Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Yes to Kage.

Btw had this thread been moving really fast this week or what. It feels like we're burning thoigh pages at a breakneck pace

They need to make it so we can view more than 25 posts per page.

Mr. J and Kage

Two weeks passed since realese of Fire And Blood.

Any new candidate for A Song of Ice and Fire?

Kage

One potential, Maegor's Unholy Matrimony partner Tyanna of the Tower.

Nicolas Kage.

Also, 7 seems to be a lucky number today, as Mr. j has 7 thumbs up.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Dec 5th 2018 at 7:25:24 AM

This thread always moves really fast. I think this is the most popular YMMV trope on the site (but also the most controversial). I honestly can't keep up with you guys half the time.

Kagswell(As in Cogs well).

Might be why it's so popular. It's also a problem because if we've discussed a topic before, it's practically impossible to find it. Hence why some topics have been discussed over and over again.

One more I'd like to call, given how this series stopped with subtle villains? Rambo V

Kage from that game which had no issues whatsoever.

Also, Rambo V, huh? Didn't know that was happening. I need to catch up on those films. By all means, go for it, Lighty.

Mr.J.

Kage Mishimura

Reverend Osborne Whitworth

Gabriel

Also, remember that I am in the "I put someone named Gabriel as CM" club too. Hi Gabriel Miller

You know one thing that boggles my mind? The Complete Monster page for Kamen Rider is absolutely massive! With all the wanton destruction and forced transformations, you'd think the series would be drained dry of heinousness by now.

Alternate Continuity is a welcome. Most series do have their own heinous standard and is a Long Runner.

I agree tho, is impressive. Really impressive.

Edited by KazuyaProta on Dec 5th 2018 at 8:27:51 AM

Mr.J., Kage Mishimura, Reverend Osborne Whitworth, and Gabriel

Also after looking at comments on Willem I started looking back at Provost and he actually brought in some good points. While part of the reason why Provost warned Laurence not to use the blood was that he believed Insight was more progressive, Provost did showed some concern of what the the blood might do to people, and in turn Laurence respected Provost's concerns and still held him in high regard even after their falling out. There's also Provost summoning the Great Ones, but didn't actually know the true scope of the chaos that the Great Ones would have brought into his world, as he couldn't had handled the eldritch knowledge they gave him which resulted in him becoming a human vegetable. Lastly there the massacre at Fishing Hamlet in which Willem supposedly led , but the evidence is so vague that it only implies that he did it rather than outright confirming it. Plus there's also Micolash's crime which Polar explained and they do appear much more explicit than Provost's, so as much as I hate to say Provost came close, really close but in the end these militating factors and vague evidence might prevent Provost from actually qualify

That said I still think the Imposter can still count. She has less resources than Micolash and Provost, and with what she has to with she pretty heinous. She has subjected dozens, if not more, people to her twisted experiment, some being orphaned children, turning them into monsters against their will, the process is described to be extremely painful even though the Choir said they perfected the transformation sequence it never explains that it causes the victims any less pain. Plus there's evidence that she actually defected from the Choir and went on to joining the School of Mensis having experimented on the people that they had kidnapped making her an accomplice to their crimes as well as the crimes of The Choir. While she may have turn Iosefka into a Celestial Minion rather than kill her, its still a horrific fate for Iosefka and it was clearly against her will, tries to kill the Hunter with plans to experiment on him after wards, and the imposter is definitely more active in her villainy than Provost.

So with all this new information presented can you give your thoughts on the Bloodborne candidates?

Edited by G-Editor on Dec 5th 2018 at 3:46:18 AM

J, Kage, Reverend and Gabriel. Another candidate coming from good ol' Duck. You sure have a good taste for low-budget flicks.

What is the work? Babysitter Massacre is a surprisingly good homage to 80's slashers movies, including everything that the fans need: Believable characters, brutal kills and gratuitous nudity. Years ago, a group of junior high friends formed a babysitting club; everything was going well until one of the girls, Deuteragonist Bianca, invited April to go trick-or-treating on a Halloween night. The girls were attacked by a man in a White Mask of Doom who proceeded to kidnap April; instead of saving her friend, Bianca ran away in panic.

The group moved on with their lives, but blamed Bianca for April's kidnapping, causing her to develop a severe survivor's guilt; the only exception was our main character Angela, who always stood by her side. As grown-ups, Angela still hangs out with her group and Bianca is now a lonely Perky Goth with only Angela and her Nice Guy ex-boyfriend Tyler to keep her company. It is Halloween again, April is recently declared dead in absentia, the memories start coming back to haunt Bianca, and unfortunately for her and the group, the same maniac returned to finish the job... except he never left them alone.

Who is he? On the outside, Mr. Walker appears to be a sad, depressed man who lost his daughter April to a monster and acts as a father figure to the girls; this façade hides an obsessive, soulless man who doesn't really know what "love" means. Possessing a disturbing attraction towards Angela since she was young, Walker murdered his own daughter off-screen when she was a kid and used her death to get closer to Angela. On the new Halloween night, Walker dons his old costume and sets his plan in motion: Eliminate everyone in his path to kidnap Angela and keep her as his sex slave, especially her friends, the girls who were supposedly "mean" to her.

