Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Randall, but the writeup better lampshade the obvious pun.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yeah, take it to image pickin'.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
In that his name is Randall BOGGS but he isn’t a BOG standard villain?
Back with another candidate. I'm a bit unsure but I think they're a keeper.
What is the work?
The work is Dissidia Final Fantasy: Opera Omnia, a massive Crisis Crossover featuring characters from across the Final Fantasy series.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
The candidate is Eald'narche, from the world of Final Fantasy XI and the Big Bad of the Rise of the Zilart expansion.
Eald'narche's goals in this game directly tie into the events of his home game, so a quick summary. Eald'narche and his brother Kam'lanaut were plotting to open the Gates of Paradise to become gods, but this act would destroy most of Vana'diel's civilized races and possibly the world itself, as humans are innately imperfect beings who can't exist in Paradise. Eald'narche pulled You Have Outlived Your Usefulness on Kam'lanaut when he failed to defeat the Player Character of XI and tried to complete their plan himself, but was also defeated. Dying, he attempted to prematurely overload the five Mothercrystals to destroy Vana'diel in a Suicidal Cosmic Temper Tantrum, but failed and died.
In Opera Omnia, Eald'narche and Kam'lanaut were summoned by Spiritus to fight to generate energy to sustain the world of the game. Eald'narche didn't tell Kam'lanaut he had also been summoned and stayed hidden as Kam'lanaut tried to use the nature of World B to will his vision of paradise into existence. When the heroes felled him, Eald'narche stepped in and led him in retreat, but the heroes chased them down and defeated them together. Disgusted with Kam'lanaut's weakness, Eald'narche cast him through a portal elsewhere and fought the party again, but when he lost a second time too he fled.
At the end of Act 2 of the story, the Crystal Pillars supporting the world were destroyed. Spiritus had kept the memories and full powers of his summoned warriors sealed in the Crystal Pillar of Darkness, which were now scattered around the new world as fragments of silt. Eald'narche found several of these fragments and began to gather them. He had the epiphany that many of the chosen warriors were summoned from different points in their world's history, so it stood to reason they could return to their worlds at a different point as well. He wished to use this potential to return to Vana'diel in the past, correct his past failures and complete his plan. To achieve this though, he had to stabilize the world's new state - it was overflowing with light, and he would balance it out by increasing the darkness in the world.
Over the course of Act 3, Eald'narche returns the lost powers of the Emperor and Caius, and gives Seymour the fragment of silt belonging to Jecht, which Seymour uses to turn Jecht against the party briefly with his dark memories. The primary presence he concerns himself with is Hope, as Eald'narche senses he holds dark memories and an extremely powerful presence within him, and he wants to draw it out. He manipulates Hope by teasing him with the idea of regaining his memories and convinces Hope to come with him, and begins to awaken the presence. Snow goes looking for Hope and finds Eald'narche, and he uses his telepathy to read the party's minds and taunt them about their doubts and fears over their lost memories. He convinces Snow to come with him to retrieve his memories as well, and gives him a partial fragment of silt that only restores enough of Snow's memories that he thinks Lightning will kill him in their world.
Meanwhile, the presence within Hope awakens, but unfortunately for Eald'narche, while Hope's lost memories were indeed dark ones, the actual presence was Bhunivelze, the God of Light from the XIII saga. At this same time, the heroes are making an effort to retrieve their lost leader, the Warrior of Light; all-in-all, the world's power is tilting heavily to light. Eald'narche angrily confronts the heroes and tries to kill them to stop them from freeing the Warrior of Light, but he is defeated again and fades away in the gleam of the concentrated light.
At this time the game is proceeding into Act 4. The ending Interlude of Act 3 shows that Eald'narche is still alive and still scheming to find a way home, but he hasn't done anything worth mentioning yet.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
None whatsoever. To start, Eald'narche is simply an arrogant prick. He insults others at every turn, both behind their backs and to their faces, and makes no secret that as far as he's concerned, everyone else is beneath his notice and deserves to die because they are unworthy of existing. He never shows any respect or regard for anyone, and while he occasionally makes offers of alliance to some characters, he's always upfront that he's only doing so because he sees direct personal benefit in working with them, and if they don't want to ally with him it's their loss.
