Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Mikado Sanoji, Ganon, Ganon, Lord Mogra and Christopher Columbus.
Okay here are my first two write ups:
- "The Wire In The Blood" & "The Retribution": Jacko Vance, one of the nations most beloved celebrities, in spite of his cultivated image of a charming, philanthropic man of the people is truthfully a calculating narcissistic, misogynistic psychopath driven by an obsession with control; considered by Tony to be the most evil killer he ever encountered. For twelve years, Vance charmed vulnerable fourteen- to fifteen-year-old olds into secretly meeting him, then he would shatter their arm with an vice and imprison them, repeatedly raping and torturing his victims for months on end until eventually they died from the trauma of the ordeal or starvation. Responsible for seventeen deaths in this grizzly manner, realising that Detective Shaz Bowman was onto him, Vance murdered her by ripping out her eyes, cutting off her ears and pouring acid down her throat. Breaking out of prison years later, Vance murdered his loyal accomplice, whom he'd fooled into believing he was innocent, once he no longer needed him and went on a rampage: murdering Carol's younger brother and his wife, raping her as she died; disfiguring and blinding Sergeant Chris Devine with an acid trap; and setting his ex-wife stables on fire intending to kill her new partner, succeeding in killing an innocent stable boy. With Vance intending to carry on until he'd destroyed everything meaningful in the lives of everyone he blamed for his incarceration.
- "The Torment of Others": Detective Sergeant Jan Shields aka "the Voice", presenting herself as a gruff but fair officer is secretly a corrupt manipulative, lecherous psychopath driven by obsessions with power and control. Abusing her position in Vice, Shields forced all the Temple Fields prostitutes to regularly have sex with her to be allowed to work in the area, delighting in subjecting the women to humiliating and painful experiences that violated their every boundary, earning the epithet "The Creeper". Having been obsessed with the idea of possessing absolute control over another human being since childhood, Shields brainwashed Derek Tyler into becoming her "Trained Monkey" and then set him to murder four local prostitutes through an agonising manner that left them to slowly bleed to death, all for Shields pleasure. Losing Tyler, Shields brainwashed Carl McKenzie and used him to carry on her killing spree murdering two more women. Then to up the stakes Shields had him abduct DC Paula McIntyre, keeping Paula prisoner for days without food or water, so Shields could enjoy her prolonged suffering. The police closing in Shields ordered Tyler to kill himself, then personally murdered McKenzie, and attempted to stab Tony to death.
Thoughts?
Got a couple of candidates from another kinda forgotten game
What's the Work?
Remember Me is an Action Adventure Game released in 2013. The game is set in the future, where a corporation called Memorize Corporation managed to get a hold of technology, that can gather and alter memories of people. The plot follows Nilin, a "memory hunter", who got most of her memories stolen, when she was captured by the police, but got freed from prison by her supposed friends and she is told, that she is a part of the resistance against Memorize Corporation, and she sets her goals to recover her memories and find out who she really is.
Full walkthrough of the game can be watched here.
The heads of the company don't count, due to them both being (spoiler alert) Nilin's parents, who love their daughter and who got tragic reasons for setting up a corrupt system and they changed their ways in the end.
Nevertheless, couple of higher ranking members, who work for them, are shown to be evil enough to count and lack any kind of redeeming qualities.
My first candidate is Dr. Sebastian Quaid
Who is Dr. Sebastian Quaid?
A scientist in an especially brutal La Bastille prison, which is ruled by Madame Astrid Voorhees, Sebastian gleefully participates in torture of the prisoners, by painfully taking away their memories and tampering with prisoner's minds in such a way, that many of them either die or turn into feral mutated Leapers, with Nilin starting the game by escaping from such fate.
Becoming interested in the Leapers and starting to hate the idea of individuality, Sebastian is the most active member in the Reconversion Project, a project that has thousands of Leapers being captured and brainwashed completely to be "the attack dogs" for Memorize Corporation's forces. Sebastian decides to start turning many of the prisoners into Leapers and then "domesticating" them to turn them into his own personal army.
Having Nilin's friend, her fellow memory hunter Bad Request, tortured and completely turning him into a Leaper by draining all of his memories, thus corrupting his mind, Sebastian goes against Scylla Cartier-Wells' orders to stop the Reconversion Project, openly wanting to continue his experiments, having big plans to "destroy individuality", as he evades Nilin and an intellegent Leaper Johnny Greenteeth (who in reality was his partner, before he experimented on him and turned him into a Leaper).
Confronted by Nilin, he sends his own men and enslaved Leapers to kill her, before he tried to make her fall to her death by opening a floor beneath her, before he was killed by furious Johnny Greenteeth.