Starting the movie by texting a sitter with threatening messages, kidnapping her, ripping her fingernails and slashing her throat, Walker murders another girl in the woods and a couple, mutilating the woman with a razor. Finding another one of Angela's friends, who had just argued with Bianca, Walker murders her and her co-worker, all the while sending pictures of their dead bodies to Angela. Witnessing the masked killer walking on the streets, Bianca goes to visit the babysitter club members to make sure that they are okay. Two of his notable kills include pouring boiling water on the head of a girl and continously spraying another's eyes with a toxic gas. After killing one of the girls' boyfriends, snapping the neck of a woman whose only crime was opening a door, stabbing a girl in a bedroom and massacring an entire room of partygoers, Walker breaks into Angela's house and chloroforms her, along with her two friends Arlene and Lucky.

Taking them to the basement and tying Lucky to a chair, Walker informs Angela and Arlene that they must bludgeon Lucky to death with a hammer if they want to get out alive; Lucky allows Arlene to kill her in order to save her friends. Despite Lucky's death at the hands of her friend, Walker still strangles Arlene to death and unsmasks himself, revealing his true identity to Angela. Taking Angela upstairs, Walker slits her ankles to incapacitate her, not wasting the chance to rant on how he loves her and had murdered all the others to give her a way to start a new life with him, because "love means never having to say that you're sorry". After pouring gasoline on the kitchen floor and being stabbed in the stomach by Angela, Walker responds by doing the same thing to her; realizing that he was going to die, Walker comes up with the idea of burning himself with Angela because dying with her is way more "romantic". Walker sets the house on fire in a murder-suicide; the only survivor of his rampage, Bianca, who was already suffering from survivor's guilt, can only watch as the house burns down.

Heinous? For the slasher genre, Walker is pretty fucking evil. Torture and spree killings are already bad enough, but killing your own child just to get attention from her friend? Geez.

Mitigating Factors? There's only one thing "positive" to say about him: For some odd reason, Walker decides not to kill Bianca, but he does mention that he's "getting tired" of sparing her life, that's something to be worried about...

Conclusion? What you say?

Edited by TheMadCr0w on Dec 5th 2018 at 12:17:57 PM

to Walker. Is his first name Jay?

Edited by SkyCat32 on Dec 5th 2018 at 9:19:15 AM

Yea on the candidates that I missed.

And hey! I've been meaning to look on Daikatana. But I think its for the best tbh.

Walker.

@ Iosefka Impostor, I really need some sources here. For one, where is it said or shown she has "dozens" of victims? As I recall she half a dozen potential victims in the game proper and almost no info about her work prior to that. And two, where is it ever said the process of becoming a Celestial Minion or Emissary is painful? I consider myself fairly deep in the lore, and I have found no evidence of that save the experiments in the Astral Clock Tower.

I am glad you've reconsidered your position on Willem. Of course, it all depends now on if others on this thread follow suit.

I don't usually argue against a candidate with such passion, but I really love Bloodborne.

Yes to Walker.

I'll revoke my yes to Willem, yes to Walker.

So, I have a candidate from the film Widows.

A brief intro to the story. The plot kicks off when professional thief, Harry Rawlings, and his crew steal $2 million from Jamal Manning, a crime boss who’s running for the position of his ward’s alderman. During Harry’s getaway, his crew gets in a shootout with the cops which ends with their van exploding and the money getting torched. Jamal, wanting his money back, threatens Harry’s widow, Veronica Rawlings, to pay him back or else. Having no other way to pay Jamal back, Veronica plans on using Harry’s notebook to carry out his next planned heist. In order to accomplish it, she recruits the widows of Harry’s old crew to help her under threat of ratting them out to Jamal as well.

Now that that’s out of the way, here’s the candidate…

Who is Jatemme Manning?

Jatemme Manning is the right-hand man/enforcer for his older brother, Jamal. Jamal wants to make the jump to politics explicitly for the kickbacks, and because it’s safer than a life of crime. Jatemme, on the other hand, really doesn’t have any higher aspirations and seems to prefer his current position. Actually, he seems pretty bored with anything that doesn’t have to do with violence, killing or casual cruelty, which he always commits with a laidback demeanor.

His true Establishing Character Moment comes when he meets with two of his men who failed to protect the money Harry stole. When one of his men tells him he found the pair rapping, Jatemme orders the two to perform their rap for him. At first Jatemme stares down the one rapping, intimidating him, then he starts bobbing his head along and acts like he’s enjoying the song. Then he shoots the rapper in the head, turns to the one who was beatboxing and says, “Run.” The beatboxer runs but only gets a few steps before Jatemme shoots him too. Then he tells his men to clean the mess up.

Jatemme’s next act of cruelty comes when he visits Bobby Welsh, a bar owner confined to a wheelchair who was a criminal contact of Harry’s. Veronica had earlier met with Welsh and questioned him about Harry’s notebook, so Jatemme comes in to find out what she came in for. When Welsh refuses to answer, Jatemme stabs Welsh in the shoulder, avoids Welsh’s attempts to fight him off with a telescopic baton, and knocks him out of his wheelchair. Then Jatemme starts stabbing Welsh a few times up his leg and on his shoulder again to find out where he can feel pain and where he can’t as he tortures him. Welsh finally tells him about the notebook and Jatemme says that Jamal’s ordered him not to kill him, but says if he finds out Welsh was lying to him, an unfortunate act of God will happen to him. Then, to cap it off, he picks up his wheelchair and throws it a good distance away from him.

Next, Jatemme visits Bash O’Reilly, Veronica’s chauffeur who she plans on using as her crew’s getaway driver. Bash is nice guy but described as “simple”, and it's implied he has some kind of disorder. Jatemme says he wants Bash to help him get Harry’s notebook, but when Bash points out he doesn’t have it, Jatemme has his men beat him to death while Jatemme sits and watches the football game playing in Bash’s apartment, turning up the volume to drown out his screams. The next day he sends Veronica the Super Bowl Ring that Harry had bought for Bash and calls her, threatening her to get the brothers their money.

Jatemme spends the remainder of the movie mostly in the background, watching Veronica and her crew as they prepare for their heist. The plan is to steal $5 million from Jack Mulligan, the corrupt son of the incumbent alderman who’s running in the race to replace his (even more corrupt) father. After Veronica and her crew load the money into their van, Jatemme gets the drop on them, forces them to abandon their money at gunpoint, then steals the van and their haul, leaving them for the cops.

His success is short-lived though, as the widows chase Jatemme down in a car and rear-end him, causing him to crash and die. It’s unfortunately as anticlimactic as it sounds.

Is he heinous by the standards of the story?

For a low-key crime thriller, I think Jatemme passes the heinous standard. Even when he’s acting on his brother’s orders, Jatemme takes sadistic delight in hurting and killing people, usually prolonging their suffering just for his own amusement. His brother, meanwhile, is mostly pragmatic. The main reason why Jatemme doesn’t leave more corpses in his wake is because his brother’s holding his leash and stopping him from drawing too much attention to their operation while his campaign is going on.

The only other person in the story with a similar body count doesn’t count for a few reasons, but if I’m going to explain who they are and what they've done, it requires spoiling the entire movie, so stop reading now if you want to see the movie unspoiled. And if you haven’t seen the movie, I totally recommend seeing it cause it’s really good. Anyway, spoilers ahoy.

So, the big plot twist is that Veronica’s husband, Harry, is actually still alive. When we see the scene of his "death" play out from his perspective, it turns out he fired off a shot at the police so they would open fire, and set flammable tanks around his van so that it would explode and kill his three partners. He arranged the entire heist with Jack Mulligan, who wanted Harry to steal Jamal’s campaign money, in exchange for Jack helping Harry fake his death so Harry could run off with his lover, who’s actually one of the wives of the men he just killed, and newborn son, who is his child not his friend’s. When Veronica gets the van parked, Harry appears and tries to steal the money for himself and kill Veronica, only for Veronica to kill him instead. Harry doesn’t count for a few reasons, first off, he does appear to regret the death of his team, he genuinely loved his first son with Veronica who was killed by a racist cop during a routine traffic stop, and he still seems to care about Veronica in some capacity. His plan was for her to sell his notebook to Jamal to settle the debt, he never expected her to actually carry out his heist herself. When Veronica calls him out on everything, Harry tries to justify himself by saying their marriage was destroyed by the death of their son, and since he couldn’t save them both, he had to save himself.

Overall, the aforementioned character comes off as a desperate and pathetic weasel but not a monster. He doesn’t relish suffering like Jatemme does.

Does he have any redeeming or sympathetic qualities?

None that are readily apparent. Definitely nothing sympathetic but as for redeeming… well, his relationship with his brother is ambiguous. We never see any real display of care between the two, but Jatemme does do whatever his brother orders him to do. The most ambiguous scene occurs at the end while Jatemme is driving away with the widows’ stolen money. He’s listening to his brother debate Jack Mulligan on the radio and he cheers when his brother scores a point against Jack. Then he gets rear-ended and dies immediately afterwards. The reason I say it’s ambiguous is because it’s not clear if he’s proud of his brother or reasserting his established dislike of Jack Mulligan.

Conclusion?

I know his last scene is a little ambiguous, but I'm going to give him a yes vote. There's no concrete proof that he and his brother care about each other, and Jatemme comes across as a sociopathic manchild who just enjoys hurting people. The heinous standard isn't excessive, so his blatant cruelty really does stand out. I say he keeps.

Hell yes to Jatemme