Subpages cleanup: Complete Monster

Okay so I found the short film with Knull, like his original he's an Omnicidal Maniac who wants to plunge the universe in darkness and in the film he killed many celestials. He later abandons his own creation, the Klyntar, on a planet once they are no longer useful to him.

Now in the same video, what makes me pause on Venom counting is the fact it was revealed he was made for the sole purpose of helping the Klyntar to plunge the universe in darkness and dominate all he sees for the Klyntar race which gives me pause on his Agency.

Plus the Klyntar themselves seem to have a Freudian Excuse of being abandoned by their maker, then legitimately try to be in peace and harmony with another species and try to improve them only to be rejected and had one of their own kind to be killed.

Edited by Powermaster201 on Sep 25th 2021 at 1:12:49 PM

No need; I'll just fix it in a Sandbox.

Also, for Son of Samson, looks like it's Kenamun and not Kenamon.

I'm cool with Knull keeping but...quite a bit less so with this iteration of Venom keeping with the added backstory.

Also. Speaking of Jonah Hex.

Next candidate. This one is the from the very, very first comic Hex appeared in, predating his actual self-named ongoing series. From Weird Western Tales #12, we have Mr. Craig.

Who is Mr. Craig? What has he done?

First citizen of the town Hex blows into in his first appearance, Mr. Craig is also an evil racist who sets Jonah Hex against the local Native tribe, telling Hex that they're butchers and murderers. Unsurprisingly he's not telling the truth; when Hex actually reaches the nearest Native village, he sees dozens upon dozens of bodies wrapped up in blankets.

Mr. Craig has been selling blankets infected with smallpox to the Native villages; half of the overall population from four villages is dead when Hex rolls in. Craig isn't leaving it there, either; to exterminate all the Natives in the region, Mr. Craig has his men come down on the weakened tribes to slaughter 'em all. Nobody is spared, not old men or women or even children. A little girl that Hex befriended dies in his arms.

When Hex returns to the town to exact vengeance, he sees that Craig has already doomed himself and the entire innocent town he lives in as well; Craig's ruthless and reckless use of smallpox brought the infection to his town. Hex seems to pity Craig and offers him an antidote...

...then shoots it out of his hand and leaves the miserable fuck on his deathbed.

Any mitigating factors?

Craig was the first baddie Hex fought, and he was one of the nastiest—by the end of his run, he's fatally infected dozens of innocents with smallpox, genocides the shit out of hundreds more, and ruins his entire town through his poorly thought-out use of the virus. Nothing to really talk about.

Conclusion?

Keeper.

Edited by Scraggle on Sep 25th 2021 at 11:22:00 AM

Easy yes to Craig.

to Craig.

Knull and Craig

Cut Venom

Sure to Craig and Knull

Unless I get more info that shows Venom has agency, I say cut him due to concerning moral agency.

Edited by Powermaster201 on Sep 25th 2021 at 1:54:19 PM

Man, seems like a Ma-Ma situation.

to Knull and Craig. Cut Venom.

Edited by YobabyColin on Sep 25th 2021 at 1:36:05 PM

Craig and Knull.

Ugh cut Venom. He seems even kinda proud of his race and disgusted that Knull abandoned them. Off agency aside...

oh yeah I forget to also mentioned that AND the fact he was legitimately mad in the fact an alien killed one of his kind.

Okay, so I'm gonna jump in the ring with my first Hex potential. Not from All-Star Western (though I'll be checking that out soon), but from the '77 series. From what I hear, this is one that the Ravscraglight trio have been ping-ponging for a while now, so I figure he's worth the discussion so we can at least say someone did it.

I give you the bad guy from issue #26, "Death Race to Cholera Bend"

Who is Dr. Roy Jameson? What does he do?

Dr. Jameson (if that's his real name) is the assistant to Dr. Cranston, who both discover a cholera outbreak in Comanche Bend. While they develop a cure, Cranston wants to make it free, while Jameson wants to profit from it. As a result of this disagreement, while they're on the way to the town, Jameson lures Cranston into a trap with bandits and has him killed, spinning a sob story for Jonah Hex when he arrives on the scene. Jameson pretends to be looking out for the afflicted village while he and Jonah travel, only for him to inevitably betray Jonah and attempt to have his two men execute him. While he can't stomach the sight and hangs back, when he thinks that Jonah's dead, he executes his own two guys so he doesn't have to split and moves on to the town.

In the town, he makes everyone there fork over $100 (something like $650 when this came out in 1979), outright telling someone who complains that he can pay up or suffer a slow and painful death by Cholera. At the end, as he's raked in a small fortune from the townspeople, he realizes that he's contracted the disease himself, and as he gets cramps, headaches, and low pulse, Jonah arrives, and after taunting the guy with a Hope Spot, hands him a vial of cure but shoots the vial, leaving him trying to lick it off the floor as Jonah leaves.