Mitigating Qualities?
None. Just a Mad Scientist, who loves to torture and experiment on prisoners and mutants.
While he tries to justify his insistance on continuing the Reconversion Project by saying that thousands of Leapers will revert to their feral state if he stops, his speeches during his "boss" fight and desire to "destroy individuality" kinda destroy any pretense of him having any kind of well intentioned goals.
Heinousness?
While this is the game, where the leader of the resistance flooded the sector of a city, causing hundreds of deaths and heads of the corporations spreading a corrupt system through the city and their forces abuse their power, Sebastion, even in the game itself, stands out due to nature of his experimentations of corrupting the minds of thousands prisoners and turning them into feral Leapers and then enslaving those Leapers for his goal of "destroying individuality".
Conclusion?
What do you think?
Sebastian
to Dr. Sebastian Quaid.
To Quaid
Funny this game takes place in France and I’m still in France
Not the Eye
to Dr. Sebastian
Sebastian
Holy shit. Thousands.
Edited by Mr-ex777 on May 14th 2023 at 4:32:04 PM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to Quaid.
Pending:
- Murder Shack (Arawn)
- Dragalia Lost: Xenos (cwallace135)
- Teslagrad: King (Dimon)
- Lookism: The Cult Leader (Echidna)
- Kintoru (Echidna)
- Robioff (Silverblade)
- Corto Maltese: Mendoza (Silverblade)
- Dragon Quest Heroes: The World Tree's Woe and The Blight Below: Velasco (Tadi)
Edited by ACW on May 14th 2023 at 4:44:08 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
To get this out of the way, second and last candidate from Remember Me
Who is Madame Astrid Voorhees?
A head of La Bastille prison, Madame keeps it as a harsh hellhole by regularly torturing prisoners, taking away their memories, to keep them docile (which leaves most of the prisoners stuck in a state of constant pain), allowing her guards to abuse prisoners and letting Dr. Sebastian Quaid freely take countless of her prisoners and use them as subjects in his experiments, which causes many of them to die or to turn into feral Leapers.
When Nilin infiltrated her prison, Madame started to torture Bad Request for fun, before sending him to be a next subject of Quaid's experiments, which left him mindbroken completely. Upon learning that Nilin started to defeat her guards and causing chaos in her prison, Madame activated the Brain Drainer, which drains and destroys the minds of anyone it sees, with us seeing prisoners being left completely broken by it, solely because they were caught in it's lights.
Nilin defeated the machine and then confronted Madame, beating her in combat and then stealing her memories, after which she released the memories of prisoners, allowing them to regain their minds and free themselves, attacking the guards and causing destruction all over prison.
Mitigating Qualities?
None. She is just a power hungry despot with superiority complex.
Heinousness?
While the game has quite a huge standard, the nature of Madame's crimes is what makes her stand out. Not only does she allows and assists Dr. Sebastian Quaid in his vile experiments, which causes a lot of deaths, but she also keeps most of her prisoners in a state of contant suffering, allows her guards to abuse prisoners for fun, and loves to torture prisoners for fun and leaves many of them completely mind broken.
Conclusion?
What do you think?
Edited by VeryVileVillian on May 14th 2023 at 11:49:34 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
And a yes.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Astrid Voorhees
Astrid
Holy shit the villains here are insane.
Any villains that didn't make the cut because they're not awful enough?
Edited by Mr-ex777 on May 14th 2023 at 4:59:10 PM
Not the Eye
to Astrid
The Emperor of Evil!
to Ganondorf 1 & 2, Mogra, Columbus, Quaid, and Astrid Voorhees.
...Phenomenal
for the Remember duo.
to Madame Astrid Voorhees.
Oh yeah, I remember that game. Had a very interesting premise
Quaid and Voorhees
Also Ganon x2, Columbus
Edited by Snowy66 on May 14th 2023 at 2:31:15 AM
also, happy to split, but intent to use my last slot on the Flash
What does pending means? I think it’s been three days since I posted about Xenos. Is it okay if I add the example to the sandbox?
...Phenomenal
"Pending writeup" just means, well, it's waiting on you to make the writeup. Which you'd post both here and move to the drafts sandbox.
There remains a foothold out of this mire — now climb.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
What ![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
said. So yes.
Goku Black
quaud and vorhees
Astrid.
I've been thinking about whether Kyra's mother in The Sixth Sense might qualify. She's been voted down before due to the belief she has Manchausen by proxy, but from watching the film again, that is never brought up and her motive for poisoning her daughter is not confirmed. Do you think she might count?
To Astrid
Oh, on that case, I'll move Veger.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts