Old Magnificent Bastard thread
Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard proposal thread! This is the thread where new Magnificent Bastard examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential mitigating features will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the MB subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite MB" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from other parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for MB equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, their goals and methodology, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some characters, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
How are they Magnificent?
This is the point where you highlight the character's brilliance. How to they convey their intelligence and charm to the audience? What makes them stand out among the crowd? What are their goals and how do they go about accomplishing them? This part welcomes a lot of creative thinking — not everyone has to be a Machiavellian Diabolical Mastermind to be worth considering here! This is also the time to showcase how the character can think on their feet if it's necessary.
How are they a Bastard? How are they not too bad?
What kinds of moral lines is this character willing to cross for the sake of their goal? Are they willing to let innocents die? Start wars? Commit crimes? The character has to show some kind of unscrupulousness in order to count as a "Bastard". Notably, this character does not necessarily have to be the villain, and an Anti-Hero can cross the line if they're immoral enough, but they have to be immoral somehow.
This is also the section where you then state your case for why they're not too bad. Perhaps their good intentions help mitigate their crimes. Perhaps others are shown to be much worse than them. Perhaps they're prone to Pet the Dog moments or are even fighting on behalf of loved ones. Whatever the case, there are certain lines that an MB can't cross, but as long as their villainy is reasonable for their goal, they can be considered.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:40:56 AM
Woagh
Ight, just finished Super Mario Bros. Wonder, shoot me a PM if anyone wants to discuss. Think we might have a discussion here!
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Rejected UAC Marine
Best of wishes, Bull
If this means another Bowser then I'm already excited 
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
I have a proposal from a Music Video
What’s the work?
"Beer For My Horses" is a music video of the song of the same name. It follows detective Toby Keith and his Plucky Comic Relief sidekick named Stu played by Corin Nemec as they investigate the case of the Midtown Ripper, a Serial Killer who’s been murdering prostitutes. They can’t get profile on the guy so they call in detective Willie Nelson
Who is he and what has he done?
This version of Wille Nelson is a retired police sheriff and the father of Toby Keith
Willie is first introduced when Toby calls him for help on the Midtown Ripper case, Nelson is initially skeptical but agrees to help if they come to his house.
When Keith and Stu go to his house they find a lot of things from his previous cases. They then proceed to investigate the Midtown Ripper case and find evidence linking a man named Jerod Turner to the crime.
To draw him out they hatch a scheme by dressing Stu as a prostitute to lure out the Ripper, the scheme works and Turner comes to kill Stu.
Keith and Turner have a brief chase scene and fight each other, but just as the Ripper is about to kill Keith, Nelson comes in with several other cops and arrest Turner once and for all.
They then finish the video toasting to their victory and riding off into the sunset on hoses.
Magnificent?
Willie Nelson is a detective with lots of successful arrests, finds the culprit, hatches a plan to catch him, and brings in a group of police officers to arrest him. I think that makes it for a five minute video.
Bastard?
He is willing to use Stu as bait to catch the Serial Killer
Final verdict?
I think Yes, unless someone else has any other opinions
In honor of Akira Toriyama
Woagh
Alright, so nearly a month after the game came out, i finally finished this game. We've got a particularly wonderful candidate in store so lets stop wasting time!
What's the work?
Super Mario Bros. Wonder is the latest 2D Super Mario Bros. game, dedicated to mixing up the usual formula by making it much more Denser and Wackier. In it, Mario and friends (and Nabbit) are invited to the Flower Kingdom by Prince Florian. Surely this would be a nice, relaxing vacation for our heroes.
So of course Bowser had to screw that up.
Who is Bowser and What does he do?
Just as Florian is showing Mario and Co. one of their Royal Seeds, which contains a bunch of "Wonder Energy", our boy Bowser shows up, accompanied by Jr. and Kamek. Taking advantage of everyone's surprise, he promptly charges straight into the Seed, merging himself with it and Florian's castle to become an Eldritch Abomination. He then flies away while cursing the lands residents, The Poplins, to be trapped in their houses alongside their smaller Wonder Seeds. From here, "Castle Bowser" (idk if it has an official name) plops himself in the middle of the land and covers himself in ghostly Piranha Plants to prevent anyone from entering him.
Y'see, Bowser has something particularly grand planned: he plans on absorbing enough Wonder Energy to make music so good, he'll hypnotize the universe into obeying him, gleefully calling them his "captive audience". Knowing that the rest of the Royal Seeds are key to destroying his shield, he has Junior go to various locations and cause trouble, Kamek to ambush our heroes with battleships, and himself set up various Piranha Plants to guard key levels and castles, all to stall the heroes while he charges up.
While Mario and Pals manage to overcome these challenges and destroy Bowser's barrier, he's already completed charging up and challenges them to come onto him (I'm sorry, i could not make that sound right if i tried![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
). On him, they find some of the game's hardest (non-optional) levels in the game, all while Bowser treats the whole thing like a pre-game show to his upcoming "concert". This all culminates in the final level, where first Bowser throws a bunch of level Wonder Seed gimmicks at you before he himself fights you head-on, manipulating the stage to make it harder to hit him. Ultimately Mario and his friends manage to best King Koopa, who upon defeat loses all his powers. End game.
Is he Magnificent?
This game basically takes Bowser's heavy metal shtick and runs as far as it possibly can with it, and even as an inhuman abomination it's still very much the same Affably Evil Large Ham we all know as he plans on conquering the universe in the most bombastic way possible. Bowser is shown to take more precautions than he usually does for a 2D Mario game, focusing on slowing down the heroes while he harnesses more powerful before showing that he knows how to make 4-star courses, capping it all off with a creative final battle with him. By the usual Excuse Plot of these games he should be pretty good.
Only slight issue is that, as usual, his defeat's a bit silly, but eh we've allowed much zanier fates and it's more focused on Kamek and Junior suffering, so imo it's doesn't overshadow his feats.
Is he a Bastard?
Hypnotizing the universe with rock music. Eyup.
Okay, for specifics, for as over-the-top as his goal is he's ultimately just committing his usual crimes of causing havok in a kingdom, nowhere near too bad.
Overall?
So how's he looking?
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Goku Black
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
bowser
Is Willie bad enough. It sounds like the guy he endangers is you know aware of it. .
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yeah but still he endangered an innocent persons life to catch a Serial Killer
My issue is Stu agrees to dress up to lure out the killer. He’s a willing participant in the scheme, not someone being tricked by a Well-Intentioned Extremist. Yes to Bowser though.
Rejected UAC Marine
to Bowser. My big boy just keeps winning!!!
to Bowser again and the 1st Megatron quote.
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Bowser. I see what you guys are saying, I just thought he was worth the EP.
Caesar
I dig the quotes, Wet! Yes to Bowser
- Spider-Man (PS4):
- Yuri Watanabe starts off as a police captain ally to Spider-Man who uses her considerable resources and wit to help the hero fight crime. After witnessing the brutal deaths of her squadmates at the hands of Hammerhead, however, Yuri takes the law into her own hands and swears vengeance on all villains who think they are untouchable. Becoming the vigilante "Wraith", she slaughters her way through Hammerhead's forces and nearly executes the gang lord until Spider-Man interferes. Later leading Spider-Man on a wild goose chase to find a missing Hammerhead enforcer who Wraith has already killed, Wraith begins disrupting the operations of the Flame's cult. Wraith dismantles several of the cult's lairs with Spider-Man's help, and though she duels her former ally when he refuses to let her murder the Flame, Wraith ultimately puts aside their moral differences and helps Spider-Man save many innocents from the Flame, even pulling the hero himself out of a narrow brush with death.
Wonder Bowser
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Bowser (just curious, what's his defeat?)
Abstain on Willie
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Caesar
To coincide with Vader, btw, I got a couple I wanna discuss from Star Wars: Visions!
Who is Bichan? What has he done?
- Appearing in Journey to the Dark Head, Bichan—voiced by Daniel Dae Kim—is a badass Sith Lord who is introduced tearing his way through an entire squad of 8 Jedi. Bichan not only uses superior combat capabilities, but also his cleverly-utilized whip attached to his lightsaber hilt to surprise his opponents and strike them dead while they're distracted by his blade.