Any mitigating factors? Freudian Excuse?

We're not looking at a complex guy - he charges overboard for basic medical supplies and kills/attempts to kill literally everyone else he meets besides that. This isn't the issue - on the other hand...

Is he heinous enough?

This is where discussion will need to be had, because for the flagship series, his niche is unique enough to give him a leg to stand on thanks to his "victim" count, but he's hugging the line no matter which side we think he's on - I need to be very clear here.

On the one hand, he neither starts the outbreak nor does he make it worse - he's just taking advantage of an already existing situation for his own ends. Additionally, even though he charges extravagantly for the cure, we get no indication that anyone in the town ended up dying from his actions. In the end, his personal kill count comes down to the doctor, his two partners, and an attempted execution of Jonah, which is obviously nowhere near enough on its own - and if that's all we hold him accountable for, then he's a no. On the other hand, while he didn't start the virus, he's still putting all of the people in the town in additional danger thanks to his actions. In essence, he's holding the entire town for their own ransom, while the alternative is a 100% self-acknowledge slow and painful death from cholera - which, thanks to the bastard getting it himself at the end, we can acknowledge firsthand; the headache, cramps, and slowing pulse we see him get is the same fate he would have given to everyone in the entire town if they didn't pay up.

I think of it like the original Tyrone King, whose biggest crime is also one of inaction - he lets Phenotrans start the outbreak, purely because he can take advantage of the chaos and profit from it. Now, obviously the scale is smaller and we're not talking about a full-on Zombie Apocalypse, but the principle is the same - he's letting an incredibly bad thing that threatens a shit ton of people happen purely for the chance to profit off of it, which in this case is actually kind of worse because he's profiting directly from his victims instead of casinos. For another comparison, it's almost like the exact opposite of Littlefinger - while Littlefinger starts the bad thing but then stands back to let it play out, Jameson sees the bad thing happen and rushes in to take advantage of it at the potential expense of a town full of people.

Basically, it would take literally zero effort to fix the situation - all he'd have to do is show up with the doctor and give everyone the cure and the problem would be solved. Instead, he not only kills the doctor to take the cure, and kills his own guys so he doesn't have to split it, but he then overcharges everyone for the cure, and the only reason why nobody dies (that we know of) is because he extorts everyone with the threat of a slow and painful death. So while he doesn't end up killing anyone in the town and he didn't start the problem to begin with, he takes advantage of it to hold the lives of everyone inside in his own hands, all for the sake of a little profit, meaning that while he didn't actively put them in danger to start, he goes out of his way to put them in danger after the fact. Personally, I know how awkward crimes by inaction are, but I'm inclined to hold this one against him as harshly as we can.

Final verdict?

I dunno, maybe I'll be alone here, but I'm honestly inclined to say yes. Either way, he was worth the talk, and however people would like to vote is completely up to you, so what do you think?

Hey, Jameson! I'm abstaining on Jameson. Leaning slightly on "yes" TBH. My issue with him is that for as awful as attaching a price to the antidote is, it's not confirmed to actually kill anyone or contribute to anyone's death on its own. What is there, though, is Doc cheerfully rubbing it into an entire town's face that they can pay up or die agonizingly, in almost those exact terms. For his lack of a body count, the comic's not pretending he's anything but smugly content with the risk of mass agonizing death—but is "risk" going far enough here?

I'll do my Boom and my Hex guys in a batch after my fourth and last keeper, but Neverwhere:

• Neverwhere,
  • Messires Croup and Vandemar, the Old Firm, are the resident monsters for hire of the story and easily two of the most twisted and dreaded creatures of the fantastical London Below. Croup is an erudite sadist who waxes on the incomparable beauty of a piece of fine china before gleefully destroying it, while Vandemar is a grim, savage, man-eating beast, but both are equally sadistic and cruel. Croup cheerfully admits he and his partner have no redeeming qualities and no moral standards whatsoever, which they prove time and time again by slaughtering entire monasteries; savagely murdering their own minions; torturing the Marquis de Carabas to death; and taking the lives of Door's entire family.
  • Croup and Vandermar's mysterious employer, the angel Islington, is a being drunk on its own glory and vanity. A vain and unbelievably narcissistic entity beneath its serene façade who has "traveled so far beyond right and wrong [that it] couldn't see them with a telescope on a nice clear night," Islington was tasked with watching over Atlantis. Islington instead destroyed the entire civilization as a testament to its unbelievable ego, shrieking that they deserved when when it's exposed. Pretending to be the heroes' enlightened ally in the present day, Islington is the one who commissioned Croup and Vandemar to murder Door's family and manipulated Door to him so she could open the gates of Heaven, allowing Islington to conquer its kin and exact revenge out of nothing more than spite for its exile.

Edited by Scraggle on Sep 25th 2021 at 11:52:44 AM

Reserving Extraction 2 by the way. Teaser dropped earlier and I'm watching it now.

For what it's worth, it's not almost his exact terms, it is his exact terms:

Edited by STARCRUSHER99 on Sep 25th 2021 at 1:52:43 PM

Craig and Knull.

Also, with Dolph having recently been bounced apparently, his reservations such as Jurassic World: Dominion are up for grabs. I…MIGHT reserve it.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Sep 25th 2021 at 10:58:26 AM

I'm also abstaining on Jameson. Massive DICK, but not sure he's QUITE CM-level. I wouldn't complain either way.

BTW, Scraggle, mind doing Boon this week so I can get him and Lighty's King keeper together?

Knull.

Cut Venom.

Craig & Roy

with the short, yes to Knull but no to Venom

I have a candidate for Complete Monster.

Lila Rossi from the Miraculous Ladybug fanfiction series CONSEQUENCES. She is a canon character in the series, but she is much worse in the fanfic series.

CONSEQUENCES

Lila Rossi is a true blue bitch who bullies Nice Girl Marinette and works with the Big Bad. In the show, she has yet to receive karma. Like many fans, OminousPredictions wanted her to suffer for her actions and created the CONSEQUENCES series, where in each installment she gets punished severely for her actions.

'Lila Rossi and her Actions

Lila was bad enough in the canon series, but in CONSEQUENCES, she’s much worse. She forces herself on a boy because he refused to date her after threatening his friends, set up a blind, aging woman to slip on water and take a bad fall, putting her in a coma, steals work from others and claims it as her own, tries to frame others, tries to attack Marinette with a knife or broken glass a few times, threatens others to do her bidding by promising to smear them and turn their friends against them, bullies little kids, and even teams up with the Big Bad to defeat heroes, even after knowing he plans to hurt others and destroy the city if need be to reach his goals, and even tries to kill the heroes, the only people who stand between him and people’s safety. She has a long history of victims who she ruined, as she is willing to turn friends against one another, manipulate people into bullying people they cared for, frame them for rape and drug possession, and even seriously injure them over petty slights, like trying to expose her lies to people she’s manipulating, or simply not giving her what she wants. But what really made me think Lila a perfect candidate was how she reacted when she found out one past victim tried to commit suicide after she ruined his life. Not only did she not feel sorry, she actually felt HAPPY that she hurt him to that extent, feeling like she had the power over someone’s life, and started thinking of herself as a god who decides who lives and dies at her will. And it becomes her new ultimate goal, to push her victims to suicide.

Redeeming Qualities

There are ZERO mitigating factors for Lila in CONSEQUENCES. She never once shows a shred of remorse for anything she does. In fact, she actually takes joy in her victim’s suffering. She thinks she deserves everything she wants handed to her wrapped up in pretty paper and tied with a bow, and if someone so much as says no to her, she destroys their life without hesitation or regret. There’s no Freudian Excuse either, as she has a kind, loving mother who is always horrified by her actions and is willing to let her pay the highest price of need be. There’s no motivation behind Lila’s actions other than extreme entitlement and barbaric cruelty.

Other Characters

None of the other characters’ actions in CONSEQUENCES even come close to Lila’s. Most of them are caring, compassionate people who are disgusted at Lila’s actions and regret trusting her when the truth comes out. Even while they still believe her, none of them are manipulated so far as to hurt others at all, much less to her extent, and they are kind and trusting to the point where none of them can even fathom the true depths of Lila’s evil. Even the Big Bad will not go as far as Lila, not willing to murder the heroes to defeat them, and getting back at Lila for assaulting his child.

Final Verdict

All in all, Lila Rossi from the CONSEQUENCES series is a manipulative, entitled, two-faced, un-remorseful, heartless, narcissistic Hate Sink who puts Revenge Before Reason and ruins lives beyond repair for even the smallest of offenses. If that’s not a Complete Monster, I don’t know what is.

Reading this just gives me pause, doesn't help that I was in form this fic exist only to bahb on the character which you confirmed yourself. I'm gonna give a no to Rossi unfortunately.

Edited by Powermaster201 on Sep 25th 2021 at 2:52:05 PM

Ehhhh, Abstain on Venom, it's not entirely clear how truthful he's being(Certain way he words things, like saying when the priest who protested the Symbiotes originally saying 'Spreading his lies' and saying that the Kyntar who tried to have him mix with them was 'Only trying to help!' Wich could indicate he's saying things from a skewed POV) But if we assume he is being truthful...Hes not really different from the rest of the Kyntar, they were created in the same way to be weapons to Knull, and they apparently got redeeming qualities. But I am concerned on if he's legit loyal to his race, with the stuff the others mentioned or him calling them 'Family'

Yes to Craig.

Lila in CONSEQUENCES

Edited by OrrorSANESS on Sep 25th 2021 at 11:56:05 AM

Lila. I don't want to upvote a fic that seems to only exist as character bashing