples his best friend, Susan Sparx, inspired to go out donning a goofy metal suit to fight crime. His nemesis, here? Nathaniel Burke.
Who is Burke? What has he done?
Played by Judd Nelson with a kind of passive-aggressive Smug Snake car-dealer energy, Burke's a grinning sociopath and one of Irons' colleagues in the military. Within minutes of his appearance? Burke hijacks the wave motion gun being demonstrated to a visiting senator and kicks it up to its full power for a proper "demonstration," causing an explosion that kills the senator and cripples Sparx—to his complete apathy, screaming at John only about how "I was going places!"
Summarily dismissed from the military, Burke turns to instead dealing the cache of weapons he's smuggled, forming a partnership with local crime boss Big Willy Daniels and supplying him with weapons. Demonstration of one of the prototypes results in it backfiring and zapping some unfortunate mook's eye out, to Burke's happy satisfaction. When one of Daniels' rivals expresses disgust at this and threatens him? Burke kills her (and two other innocent bystanders, to boot) by sabotaging an elevator and causing it to plummet. With Burke's weapons, the gangs go on robberies, shooting down cops and getting millions from robberies (who keep cover by gloating about their culpability loudly in public). In the meanwhile? Burke has another goon of his assassinated to make an example to the others, implying the same for one of his other goons for being too showy in public.
Burke finally reveals his true plans: capturing Irons and Sparx, threatening to murder the latter to keep Irons quiet, Burke advertises his wares to powerful criminals from around the world, allowing them his super-advanced weapons to "start the next WWIII." The only catch? Burke is their sole provider, making himself the sole and most powerful arms dealer in the world, leasing weapons for whatever destructive campaigns the buyer wants. Burke immediately shoots Big Willy dead when he realizes Burke's taking over ("Only I.") and Burke thereafter has one of his other minions killed as a demonstration for the advanced weapons for having lived out his use. Finally, when Irons turns the tables, Burke reveals his next ace in the hole: he's buddied up with Irons' young friend behind the scenes for the purpose of using the kid as a hostage in case things go south, putting a gun to his head and admitting he was to see Irons crushed before he kills him. Finally? One of his own wave gun beams reflects Steel's armor and fires back onto him, crushing him under flaming debris to finish the job.
Any mitigating factors?
Nope. Not a single one. Well, admittedly, most of his plans run on valleys of Fridge Logic (as do most things in the film) but it's not for lack of ambition. Burke's constant backstabbing murders, Bad Boss stunts, and extra sadism piled onto what could have been a pretty standard rapsheet make him go the extra mile in a film like this.
Conclusion?
Keep him.
Thoughts?
Edited by Scraggle on Apr 14th 2019 at 11:34:16 AM
Goku Black
Burke
I would say DC has come along way since then in films but Batman vs. Superman was only made a few years ago...
Edited by miraculous on Apr 14th 2019 at 11:58:22 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
to Burke.
Miraculous, id say regardless of what one Thogut on BVS, Comparing BVS To Steel is like comparing a punch in the face to being hit by a bus.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
I think you guys are making this way more complicated than it needs to be.
Whatever, I looked up how to do this, so...
- Setting: The setting is 1830's Arkansas, which at the time was still a western frontier state. However, this is a more realistic portrayal of the west. The law more or less works, there are no shootouts in the street, and while Bandit Clans do exist (for example, the one this character belongs to) they are not by any means typical or common.
- Character: Gus Hutchinson is a member of the Butterfield Gang Bandit Clan, though he is by far the worst of the lot. He...
- ...abuses his horse. We see the gang buy horses from the Williams sisters and when we see the horse he bought one month later it's covered in injuries and so scared of everything that it can't be left alone. We don't see him do this, but his fellow bandit Ben confirms that he was the one after they're captured at the end of the first book.
- ...repeatedly mentions that he wants to "have some fun" with the Williams sisters, to an extent that even his fellow bandits don't like and are constantly telling him to shut up about it.
- ...kills one of his allies during a posse ambush, on purpose, because said ally wouldn't go along with his plans.
- ...starts all of the violence himself. For example, the posse ambush was intended to be non-violent, the hope being they could surround the bandits and force their surrender. The other bandits were ready to surrender until Gus fired the first shot... into his own ally's back.
- ...encourages all of the villainy against the Williams sisters, playing on the others' desires to put them against the girls over and over.
- ...is also the one who burns down the Williams house, when the others only wanted to torch their crops. (And is the one who came up with the plan to torch the crops too.)
- Motive: Gus's only clear motive is lust and sadism. He mentions repeatedly, both aloud and in his thoughts (we have an Omniscient Narrator) that he wants to "have some fun" with the Williams sisters, and presses the others to continue their attacks on the family in the hope that he can get at the girls. Worth noting is that the other Butterfield Gang members DO have other motives. Charlie Cobb wants to break Roy Butterfield out of jail (and he dies before that happens, so we don't know what he would do after that). When Roy is released, he wants revenge for his brother Hank, and for the deaths of Charlie, Al, and Pete (not realizing the first two were accidents and the last was Unfriendly Fire, since he was in jail for all that). Al, Pete, and Ben are just going along with the group. Gus has none of that. His only stated desire is to "kill the men and take the women" and says aloud that he wants to do so even in chapter one when Hank is still alive.
- Conclusion: Gus is a complete bastard, and is one to the most of his ability. The only reason he's not out pillaging towns with abandon until the law finally takes him out is because he's not in charge of the group. Hank kept him under control and without their leader he goads the others into ever higher levels of villainy all for his own sick desires, until they're all finally captured.
Edited by Mimic1990 on Apr 15th 2019 at 12:07:08 PM
ACW: I haven't seen the whole series. But being a series of unrelated anthologies I didn't know if I should take them all into account to take them all as their own story.
Kylo: That's nothing, this is the fourth villain I brought up that used "The Beast" as moniker
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."