Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Not the Eye
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Russell
My next one, with my esteemed colleague Austin:
What's the work?
The Boogeyman is based on one of Stephen King's most chilling of stories. Sadie and Harper Sawyer are struggling to come to grips with the death of their mother, along with their father Will. As they struggle with grief, Will is visited by a therapy client named Lester Billings who is of the belief something murdered his three kids. He hangs himself soon after.
Soon after...something begins to terrorize the family. Enter...
The Boogeyman.
Who is the Boogeyman?
Lester Billings' widow Rita speculates the Boogeyman is an ancient and primordial being that lives within the darkest shadows. A sadistic beast, the Boogeyman's pasttime and pleasure is stalking innocent people and driving them to the worst recesses at their lowest points. IT feeds off fear and has but one weakness: light. The Boogeyman has murdered countless innocent people, especially children. I Ts MO is always the same: stalk them. Drive them insane with fear. And then claim the victim.
The film has the Boogeyman haunt the girls and cruelly torture them with repeated "hauntings"
Rita Billings speculates there's a way to kill the Boogeyman: fire. But the Boogeyman murders her. Brutally. The Bogeyman lures in Sadie by taking her family hostage but the family overcomes their trauma and manage to get the better of the beast. Setting it on fire, the Boogeyman is seemingly annihilated...
Except the ending reveals it's likely still alive...out there. Waiting, in the shadows of the closet...
Mitigating issues?
It's made abundantly clear the Boogeyman is not a mindless monster,m but a clever sadist. It is fully and utterly capable of going for the kill, but it delights in the terror of victims by drawing it out and explicitly terrorizes victims to a really cruel extent by tormenting, haunting and then murdering them. Lester is hounded to suicide (unless the Boogeyman murders him and stages a suicide), by the Boogeyman murdering his kids. The youngest was a baby.
Yeah, any questions?
Conclusion?
Yes. Easy yes.
Goku Black
The Boogeyman
Lizzid people!
Yes for the Boogeyman.
Not the Eye
Yes to Boogeyman
Edited by EmperorGeode on Jun 18th 2023 at 11:58:57 AM
Wild Child
Boogeyman.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Tan and the Boogeyman
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Russell. Chase was only in that one episode, correct? If so, Tan will go first (and I think you said you have one more from the series?).
Yes to the Boogeyman. Could the original version count, or is he outdone by the other child-killers in King's works?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Chase is emntioned more but with only one appearance. I'd be a bit leary of the OG Boogeyman, TBH
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Fair enough. Looking over the King page, there are a LOT of child-killers.
I'll have Chase second.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Tan and the Boogyman
Happy Father's Day, everyone! I really wasn't sure about this one, so I decided to just do it and see what happens.
What is the Work?
Madness: Ascend is a short fan animation based on Madness Combat. In this story, Hank is given Adaptational Heroism and is out on a quest to save Nevada from Jebus.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
Jebus is given Adaptational Villainy from the Well-Intentioned Extremist he was in the original source material. A tyrant who manipulated the population of Nevada into letting him build a factory to "spread happiness" when in truth it polluted the land and subject the people to Body Horror, twisting them in the cross faces that he uses as his minions.
When Hank travels to the factory to save Nevada, he kills his way through the factory and arrives at Jebus' domain. There, it is revealed that Jebus lives in a paradise with no pollution. Hank is so caught up in the environmental that he is distracted long enough for Jebus to callous stab him through the back of his head. After Hank is killed Jebus goes to leave his body and continue to enjoy his paradise, only to hear ticking. Lifting up Hank's body and opening his jacket, Jebus only has enough time to widen his eyes before the bomb strapped to Hank explodes, killing Jebus and allowing his paradise to spread throughout Nevada.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where I think it gets a little difficult, as it is a short, five minute animation with no dialogue, but I feel I can scrap up enough character for both Hank and Jebus.
We get a lot about what kind of person he is. His propaganda is a very manipulative, showing himself as a happy, smiling friend whose factory will spread happiness, while it does the exact opposite. We also see his selfishness when Hank arrives at the top floor to see Jebus lives in paradise while leaving the rest of Nevada to suffer.
Are they bad enough?
This is the easy part. Jebus' actions turned the Nevada in a polluted wasteland and twisted its population into cross faces, which is show to be a horrific process where their faces split open.
Final Verdict?
I'll let you guys decide.
Based on the EP, to the Boogeyman.
Saw Rise of the Beasts last weekend and The Flash last night. PM me to discuss please.
Tan.
Having watched it, The Boogeyman.
....Phenomenal
for Russell and Boogeyman.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
for Acrisius and Palpatine. (Downvoting a Sheev proposal, that's novel)
Unsure on Jebus.
Edited by TheGrayFox on Jun 18th 2023 at 1:59:30 AM
There remains a foothold out of this mire — now climb.
to Tan Russel, the Boogeyman and Jebus.
Enthusiastic for The Boogeyman. EDIT: Also for Jebus.
Here are the write ups for The Bill. Some more EP's will come either tomorrow or the day after.
- Series 4: "Guessing Game": Ian Kessel is a sexually sadistic elderly man with a fetish for non-consensual confinement and restraint. From the year 1947, Ian falsely befriended and then abducted a string of women and hid them away in dark rooms bound up with rope in a hangmans noose, with the restraints delibrately designed to torure them in as degrading manner as possible over a period of days, his victims only surviving after being discovered by the police. In the present day, Ian groomed another potential victim and was on the verge of abducting her, before dying of a heart attack.
- Series 12: "Worst Fears" & "One Night With You": Peter Renshaw is serial child rapist. Running a horrific child pornography enterprise, where over a hundred children are raped on camera and the footage sold onto other pedophiles, Renshaw abducted a boy called Tommy Laker and attempted to give him the same fate, only being stopped when Tommy was discovered in the company of a fellow pedophile and rescued. Taken into custody, Renshaw played sadistic mind games with the police and even bragged about all of his other victims that the detectives didn't know about.
- Series 14: "A Little Help": Simon Higgins is a slimy sales executive who, frustrated at not being able to get laid, decides to serially drug and rape women and then pretend afterwards that they had fully consensual sex. Obtaining the date rape drug from his friend Adam, Higgins made Adam's girlfriend his first victim, and went on to do the same to over 9 others, only being stopped when Adam testified against him. When caught, Higgins attempted to blame Adam for everything.
- Series 24: "Forgotten Child" two-parter:
- Jake Clegg is one of the heads of a national child prostitution ring that spans the whole of the UK. Ruling over the girls with an iron fist, Clegg killed via lethal injection any who stepped out of line, as well as administering regular torture and beatings as punishment. Using his own cousin, Donnelly, to lure in more victims, Clegg would get them hooked on drugs and then sell them off into a life of sexual slavery. When Donnelly began to grow conflicted about the operation, Clegg killed his girlfriend via overdose and brutally beat him into unconsciousness, all whilst taunting the police.
- Kenton Farmer and Logan Hunter are the other heads of the child prostitution ring and every bit as depraved as their boss. Farmer directly ensures that the girls are raped by the ring's depraved clients, as well as administering brutal punishments to any girl who attempts to resist. Hunter oversees the ring's Glasgow operations and regularly trafficks girls to London. Upon the police investigating, Farmer decided to take the fall purely for the monetary reward the other members would give him whilst Hunter attempted to deliver another shipment of girls to Clegg.
Edited by Atlantis1930 on Jun 18th 2023 at 11:26:37 AM
Messenger from another dimension.
Very late but yes to Scorpion! I remember Bosco Adventure! It's my childhood!
And definite no to Acrisius. He could count in other works, but having seen Blood of Zeus, he falls short.
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Machine Gun Massacre
Where's the thread to argue that an approved Complete Monster should be removed?
Tiiiick tock... goes the clock... and all the years....![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Okay I’ve got an amusing quick one. As you know my good pal Atlantis has been going through The Bill for keepers. As such he asked me to check out a few episodes that had candidates he wanted a second opinion on.
However, quite by accident I ended up watching the wrong episode, and still found someone who could still be a keeper.
From season 11’s “Bad Pictures” I give you Tony Collier.
What Does He Do:
On the surface Collier appears a harmless, unassuming middle-class individual who works as a chef at a local restaurant.
However, this is just a front, and in reality, Collier is a dangerous paedophile and a highly prolific child pornographer. Converting his home’s spare room into his own film studio and dark room, for years Collier personally produced his material, building up a collection for his own personal enjoyment.
Everything was going well for him, when his home was broken into by the Derek Leno, who stole his camera and his video recorder. Unfortunately for him Leno didn’t think to take the old film out before he started using the Camera, so quickly turned the film roll into be developed. Discovering the graphic and abusive images on the roll led to the owner contacting DC Carver and Woods.
Tracking down Leno, he eventually put them on Collier’s sent. Collier had since covered up all evidence of the break in, and even borrowed one of his brother-in-law’s Doberman’s to further guard his house. Thus when the police arrived he denied having ever seen the equipment or their had been any sort of break in, claiming the dog to be his and thus proof no one broke in.
However, finding the evidence he wasn’t able to cover up and tipped off by the fact the name he called the dog didn’t match the one on its collar, they were able to track down his brother-in-law, who confirmed the break in.
Returning with a search warrant, despite the complaints of the increasingly belligerent and desperate Collier, whilst checking his spare room Carver realised the floorboards in the hallway were lose. Taking them up the found Collier’s hidden stash, the episode ending with him being dragged off to the station.
Any Freudian Excuse or Redeeming Traits:
Nothing really. Collier is married, although we never meet his wife as she works on cruises and is thus away most of the year, giving him ample free time to indulge in his twisted perversions. He never expresses any care for her and its implied he might have married her as a cover.
He likewise isn’t close to his brother-in-law, during the interview he actually admits his sister suspected Collier was a paedophile and he has a slight breakdown realising its true, as he assured her it was probably nothing, revealing he’s pretty much been in denial for a while.
Collier does borrow his dog Tyson, but its clear he only wants it as a guard against future burglaries. Onscreen he’s actually quite rough and harsh with the poor animal, and never even realises he’s calling it by the wrong name.
Heinous Standard:
Okay as Atlantis has discussed before whilst there are a number of sexual predators in the series, they’re still quite a rare affair with about one every few hundred episodes. He's admittedly not as bad as Rensaw, but then he's got nowhere near the operation Rensaw had. Being completely fair its never outright confirmed if Collier flat out rapes his victims (at the very least he’s not in any of the photo’s they recovered on his most recent roll of film).
We likewise don’t meet any of his victims. However, when they discover his stash at the end it amounts to at least seven video tapes and enough photographs to form an album. Everyone’s reaction makes it clear these are extremely explicit and brutal imagery, with multiple people being clearly disturbed including DC Carver. Its likewise clear from the amount of material he has in his possession that Collier’s done this to a lot of children.
Conclusion:
A pretty straightforward and unpleasant candidate I would say.
Still what do you think?
Edited by MGD107 on Jun 18th 2023 at 3:52:08 AM
Goku Black
Collier
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yeah, sure to Collier. In a normal series I'd be hesitant since this is like, what, the 5th child pornographer/pedophile? Though since there are SO many episodes, I think I'm okay (we may need a reevaluation at the end though).
Where will he go on the page?
Also, any more Father Brown candidates from anyone?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Not the Eye
to Jebus and Collier
Edited by EmperorGeode on Jun 18th 2023 at 4:30:49 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]")
Tan
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."