- Cornering the only survivor, Jedi Padawan Toul, Bichan easily disarms the boy and takes note of his immense rage and hatred. Remarking that he predicts Toul is better suited for the Dark Side, Bichan spares Toul with but a scars on his mouth to remember their duel by, promising to one day meet again and convince Toul to join the Sith.
- Years on, Bichan by total coincidence winds up on the same planet as Toul. Sensing Toul and his partner, pilot Ara, on their quest to the titular "dark head" to destroy the supposed monument of the Dark Side, Bichan pursues the duo in his fighter craft, tracking and damaging their ship so they are forced to eject. Even when Toul and Ara manage to damage Bichan's ship, he maneuvers himself to land atop their landspeeder craft, beginning to duel Toul and try to sway him to embrace the Dark Side.
- As they arrive at the monument and Ara heads off to set the explosives, Bichan takes off his mask and cloak to show Toul he is serious about their duel. He fights and toys with the boy, encouraging him to weaponize his hatred in their fight while chiding him that his and Ara's quest is pointless—revealing that the "dark head" is, like all things in the galaxy, equal parts light and dark, and damaging it would matter none. Bichan ultimately disarms Toul with a clever use of the Force on the terrain around them, and offers him one last chance for a We Can Rule Together.
- Luckily, Ara uses the explosives she was going to use on the monument to fire at Bichan, and though he avoids a critical hit by moving them away with the Force, their explosion still knocks him off-balance long enough for Toul to strike a last-ditch critical blow, killing Bichan.
Is he magnificent?
Absolutely. Bichan is a totally killer Sith who mows down a group of 8 Jedi in the opening with relative ease, cleverly using his whip-attachment in a pragmatic way to surprise and get the upper hand. He admires and spares Toul so that he can one day tempt the boy to the Dark Side, and later tracks Toul and Ara with his ship, upstaging Ara's piloting skills and being a Super-Persistent Predator in hunting them. He is ultimately killed by Toul, but it's only thanks to a last-second distraction by Ara, and Bichan never has time for a Villainous Breakdown of any sort...he is utterly charming and deviously affable in his every scene, and only has time to make an Oh, Crap! face when he realizes Toul's saber is slicing his head off.
Is he a bastard?
Sith Lord who kills multiple heroic Jedi, scars Toul and tries to tempt him to the Dark Side to conquer the galaxy...which is just everyday Sith behavior, so nothing particularly bad.
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Not the Eye
Happy to Bowser and Bichan
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Nelson
Goku Black
bichan
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Bichan is really Bitchin’ to him
Rejected UAC Marine
After the credits, Kamek tries keeping the disabled Clown Car afloat with both Bowser and Jr. inside, and it ends up crashing into a hill
Edited by ImSpidey2 on Nov 18th 2023 at 11:00:09 AM
That being said, I have no source.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Bichan
Ah fairs, doesn't sound any worse than the other Bowser MB defeats.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Aight I did a search for this guy's name and nothing popped up so I presume he's not been brought up. Was watching Inglorious Basterds and that got me thinking that Hans Landa...'s actor Christoph Waltz was in a movie I saw like 10 years ago when I was like 12.
What is the work? (Copied from the trope page)
Epic (2013) is animated fantasy adventure, based on William Joyce's The Leaf Men and the Brave Good Bugs. The film features a teenage girl, Mary Katherine (MK to her friends), who finds herself thrown into the world of the Leaf Men, protectors of the forest, and a battle "between the forces of good and evil".
Said evil forces are the Boggans who are out spreading the blight to spread throughout the forest. Their leader? Mandrake, played by Christoph Waltz with a weirdly charismatic performance behind it.
Who is Mandrake and what has he done?
Evil Overlord of the Boggans, Mandrake has only one desire, to upset the balance and have the rot rule the forest. Having his forces coordinate attacks to discover the leafmen's plans, Mandrake eventually plots a scheme to kill the queen of the forest to stop the birth of a new era of blooming—intending to rule over it all alongside his son Dagda. Having his forces attack the forest denizens during the ceremony where Queen Tara selects a new pod to continue the cycle, Mandrake has Dagda ordered to steal the while he goes to murder Tara. During the chase, Dagda gets fatally shot with an arrow, which makes Mandrake halt his chase and goes to his son although he still managed a fatal shot on Tara.
Furious over his son's death, Mandrake has his forces rot the forest—with ease due to the demise of Tara. Having the toad Bufo brought to him after hearing that Ronin was at his business along with the pod, Mandrake asks him about where Ronin's taking the pod. Bufo laughs at Mandrake and unknowingly mocks his son's demise by calling him an idiot general, making Mandrake drop the civilities and threatens Bufo with death under interrogation.
Wanting the pod for himself and using the information he got from Bufo, Mandrake bursts into Nim's tree and steals the pod from it—kidnapping the two slugs Mub and Grub when they say that they're the only ones who can watch it. At his lair, you hear the two slugs screaming in agony and pain...from Mandrake's stories in which he then reveals how he'll use the pod to have it bloom in darkness for it's power to destroy the forest for revenge. After the heroes sneak into Mandrake's lair to steal back the pod—in which Ronin uses himself as a diversion to lure the Boggans after him, Mandrake intercepts him and fights him. Noticing MK and Nod escaping with the pod, Mandrake just remarks how he's embarrassed for being overprepared for the situation and has his armies give chase to the heroes with them seemingly killing Ronin.
After the heroes escape and attempt to let the pod bloom under the moonlight, Mandrake has his fleet of bats swarm above the opening to blot out the ray of light to have the pod bloom in the dark. As the Leafmen armada combat the swarm, Mandrake uses the opportunity as they're distracted to make a beeline towards the pod. When he lands, Mandrake then effortlessly defeats the remaining guards and almost claims the pod for himself if not for the intervention of Ronin who's revealed to have fought his way out of Mandrake's lair. The two duel with Mandrake easily overtaking Ronin and goes for a fatal blow when Nod blocks the attack. With Mandrake's fleet gone due to the interference of MK's dad, the pod starts to bloom under the moonlight, Mandrake goes for one last attack before the duo repel him into a tree? As Mandrake lands, the tree then basically sucks him up and traps him within? Yeah bit out the blue. With Mandrake gone, the rot starts to revert throughout the forest.
Is he magnificent?
Thanks due to Christoph Waltz performance, Mandrake is a weirdly charismatic villain. His character page lists Affably Evil and while I wouldn't say he's that... he's not some malice dripping monster, there's a general sense of civility to his foes. There's only two times his composure slips, when Bufo insults his deceased son and his demise when he pulls a Big "NO!" but it's not a pathetic one or whatnot and he is determined to the very end to complete his goal. His defeat is a bit odd but nothing humiliating so I'd let it slide tbh.
Evil Only Has to Win Once is in full play for Mandrake's goal, if the pod blooms under darkness, that's it he's won and he pulls of different schemes to fulfil that goal and if not for the interference of MK's father (an Outside-Context Problem) having the bats flock to him. Mandrake would've won there and then. Apart from his son's demise, Mandrake doesn't really suffer any setbacks in his plan.
Bad Boss? Sure there's no care for his soldiers but there's no obligatory "murder for failure" scene so that helps. The only time you see him kill one of his own forces is when he rots a bat Nod is using to chase him but it's to stop Nod, not just some heinous act of sadism and we've got way worse villains in terms of treatment to their minions listed. Mandrake also legitimately cares for his son, not in an heir type of way but actual care and is furious when he perishes.
Is he a bastard?
Uh yeah, rotting the forest with the denizens worried for their lives? Thankfully Fridge Horror prevents it from getting too grisly since the movie doesn't say what will happen to the inhabitants so it's a case of the weight being there but not the explicit outcome. We're not seeing Mandrake terrorise people with sadistic relish and killing them en masse etc. Overall Mandrake's just a slightly darker than usual animated villain but with nothing I'd say revolting behind him and him being a case of sounding much worse on paper.
Final Verdict?
What say we?
Edited by WetFlannels on Nov 18th 2023 at 7:56:34 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Goku Black
Mandrake
to Mandrake.
Caesar
Sure to Mandrake from that very very interesting film
Take all time you need Bull and best of luck.