Even his own brother wants nothing to do with him. Kam'lanaut is wary of even taking simple advice or directions from him, and he tells others not to trust Eald'narche because he's liable to toss them aside at a moment's whim the same way as happened with him. Eald'narche totally justifies this attitude because he treats Kam'lanaut with the same contempt as everyone else, and when watching him from afar he mocks Kam'lanaut for thinking he has the ability to create paradise on his own.
Are they bad enough?
Eald'narche's goal is to return home and Make Wrong What Once Went Right; undo his past defeat and successfully open the Gates of Paradise, and it's made clear he knows this would be an act of global genocide and he doesn't care. He offers to work with the heroes to return home at past points in time, and makes the case that it's likely that the history of their world would splinter into parallel timelines if they each returned to different points and changed history, so they shouldn't care what he'll do when he gets home. One of them asks if he intends to hurt lots of people if he gets his wish, and he replies bluntly "and if I do?" Earlier when Lion, a heroine from XI who died stopping Eald'narche, pointed out he tried to destroy Vana'diel before, Eald'narche replied "all I did was rid the world of its scum".
He gives other villains back their powers, either directly or implicitly (it's implied in some cases that the fragments of silt that villains find on their own or get off-screen may have been Eald'narche's doing), and encourages them to give in to their dark desires so the darkness of the world will grow stronger. While the Emperor and Seymour demand the power of silt from him, Eald'narche forces one upon Caius to transform him into Chaos Bahamut, and manipulates Snow and Hope into turning on their allies as well. He also tries to convince Machina to give in to the darkness in his heart, first by reminding him of his hatred and betrayal of his friends in his original world, and then by offering to erase his memories so he can repeat his betrayal without guilt. On other occasions Eald'narche uses his telepathy to read minds to try to manipulate the heroes into doing what he wants, which takes the form of him calling out their insecurities, their dark pasts, their buried desires, etc.
The main reason Eald'narche's list of evil deeds isn't longer is pragmatism and arrogance; he dislikes having to do things himself unless he absolutely must, and the heroes kicked his butt twice before and he's learned his lesson. But when pushed to it, he still tries to kill them directly on at least two other occasions. Comparing his resource level to the other villains is tricky; as you may imagine, power scaling between games is all over the place and it's impossible to definitively say if Eald'narche is much stronger or weaker than characters like the Emperor, Kefka, Sephiroth, etc (though for the record, even in his original game he lacked the dramatic One-Winged Angel transformation a lot of them have, so I'd personally estimate that he's on the weaker end of the scale). A lot of plot developments in Opera Omnia happen through willpower from involved parties, heroes and villains alike, and it isn't certain what Eald'narche could do if he tried to will something to happen. What is certain is that two resources he has are fragments of silt and telepathy, and he uses both to corrupt and manipulate others.
A final point of note is that Eald'narche passed CM qualification in his home game. While Opera Omnia is vague on when some of its cast were called, given that Eald'narche remembers his defeat in his homeworld and mentions being "trapped in a rift" (which lines up with his spirit appearing in the Chains of Promathia expansion), it's clear that he was summoned from a point after his death. I'm not clear on the rules in Eald'narche's actions in his original game counting towards his showing here, but at the least his acknowledgement of these events demonstrates he remembers he tried to cause an apocalypse and doesn't care and would do it again.
Final verdict?
Eald'narche is a contemptuous sociopath who tries to exploit the rules of the crossover to rewrite the history of his world so he can achieve his dream of godhood at the cost of the genocide of Vana'diel's other races, and he manipulates and corrupts others to evil to make it happen.
Edited by DrakeClawfang on Mar 27th 2023 at 9:03:09 AM
Ultimate Moral Compass
Eald'narche
Late night EP yay!
