During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Veffir Voon Iyax and Admiral Evar.
The wifi here sucks
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
We most certainly did
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
ACW: X-Men Film Series: Laura is also now a redirect. I think she is mentioned in the Logan entries.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Chuck Manson, Hayato, Evar and Veffir Voon.
I don't know the process for this, but there's a link that needs updating on the locked Monster.RWBY Fan Works page. Do I request it be changed here, or can I make the request directly to the Locked Pages thread?
The [[Characters/RWBYRavenBranwen]] needs either changing to [[Characters/RWBYAnima]] or removing. There are at least two instances of the link on the page that I can identify (one in the Forged Destiny entry and one in the fourth entry of the Ruby and Nora group of examples). I don't know if any other examples of the link exist.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Jul 22nd 2021 at 7:00:26 PM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yeah, she is. I changed it to the Comic X23.
Already done. I used It's All About Me for the Forged Destiny one and Chronic Backstabbing Disorder for the other.
BTW, if a redirect is a redirect for a page with only a few entries (Zelda/Link/Ganon; Lupin III), I just leave it as is.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
for Chuck Manson, Vefir, Evar and the Mok Swagger image.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
for Osanai.
To future's point on Treasure Planet, I briefly thought they were going two-for-two to see if Flint would qualify as a CM/MB crossover. But yeah, Evah, excellent find overall.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
the bestest CM Evar!
Edited by MasterN on Jul 22nd 2021 at 11:59:20 AM
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Professor Gigachad
Cool to see the fanfic villain I proposed added, but while looking at the Fan Works page I noticed that this was on it.
- South Park fanfic Within These Walls: Mad Hatter and Red King are a pair of pedophilic killers who mainly prey upon children deliverers. They would lure these deliverers to their hideout before carving their signatures, Xs and Os, on their eyes before raping and killing them; Skyla was the only one to have survived their depravity, while they killed her family. They're also willing to target children who aren't deliverers, such as when they were raping Karen McCormick and carving an X onto her left eye before attempting to kill her.
I don't think that South Park is really a show that is conducive to CM's (even if a Fan Work) and the fact that they are pedophilic Serial Rapists makes me really skeptical this is not for shock. I also can't seem to find the original EP.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Yeah to Veffir, Evar, and Osanai.
I have to agree. I mean it is possible they count, but I also can't find the EP anywhere.
I mean so is Victorious, but look how many are there. Maybe just do a read through and see if it’s to shlocky or not.
Edited by nwotyzal on Jul 22nd 2021 at 12:58:50 PM
Professor Gigachad
Sure, I will take a look into It I don't have anything else to do anyway and the fic is not very long (though not so short I can claim it doesn't have a substantial story).
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
Caesar
Mmmm....Osanai is tough, he's a disgusting creep but while he is a part of the Chairman's plans, he's not really focused on as a key player leaving mainly his tormenting and attempted rape of a victim his only real standout.
Now then! With big thanks to 43110 for recommending me this one and helping me iron out the kinks in details, here's my Legend of Galactic Heroes post, coming from the first season of the show:
Who is Baron Flegel? What has he done?
The snot-nosed, smug noble nephew of current CM Prince Otho von Braunschweig, Baron Flegel's childish cruelty is only matched in nastiness by his godawful haircut.
Some years before the proper start of the series, Flegel lead the torture of the young admiral Wolfgang Mittermeyer as "punishment" for Mittermeyer assaulting a noble when the creep tried to rape a woman. Flegel used an interrogator armed with an electric whip to torment Mittermeyer before Flegel personally beat the man with his own two fists, just enjoying getting to torment someone of lesser class than himself. Luckily for Mittermeyer, he was soon enough rescued properly by Reinhard von Lohengramm, and this kick-started Flegel's personal hatred for ol' Reinhard.
As the series kicks off, Flegel's hatred of Reinhard continues and he decides to get even with Reinhard in the worst way possible: by targeting the man's innocent sister, Annerose. Flegel approaches the mentally unstable former lover of current Kaiser Friedrich IV, a woman named Susanna, and uses his knowledge of her last mistreatments and current unstable mindset to manipulate her into becoming his puppet, convincing her to kidnap and kill Annerose then dump her body with a "commoner" to ruin her reputation and hit Reinhard where it hurts.
Flegel dispatches a gang of crooks to assist Susanna in the kidnapping of Annerose and murder of her escorts...later, when Flegel learns Susanna failed and Annerose lives? He promptly orders the criminals he hired be disposed of to prevent anything from leading back to him, and uses his connections to his uncle Braunschweig to pin the entire scheme on Susanna and have her publicly executed.
Soon enough, when Braunschweig stages a civil war in an attempt to wipe out Reinhard and others against his rule, Flegel serves as his right-hand man, pushing for more death and encouraging his uncle's brutal tactics. When Braunschweig prepares to nuke Westerland and wipe out its population of millions? Flegel is smugly onboard and demands the execution of an officer who tries to dissuade Braunschweig from the plan, threatening the same fate to anyone else who crosses himself or his uncle.
With Westerland wiped out and Reinhard's forces enclosing, the strategically competent Flegel leads his forces in wiping out as many forces of Reinhard's as possible while falling for the most obvious of traps and ambushes, Flegel losing his composure more and more while demanding for the deaths of anyone in his way. He cheerfully hopes to personally behead Reinhard and hand it over to Braunschweig to use his skull as a wine glass.
That, of course, will never happen thanks to Flegel's dumbass war tactics, and even when he realizes he's totally outgunned by Reinhard? He just screams at his flagship of troops to go on a suicide run and kill as many Reinhard loyalists as he can in a "blaze of glory", uncaring of his horrified troops who realize the insanity of it. Flegel meets his end when one of his commanding officers refuses to follow through on the psychopathic attack and Flegel attempts to gun him down for it, only getting himself shot in the process by another of his officers, and Flegel dies muttering "Long...live...the Empire..."
Freudian Excuse or other redeeming features?
Laughable. 43 and I call him Space!Joffrey for a reason, the dude is a total Hate Sink asshole convinced of his own noble superiority above all else, a spoiled psycho who values putting the "commoners" in their place above all else. There's not a single scene of him that isn't him doing or saying something horrible.
Even his loyalty to the Empire and desire to go out in a "blaze of glory" is nothing but his superiority complex and childish dreams of being a war legend. He's a nutjob who subscribes to a fascist dictatorship mindset of oppression of lower classes and extermination of those who cross him, dude's a dick.
Heinousness?
Flegel's got some nasty personal villainy to him with the shit he pulls on Susanna and Mittermeyer—manipulating the former's mental instability and broken heart to target the innocent Annerose then Susanna and her conspirators murdered to cover it up, torturing and beating the latter for an extended time for stopping a noble's attempted rape—but you then throw in being the most bloodthirsty lunatic in Braunschweig's circle, advocating with glee the nuking of Westerland, the execution of anyone who questions it, trying to massacre Reinhard's forces and sacrifice thousands of his own men just to satisfy his delusional "blaze of glory" death? Flegel passes with ease.
Final Verdict?
Easy Keeper, and thanks again to 43 for recommending me the prick!
Edited by Ravok on May 20th 2023 at 9:36:43 AM
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Yeah to Flegel.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Flegel.
MCU: Mysterio - Quentin Beck is also now just a redirect.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Ultimate Moral Compass
Flegel‘s haircut. Oh, and him too, I guess.
Goku Black
Flegel
Yes to Baron Flegel
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I figured that would happen with Beck. Ravok, he was your candidate. Narcissist work for his name?
Flegel...leaning yes, but how involved is he exactly with the Nuke 'em plan?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Professor Gigachad
Alright I just finished reading that fanfic Within These Walls and to my surprise, the problem didn't end up being shock value in fact the true problem is these guys literally never appear in the story once zero personality to speak of all we see are the aftermath of one of their murders with the rest being completely offscreen and only mentioned in a news broadcast. No motive no personality absolutely nothing to speak of this is like approving a Generic Doomsday Villain.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Wait, we never see them in person? Okay, THAT could be a problem.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Professor Gigachad
Actually, I was a bit wrong there we do have the story talking about one of their rapes but they still have no motive other than just being pedophilic rapists and they only have one victim with most of their crimes being offscreen.
Edited by Ordeaux26 on Jul 22nd 2021 at 1:30:09 AM
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
The Emperor of Evil!
Cut them then if we don't even see them at all.
Sigh someone added and readded and entry to SuperMarioLogan. Pretty sure we downvoted this work....
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."