During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
cut teddy. a shame too, because he would’ve easily qualify if it weren’t for that one redeeming quality.
Edited by mariogalaxy on Apr 12th 2022 at 5:03:04 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I took the liberty of adding Transformers to the Scripts index, and linking the 3 parts on the recap page.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
I'm reposting this since I ain't get a response
Btw is anyone familiar with Larkecius of Monster.Final Fantasy to rewrite. As man this looks off.
- Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Echoes of Time: Larkeicus is an immortal Clavat and a nasty piece of work. Originally, his goals were for the good of humanity, as he invented special crystal powered inventions to give the people of the world untold riches. Once the crystals began vanishing, though, the citizens blamed the collapse of the world on Larkeicus. They found a crystal in the forest and at first, Larkeicus wanted to investigate it, hoping to find more crystals. He instead had a change of heart and killed the villagers (including the children) in the village near the forest, which disgusted his apprentice Veriaulde the Yuke. Veriaulde tried to stop his master, but was knocked out. Sherlotta, the only survivor of the massacre, was a prime target of Larkeicus as she was given the ability to spawn crystals. Larkeicus decided to capture her and experiment on her and his apprentice so he could obtain immortality and be treated like a god again. Because of his master's experiments, Veriaulde transformed into a monster on contact with any crystals, which was a boon for Larkeicus, who wasn't concerned with the Yuke's well-being. Throughout the game, Larkeicus is shown to have free agency and is perfectly able to stop what he's doing, but is too engrossed in the scientific experiments he is conducting to really care about his apprentice or anyone else.
Jesus, RIP Gilbert.
I got a new EP.
What is the Work
Transformers Unite Warriors was a webcomic by Takara Tomy. The story involves Unicron trying to get a new body.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
Unicron returns again and tries to get a new body. Meeting up with Galvatron's ghost and Cyclonus, Unicron made a deal with them to give them a new body as Grand Galvatron by summoning several other Transformers from throughout the multiverse to be their components so they can conquer Cybertron for him. Eventually allying himself with Mega-Octane and the Commandos from the future, Unicron managed to get his head attached to Cybertron, possessing the entire planet. Unicron then betrayed the Commandos, revealing his plan to wipe out all of the Transformers, including them. As he summoned numerous beings across different dimensions and timelines, Unicron cracked the dimensional barriers and nearly caused the entire multiverse to collapse.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
None. As per usual, Unicron is an Omnicidal Maniac and betrays his allies.
Final Verdict?
I think he's a ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
.
EDIT: RIP Gilbert Gottfried :(
EDIT #2: I managed to make it a bit longer.
Edited by CookieMonster69 on Apr 12th 2022 at 8:45:49 AM
Professor Gigachad
Ep is rather short but seems bad enough so if there aren't any other problems Unicron
Yeah, sorry about that. I tried to make it longer but it is a fairly short comic to begin with.
The Emperor of Evil!
to Unicron.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
to mir
- Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Echoes of Time: Larkeicus is an immortal Clavat whose original goals were for the good of humanity, as he invented special crystal powered inventions to give the people of the world untold riches. Once the crystals began vanishing, though, the citizens blamed the collapse of the world on Larkeicus, leading Larkeicus to kill villagers, children included, when investigating a crystal—which disgusted his apprentice Veriaulde the Yuke. Then, Larkeicus targets Sherlotta, the only survivor of the massacre, as she was given the ability to spawn crystals and experiment on her and his apprentice so he could obtain immortality and be treated like a god again. Because of his master's experiments, Veriaulde is transformed into a monster on contact with any crystals, which was a boon for Larkeicus, who wasn't concerned with the Yuke's well-being. Throughout the game, Larkeicus is shown to have free agency and is perfectly able to stop what he's doing, but is too engrossed in the scientific experiments he is conducting to really care about his apprentice or anyone else.
The Moron
How's about another quote for my very own Talia al Ghul?
But on that fated day, one of the girls had insulted her. Something about her looks, no doubt driven by some form of misguided jealousy. An insignificant slight from an insignificant girl. Malcolm had no doubt Talia heard her, but she had hardly batted an eyelash at it. She carried on, the moment came, she did the deed, and a few hours later, the warlord was dead.
Along with his entire harem. Over fifty girls, all dead except for Talia.
And Malcolm knew.
Knew it was her, knew why she did it. Talia, of course, spun a tale for her father, one that he nodded along with, but inside he was sickened. There was being extreme, there was being petty, but this... this was neither of those things. This was just wrong.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Another Unicron I suppose, and the Talia quote.
So I deleted this unapproved entry from YMMV.Turtle Head:
- Complete Monster: Turtle Head A.K.A Simon Dale is a malicious sociopath that stalks and torments Harriet and Emma and has murdered both Blair and Marina purely because of his desires to date the latter.
So I actually played the game myself, and… time for another EP!
What's the work?
Turtle Head is an RPG Maker horror game by Let's Player Pikasprey. It later got a remake by Team Meatpie, Unmasked, greatly expanding the story- while technically a Fan Remake, Pikasprey worked on it (he gave approval for certain scenes and gave some ideas) and it has his approval.
The games star Harriet Lily, a shy schoolgirl who receives a mysterious letter saying "come to the school tonight, I’ll show you my favorite flower". She is joined by Emma Hawkins, who loves ghosts, occult stuff, and other urban legends; and Mason Camdenburg, a reserved boy who does not believe in ghosts. Emma wants to investigate rumors about a ghost haunting Smithlane High School at night.
Here are playthrough videos by Pikasprey himself:
So it turns out the "ghost" is real. He is a Serial Killer called Turtle Head for the turtle mask he wears, and naturally he is who I will be proposing. Now, the character is somewhat different between versions, but they basically have the same deeds.
Who is Turtle Head/Simon Dale? What does he do?
The son of Principal Kurtis Dale who used his connections to get away with his crimes. He started off as a pet serial killer, abducting and butchering pets from over 24 families in the old abandoned school building, stuffing their bodies in bags which Harriet and Emma find all over the building. He then went on to kidnap two schoolgirls and imprison them in the old school building, torturing them, then did the same to art teacher Marina Lily, killing her. Principal Dale, rather than turn him in, looked the other way and let him do as he wanted, fearing the blow to his reputation should it come out his son is a serial killer. He does try to get his son to stop before they both get caught, but it falls on deaf ears.
Now, the remake goes into his motivations for doing this. See, Simon was a friend of Marina who had a crush on her, but he wasn’t her type. Still, she would complain to him about one of her students, Blair Gardener, a delinquent who acted disruptive in her class and would bully Harriet, Marina’s cousin. So, in a deluded attempt to earn Marina’s love, he decided to get rid of, in his own words, the "pesky bee" who was "causing [his] darling flower some trouble".
So one day, when Blair and her best friend Kay Brown were walking home, Simon kidnapped them and brought them to the old school house. For an entire year, he kept them there and would starve and torture them. He even took Kay's glasses, without which she has a hard time seeing, presumably just to be a dick.
Mason: Hm? Elaborate if you could.
Kay: Well… I dunno. Like, he would set things up to taunt us. And they felt really personal too… Like my friend was scared of rats and, I guess he knew that somehow. Because in the beginning, he would feed us by leaving food around the building every few days. But he’d only put it in rooms with rats' nests.
Mason: That’s…
Kay: Oh, and this one time, he put some key at the end of a hall filled with mouse traps. We got it eventually, but it didn't do anything… I don’t know, it was… so strange.
Eventually, Blair got sick of it and tried to bust her and Kay out- but sadly, she only got herself killed by Simon and her body stuffed in a trash bag. He would continue to torment Kay. Of course, Marina found out and got mad at him- so, furious at her rejecting his "love", he abducted and killed her too. Now having grown a hatred for the entire female gender, he decides to get more women to kill.
In the main game of both versions, he lures Harriet to the school at night with a letter and sets about trying to kill her, Emma, and Mason. He knives Mason early on and leaves him to bleed to death (committing the classic villain blunder of not making sure your target is dead). He also leaves Marina’s body for Harriet to find specifically to cause her pain. Depending on the ending, Emma and/or Mason can completely disappear with the implication he killed them. But in the true end, Harriet gets Emma out, and Mason turns out to be an undercover cop sent to catch the killer. In the original, it turns out that the principal killed his son after his murder of Marina, with the heavy implication that he has returned as a Vengeful Ghost; however, the remake omits this entirely.
Now, Unmasked has a separate mode, Emma's Story, which is basically a sort of alternate timeline/what if. The backstory is the same, but this time Harriet is kidnapped by Turtle Head, who proceeds to push her down some stairs and beat her bloody, then throw her into the school swimming pool, intending to kill her by drowning. Depending on the ending, he can succeed in killing her and shooting Mason dead, or Emma can save them both and he finally gets arrested.
Heinousness?
So his total victim count is two murders with four more attempted and potentially successful depending on the ending. That might not seem like much in RPG-horror, even with the added dozens of pet murders (we tend to put sapient being murders as more heinous in this thread, if I remember correctly). But what I think pushes him over are a few things.
First, by all indications, he’s just an ordinary, human serial killer, not particularly wealthy or anything. He does seem to have supernatural powers as a spirit in the original game, but in the remake every indication is that he is a normal human, and Harriet and Emma are just hallucinating the weird stuff. Second is what he does to Kay and Blair- he doesn't just kill them, he kidnaps them, then starves and tortures them for an entire year at least, then kills one and continues to torture other one. We don't see the torture, but we clearly see how badly affected Kay is by it- when Mason saves her in the remake, she can barely stand due to having been tied up for so long, she cannot run at all because her body is too weak, and she is visibly sickly and abused. She even breaks down crying when recounting the torture to Mason. Simon then did the same to Marina- while we are not given an exact time as to how long he did it to her before killing her, a note by her says that it was long enough for her to lose track of time.
Similarly, he doesn't just try to kill Harriet and Emma- he plays sadistic mind games with them, like showing Emma photos of Blair and Harriet tied up to taunt her. And third, in the endings where he gets away, the clear implication- and what Harriet fears in one end- is that he will not stop, he'll go on to find more victims.
Mitigating Qualities?
Now, in the original game, he never really speaks or emotes beyond evil laughter (though he does occasionally leave messages for Harriet like “nobody is going to save you”, and he leaves Marina’s corpse for her to find to torment her in both versions) and he isn’t really given any motives for his crimes beyond For the Evulz.
The remake, however, does give insight into his personality, and while he doesn’t talk for most of the game, he does give an entire Motive Rant in the interrogation scene where it is made clear he is a whiny, pathetic narcissist, pissy that a lady didn’t like him back. His so-called love is clearly possessive, and he expresses outright hatred for Marina for rejecting him, calling her an "ungrateful bitch". From his language, it is clear that he sees Marina as a trophy to be won, not as a human being, and all his kindness and support was an attempt to "win" said trophy. The Developer's Room outright compares him to the modern "incel" movement by saying that, had the game taken place in modern day, he would be ranting in incel forums.
Here is a transcript of the interrogation scene:
- Mason: Up and at ‘em. You’re Mr. Dale, right? I heard you caused some trouble this morning. … Nothing to say for yourself? I expected as much. Go on, take a seat. You know... Before we start, I just have to say that it’s crazy. For a man who kidnapped and murdered several women in cold blood, you oddly don't look the type, under the mask... I’d guess that’s how you slipped past our radar for so long.
Simon: … Pshaww, are you flirting with me officer?
Mason: Oh would you be quiet? I wouldn’t take it as a complement.
Simon: I’ll take what I can get.
Mason: Tch, moving right along… Simon Dale, you are being charged for the kidnapping of three women and the murder of two. But I’m sure you’re well aware of that.
Simon: Yeah, yeah, no need to list my accomplishments.
Mason: Well I’m here to interview you before your trial. Judge’s orders.
Simon: Mmm? Go on. Ask me anything. I’m happy to answer whatever question you got. It’s not like it matters anymore. I was caught red-handed, wasn’t I?
Mason: …Yeah. So, Mr. Dale. What happened on the evening of July 6th in your eyes?
Simon: Well, a pesky bee was causing my darling flower some trouble. So I took care of it. You know what I did. Do you know what it’s like, officer? To do everything for someone you love, and be treated as a criminal?
Mason: But you are a criminal.
Simon: Mmm, not quite.
Mason: …? You think you did nothing wrong?
Simon: Not think. I truly loved her, you know. The ungrateful bitch acted all disgusted when I told her. That all of a sudden I was the bad guy because I solved her problem. I squashed the bee, I helped her sew a plush, I gave her compliments, I gave her all the best of me. And she still rejected me.
Mason: I came here for an interview, not to hear you while about how you were rejected. And no, I don't get it. I wouldn't have harmed my fiancee if she told me-
Simon: Fiancee!? Ah! But of course! A man like you could never understand my anguish. You won. You got your woman. How does that make you feel, hmmm? Happy you didn't have to go down the same road as me?
Mason: I know plenty of single men who can contain themselves like an adult.
Angie: Oí, not to interrupt but I wouldn’t have murdered my wife if-
Simon: Be quiet, female. Your input here is irrelevant.
Mason: Look, Mr. Dale, let’s stay respectful here. You’re the prisoner, and she’s the cop, understand?
Simon: I understand that this is a huge waste of time. None of you understand me. And none of you ever will. What’s the point of an interview if we won’t see eye-to-eye?
Mason: God you’re giving me a migraine.
Angie: This guy…
Simon: Go ahead and laugh like the rest of them. You make me sick. Both of you.
Mason: Oh, we’re the sickening ones now?
Angie: Yep, this ain’t going nowhere. Back to your cell ginger.
Simon: Finally. Good riddance to bad trash. You’re lucky I’m in handcuffs.
Verdict?
Overall, I am more comfortable with the remake version counting, but I do think the original version might have just enough personality… maybe. I am not really the best judge of that kinda thing.
Edited by MasterN on Apr 12th 2022 at 8:37:49 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Professor Gigachad
Turtle Head
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to Unicron and Turtle.
Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
The wifi here sucks
Yes to Unicron and Turtle head
Also I'm wondering of the new agency rules could mean that Audrey II could count now. They're more than bad enough and I recall their crimes being serious enough. How do people feel about this?
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
That's fair, it's been a while since I've seen it. I just thought about how the old discussion shot them down mostly on agency issues while listening to the soundtrack.
Edited by papyru30 on Apr 12th 2022 at 10:35:56 AM
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
Yes to Turtle Head. Absolute no to Audrey II. FAR too comedic there.
Unicron and Turtle Head note
Yes to Unicron, N's above, and hard agree with Lighty on Audrey II.
Edited by Riley1sCool on Apr 12th 2022 at 9:32:18 AM
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Turtle Head/Simon Dale
I love that subgenre of horror, going to give it a play
Watch me destroying my country
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Me too.
Here, Explorer Horror is the official trope for it.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Unicron and Simon
to Unicron, the Talia al Ghul quote, and Turtle Head/Simon Dale.
Unicron and Turtle Head.
Yes to Unicron and Simon
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to Unicron and Turtle Head.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Cut to Teddy.
Mir: Sorry to hear that mate, hope it goes well for you and your family.
RIP Gilbert Gottfried.