Second TJ Hooker candidate incoming. I have some Serial Rapists to go through, so let's start with our first one.
Who is He?
Frank Bryce, from Season 3’s "Death on the Line", is one-half of "The Marina Rapist" alongside his partner, the thief Cliff Tanner.
What has he done?
Helping Tanner out in his thefts by scouting women to steal from and posing as phone repairmen to get inside their homes, Bryce makes a habit of raping and strangling the women to death to leave no witnesses, even making sure the girls he picks are low-income women because "rich old broads don’t turn me on."
With three rapes under his belt, Bryce starts the episode raping and strangling Linda, only to leave her alive when they’re caught. Linda herself is broken by the incident, too afraid to tell her boyfriend that she's been raped. With Bryce going on to rape and murder another woman, Hooker finds out that Bryce keeps a list in his locker detailing his previous and many potential victims, with Hooker encountering and arresting him as he’s about to make a move on his 6th victim.
Redeeming Qualities?
None.
Heinousness?
So rape isn't all that common on the show. In the show's four-year run, there have been about 5-6 rapists on the show (one doesn't count due to genuine insanity, the other due to only one rape). Bryce stands out from the others for his fetishistic love of murdering and violating poor women, and before anyone asks, his cohort Cliff is primarily in it for the stealing, never participating in the rapes and murders himself. He's even shown to be slightly disgusted with Bryce's rapes.
Conclusion
Another easy keep
"No running in the halls!"
Seems like an easy keep, am I missing anything?
The pun I had in mind for Randall was Complete Monsters Inc.
Edit: ![[nja]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/user_ninja_2074.png "[nja]"){kind=small}
'd
Edited by ANonagon9 on Mar 27th 2023 at 10:25:01 AM
My reservation was mostly based in "have they done enough evil in quality and quantity to qualify?".
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Unsure on Eald, but yes to the Serial Rapist.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Mr.
Again, I don’t think the Lamb from ‘Wool Over Our Eyes’ actually qualifies. It’s never made clear just how much agency they actually have, and they were explicitly possessed near the end of the song.
The Draftsman of Doom
Is it okay if Unicron has a "Franchise-wide" section on the Transformers page, like the one on the Star Wars page?
If so, then here's my write-up:
- Unicron is the greatest threat in the Transformers mythos, who seeks to consume all of existence. Originally created by an omnipotent being known as "The One" to explore the universe at the beginning of time, Unicron would go on a rampage, spreading chaos and destruction throughout the cosmos. When his twin brother Primus was created to protect the multiverse, Unicron would make many attempts to kill him. Traveling through various universes and timelines, Unicron has devoured countless planets, enslaved numerous beings to be his heralds, destroyed 22.56% of the known multiverse, and has nearly ended all of reality on more than one occasion.
Edited by CookieMonster69 on Mar 28th 2023 at 9:32:10 AM
Man in the Yellow Hat
I mean, as far as I remember, they got enough votes, so unless they get cut in the cleanup thread, its to late. Plus, nothing hinted they was possessed besides their eyes glowing and them levitating, and most of the Lambs evil acts were before that anyway.
Edited by Purgatoryisof2 on Mar 27th 2023 at 12:02:54 PM
He/Him
Also, in-game, the Lamb's eyes turn red when they're pissed off, not when they're being possessed. The lyrics also make it clear that they know what they're doing, feel no remorse and relish in it.
Best Smile
Randall, Bart Bartley, Magneto, Tengu Shredder, both Baxters, Dong Zhuo, Jonathan Barnet, Koakuma, Razvan, Eiskolas, Vortigan, Nezarec, Warlord of Saturn, Infinata, Watts, Kamala, Organist, Dobbs, Frank.
Caesar
Yes to Dobbs and Bryce
Ok, just to cover all bases now that it's officially two weeks since The Last of Us (2023) finale: no one counts besides David. He's the worst character in the series by far and blows everyone else way out of the water except maybe Kathleen, but she's got loved ones and tragedy to her. Marlene is a genuine WIE whose worst crime is trying to kill Ellie to harvest her brain—bad, but not even close to what David had planned for her—and FEDRA, while responsible for all manner of heinous shit, has no one person to lay enough blame on to make any notable FEDRA staff particularly heinous.
Gonna snag the upcoming flick To Catch a Killer, btw
Edited by Ravok on Mar 28th 2023 at 12:27:14 PM
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Barb / Temporary Kylo
Yeah I just checked the Lambs song again. Their eyes turn red and they seem to go in a trance at the end. But this is because they had done a ritual to feed one of it's followers to the beast. It's not a sign of possesion or anything of the sort and that's apparently backed up by the game itself with High's words. Even if it were I think the entry would just need to be rewritten to be about He-Who-Waits beneath itself.
The First man
Not the Eye
to Eald and Frank
Had been thinking and I have two more Rocket Robin hood potentials
From episode “the Tree kingdom of Caldomar”
Who is Count Fantasmo? What has he done?
A warlord who schemes to take rich soil Of planet Caldamar and use it to power his machines for galactic conquest. Taking his fleet beneath the planets surface on the day Caldomar celebrates 3 centuries of peace, Fantasmo uses his electro sword and fleet of ships to cause earthguake that destroys one city, threathing Caldomar’s ruler, prince Sim, that if he dosen’t surrender in 11 minutes he will kill the whole planet.
Robin (who is prince’s old school buddy) goes to confort the Count and succesfully steal his electro sword. Count orders his fleet to burn Caldomar down. Robin succesfully puts fire out and beats Fantasmo with his own sword.
Mitigating factors?
His defeat is little comedic, but not nearly enought to be mitigating, while he is treated dead serious during the episode.
Heinouss standard?
As stated planet destruction is not unheard of (with Infinata having whole galaxy destroyed), but it is still rare enought to be enought to pass. Episode makes it clear that counts choice to people of Caldomar is genocide or slavery and when that fails he just decides to burn planet down.
Conclusion?
Yes
Edited by EmperorGeode on Mar 28th 2023 at 2:11:40 AM
2 Autumn Leaves: Thanks for The Organist. It's where all the stuff begins... Obvious
2 Ravok: Now we have something lighter for diversity.
2 Mimic 45: for Razvan.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Okay, I'm now starting to get a bit concerned about the Rocket heinous standard.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Not the Eye
It is pretty simmiliar to spider man 1967 show. First season is pretty ligthearted and low stakes, second and third are somehow Darker and Edgier (but still Light enought that most of truly High stake plots are generic enought to not be a problem or make villains who attempt them bad enought) and introduce some hidger stakes adversaries, just replace destroy the city with the planet. In both cases it stays rare enought crime to pass the standard. Infinata’s powers make him pretty much a god to the dimentia five, way more powerfull than any other villain.
Beside three I have and one umpcoming potential only other with a plot that may be given enought weight and be bad enought to pass is the entire race of microschopic aliens who brainwash a friendly giant into rampage over a planet so that they could colonise it.
Edited by EmperorGeode on Mar 28th 2023 at 4:09:13 AM
Barb / Temporary Kylo
EDIT:NVM, my phone isn't working and the EP keeps coming out messy. Resending it tommorow
Edited by Snoketrope on Mar 28th 2023 at 4:33:29 AM
The First man
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Honestly Geode, Infinata's the one I'm concerned about. He doesn't seem too much worse despite being so much more powerful.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Yeah, think I'm a for Eald. Seems pretty bad even for the jacked standard. Ping me if there's a counterargument.
Not the Eye
It depends on how we take him destroying Gamma Za. If we do go with “well we only see inhabitants of one planet soo” then I’m Honestly inclined to agree. Asspecally since my final candidate has even less resources than Warlord and Fantasmo.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
~Echidna, could you please write up the Entity? I believe it has 5 yes votes (6 including yourself) and 0 no votes.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts