During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I suppose yea to Master Mold. Likewise gonna say yes to warden Sutter, Edna, Jonah, and Belcorra.
Edited by Scraggle on Mar 4th 2022 at 4:41:21 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I will say, the ONLY reason I'm okay with Jonah is because it seems he'd continue killing women.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Showtime!
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Jonah, Belcorra, and Master mold
Edited by Libraryseraph on Mar 4th 2022 at 7:09:31 AM
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Lies and Violence!
Yes to Sutter, Edna, Belcorra, and Jonah.
Next one! Keeping this one short, because holy hell do I hate this guy.
Who is Fabian Cortez?
A member of the Magneto-worshipping Acolytes, Cortez is introduced as a resistance member from the mutant-enslaving nation of Genosha, escaping with Magneto when he comes to liberate them to his sanctuary of Asteroid M. Unfortunately, his supremacist-side starts to show as he learns of humans being kept on the asteroid as guests. Cortez launches a missile at Earth and, when confronted about this by Magneto, launches him into space, framing the X-Men for his murder.
Quickly setting up a cult of personality, Cortez styles himself as the mutants' savior, torturing Gambit and threatening to destroy the world with the rest of the asteroid's missiles unless all enslaved mutants are freed and given compensation. Unfortunately for him, the X-Men expose his role in Magneto's supposed death and he tries to launch the nukes anyway. Even more unfortunately for him... Magneto is still alive. And very, very pissed.
Despite being left for dead on the crashing asteroid, Cortez is saved by Apocalypse and is sent to prepare a backup plan in the event of the godlike mutant's potential defeat. Creating a literal cult, Cortez has his followers try to kidnap children to be used as vessels for Apocalypse's disembodied spirit. They're stopped from doing this with Jubilee, but Apocalypse just decides to take Cortez's body. Couldn't have happened to a nicer person.
Does He Meet the Heinous Standard?
Tries to nuke the entire planet and resurrects the mass-murdering psychopath who intends to annihilate all of reality. Again, he probably hits the mark.
Any Mitigating Factors?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA no.
His rhetoric of freeing mutants against human oppression sounds nice, but couldn’t be more obviously just a front for a raving egomaniac. He doesn't care about his fellow mutants; he muses about killing his supporters for the pettiest of offenses, and deems the Morlocks — mutants forced underground due to their appearances — as disgusting trash. Any seemingly benevolent acts (such as demanding mutants be compensated for their oppression and declaring that he will target the horrific dictatorship of Genosha with his missiles first) are just to gain support and hype himself up to his followers, and he gleefully follows Apocalypse in hopes of seeing the weak and the "infidels" cleansed, mutant and human alike.
Imperfect Disgrace
Cortez, at least for now.
to Warden Sutter and Edna Dawson, Abigail Worthington, Master Mold, Belcorra, Reverend Jonah Smit (so him being a Reverend had absolute to do with the plot?) and Fabian Cortez
Goku Black
Fabian Cortez
I was sorta wondering about this one from the character page but hasn't seen these episodes in such a long time. I guess we know have an adapted cm for every example in the main folder in Monster.X Men?
Did the nuke stuff happen in the comics too?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Yes to Cortez and @MGD, There is a lot of religious and philosophical symbolism in it.
V
Fabian Cortez. Does remind me a bit of a certain real-life Cortes
Watched The Batman last night, if anyone wants to discuss it, feel free to DM me
Edited by MenInGreyToBlak on Mar 4th 2022 at 2:09:39 PM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to Cortez.
EDIT: Mir, EVERY one?
- X-Men: The Animated Series gives us Apocalypse (who has many others), D'Ken (forgot about him), Omega Red, Sabretooth, and now Fabian.
- Wolverine and the X-Men (2009) gives us Shadow King and Selene.
- Logan has Pierce.
- Sinister has a novel incarnation.
- X-Men Origins: Wolverine has Stryker.
- I can't think of any for Ahab or Mueller though.
Edited by ACW on Mar 4th 2022 at 8:22:56 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
- Things Seen & Heard: Reverend Jonah Smit was a vicious misogynist responsible for his wife's untimely death. Returning as an evil spirit, Jonah manipulates evil men into killing their wives, most recently whispering in the ear of the sleazy George Claire to manipulate him into killing everyone who knows of his forged academic credentials and brutally murdering his own wife.
Goku Black
Tbf those two are pretty minor bad guys ?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Fabian Cortez
Reverend Jonah Smit
Abigail Worthington
Belcorra
Master Mold
Wardner Sutter and Edna
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Also, wait, speaking of Ahab: Is the entry for his Earth-811 version or Earth-616? That matters for placement.
Barb / Temporary Kylo
It sounds like its for the 811 version, as the 616 version is said to be actively terrified of becoming like the Mutant hunting Ahab and trying to avoid it happening.
@Beast
XD, so Sorry you had to go through that movie Bud.
to Fabian
Goku Black
Earth-811. He was a character who permantly made it to 616. Extermiantion in his entry takes place in 616.
His 616 incarnation has standards in that he despises his 811 version.
Edited by miraculous on Mar 4th 2022 at 5:50:47 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
TCM is getting bad? Ya' don't say!
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Well then I'll move him to the other folder with canon immigrants, and:
- Dr. Roderick "Rory" Campbell, in the dark future of Earth-811, became a monstrous cyborg named Ahab. Responsible for the Hounds program, Ahab tortures mutants into his obedient dogs and uses them to track down and convert or murder other mutants. Ahab attempts to do this to the child Franklin Richards, even trying to convert his family, returning with his Hounds to also hunt down his arch-nemesis Rachel Summers and wipe out the X-Men. Ahab later manages to incorporate psychic powers with a Hound, able to inject memories of horrific torture to shape his victims more efficiently, attempting to exterminate mutantkind and whoever else gets in his way.
Lies and Violence!
One last proposal for the day:
Magnus Chase and the Gods of Asgard is a book series in the Percy Jackson universe, centered around the titular son of the god Frey as he works to prevent Ragnarok — the Norse apocalypse, basically.
Who are Surt & Fenris Wolf?
The lord of the Fire Giants and the wolf son of Loki respectively, Surt and Fenris are the main villains of the first novel. Long story short, Fenris was raised by the Aesir after they learned of his existence, but he quickly turned savage and had to be chained down on a magical island to prevent him from going on a rampage. Unfortunately, his bonds started to loosen over the years. Many came to his island, sometimes to test their skill and sometimes to check his bonds, but all were killed by the wolf. After finally getting his muzzle off, Fenris was able to whisper into the minds of others, manipulating events for his eventual escape.
The problem with this is that Fenris' escape will set off Ragnarok. Naturally, a lot of people don't want this... but not Surt. Reaching out to the Fire Giant, Fenris proposed that Surt steal the Sword of Summer, one of the only weapons sharp enough to cut through his remaining bonds. Surt, all too eager to bathe the Nine Realms in fire and kill his hated enemy Frey, agreed. Additionally, Fenris sends some of his monster wolf children to kill Magnus' mother, wanting to "season" him before he inevitably gets involved with everything.
Surt opens the series hunting down Magnus, causing massive explosions around Boston and threatening to incinerate a bunch of random civilians unless he's given the sword. They fight and end up mutually killing each other — Magnus has molten asphalt thrown into his stomach while Surt is stabbed with the sword. Due to reasons I'm too tired to go into, they both get better.
Fast-forward to the climax of the book, when our heroes arrive with new bonds for the wolf. Fenris mocks Magnus for his mother's death, prodding at him and his friends so they'll get close enough for him to attack. Surt also appears, killing the Valkyrie Gunilla and attempting to claim the sword so he can free the wolf. Yadda yadda yadda, more fights, Fenris is tied up in new chains and Surt is sent back to hell.
Surt makes a small reappearance in a short story, trying to recruit a bunch of minor gods to side with him on Ragnarok, but it doesn't really go anywhere and, due to shenanigans, he's left impotently tied up in his own lair.
Any Mitigating Qualities?
Zilch.
Do They Meet The Heinous Standard?
Ending the world? Okay, not exactly a new concept for this series, but still pretty bad.
Oh, but wait! They're not just trying to end our world. They're trying to end eight others. Both are gleefully aware of this, and are equally bad — Fenris came up with the whole plan and sadistically mocks the murdered loved ones of the heroes, while Surt just wants to burn everything alive. Both are definite keepers.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to them.
This is the same series with Nero, isn't it?
Are those 3 the only keepers so far?
And Nero STILL needs to be added to the Drafts.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Lies and Violence!
Pretty sure it’s just those three at the moment, yeah. Still confident Gaea makes it, but she’s the Big Bad for an entire series and I currently don’t have the time to reread all that.
Surt and Fenris.
Goku Black
Surt and Fenris.
Are you giving them separate write ups?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Going on a roadtrip today, so to get this one out of the way ?
Texas Chainsaw Massacre (2022), yet another TCM sequel that ignores the previous movies. A movie that tries to avoid the issues with Texas Chainsaw 3D, but just repackages them with a more explicit Time Skip, making Leatherface more absurdly badass for someone his age, and a cast with one or two likable characters. The movie that tries to hype up the return of Sally Hardesty, having become this badass Texas Ranger in a copycat of Halloween (2018)...only to give her the Halloween: Resurrection treatment.
No one counts. Leatherface is the sole villain, and has his usual mitigating qualities, plus he cares about his caretaker. There's no real secondary antagonist, let alone that even comes close to the heinous standard. None of the other Sawyer's are even name dropped.
Edited by Beast on Mar 4th 2022 at 3:41:05 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."