Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Fat Cat
I know I'm super late, been real busy lately, but I wanted to confirm that I have finished Hazbin Hotel and my inbox is open.
Didn't @miraculous have Hazbin Hotel booked, or was that a collaborative effort?
EDIT: Apparently not.
Edited by Arawn999 on Feb 14th 2024 at 5:18:44 AM
Goku Black
What no? Snoke and Demon are handing it.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Bagosora, Vanitas, Fatty Catty
Caesar
What's the work?
Quo Vadis, Aida? is a war thriller that will enrage you as much as give you an anxiety attack lmao, following the sadly real life incident known as the Srebrenica massacre and the struggles of a United Nations interpreter desperate to save her family in the middle of it.
Who is Ratko Mladic? What has he done?
- A real life POS war criminal, General Ratko Mladić is a Bosnian Serb who is introduced gleefully arriving on the scene of the Bosniak city of Srebrenica that he has besieged and reduced to devastated rubble. The town's surviving population has taken refuge in a nearby United Nations "safe zone" guarded by Dutch military; any townsfolk who didn't make it in time are rounded up and executed by Mladić's military.
- Mladić has a camera crew follow him throughout the film, recording himself giving grandiose speeches and propping himself up as a "hero" of the Serbian people.
- Threatening to break international law and bomb the UN safe zone if his demands for a negotiation aren't upheld, Mladić meets with the UN Dutch military and some civilian representatives of the Bosniaks. Mladić plays nice and swears he wants no innocent blood on his hands, promising that if the Dutch work with him, he will arrange transportation for the tens of thousands of Bosniak civilians out of the UN safe zone to "safe" cities.
- And despite the niceties and kind words that Mladić has for the Bosniak citizenry, it's made clear pretty quickly what is happening. Mladić forcibly separates the women and children under 12 from the rest of the male population, drives the men to secluded areas, and massacres them with machine gunfire. Women and children are abused and sexually assaulted by Mladić's men as well, the entire "peaceful transportation" nothing but a show put on by Mladić to thinly veil a genocidal war crime.
- Ultimately 8,372 men and boys are slaughtered on Mladić's orders, the surviving widows and orphans traumatized and left with nothing after the depopulation. Protagonist Aida's family are among the victims despite her best efforts, and Mladić never receives comeuppance in the film itself, even though IRL he's now serving in prison for his crimes against humanity.
Mitigating features?
Nnnnnnope, he puts on a show for the cameras as a kind "man of the people" who hands out bread and food to the Bosniak civilians and gives an incredibly halfhearted speech that he hopes for "peace", but it's all a lie to put an icing of politeness over his war crimes, and even when he's being a "good guy", he's a sexist ass who blames the cowering Bosniaks for their own fates and proclaims they owe him their lives.
He has no standards against killing women and children—his opening scenes have his military killing them en masse—so no, him "only" slaughtering the men isn't a standard, it's just for appearances and even then he allows abuse of the women and kids to take place.
Heinousness?
Orchestrates a vicious siege that devastates Srebrenica and then carries out a systematic massacre of Bosniak males between the ages of 12 and 65 that leaves 8,000+ dead, with even the "spared" women and children victimized through abuse or executions for mild reasonings.
Final Verdict?
Yes indeed
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Not the Eye
Ultimate Moral Compass
Ratko
Goku Black
ratko.
for Mladić. First one, I guess.
Also I'm curious about something. spoilers from the teaser of the new Deadpool movie below.
The trailer revealed that Deadpool is now officially part of the MCU. And with the third movie still being a sequel to the previous two, what does that means in regards to the CMs from said movies? Do we add them to the MCU Monster page? Or do we keep them seperated? And are the still heinous enough now that they have to compete with baddies from all the other MCU works? It's not something we have to worry about until two weeks after the release of the movie but I'm just curious if we had as situation like this before and if there are any rules for something like that.
The Moron
We wait until the movie comes out and actually explains what it's about before we do anything, at which point we usually just go along with whatever the other pages for the movies decide.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
This fucker. Yes to Mladic.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Showtime!
to Mladic
Mladic
Ultimate Moral Compass
Hey, hope y'all aren't tired of Road Kill. Because after binging the volumes I haven't read yet (excluding Vol. 2; maybe someday), I've found a bunch of other possible candidates to propose. But I'll take it slowly.
What’s the Work?
Road Kill Volume 4, released in 2019, has two potential candidates I want to discuss.
Our first one can be found in "From These Muddy Waters", by Patrick C. Harrison III. This is a bottle story about a young man named Joe going fishing in the river with his senile Pappy. But as Pappy tells stories about his life that may or may not be true, after a while, Pappy starts getting serious, as he begins explaining the truth behind a series of missing people, including the true fate of Joe's deceased father Jacob.
And it can all be traced back to this creature.
Who is He?
The Caddaja, or the Uktena as the Cherokee call him, is a bloodthirsty sea monster hungry for humans.
What has he done?
A legendary horned serpent who once ate a hapless fisherman’s beloved dog, the Caddaja telepathically lures people to its location in the lake, where he manipulates them into giving up their lives just so he can devour them. Getting Pappy’s childhood friend Otto Franklin to jump into the lake by threatening to reveal his big secret (that he’s gay) to the world, Otto donned on cement shoes and plunged himself in the lake, becoming food for the Caddaja.
Heavily implied to be responsible for a string of murders in the lake, including three sisters and three other people who jumped off the bridge over the lake, the Caddaja is revealed by Pappy to have been responsible for the murder of Joe’s father Jacob. While fishing by the river many years ago, the Caddaja tried to devour the baby Joe, even prioritizing him over the others. Jacob would sacrifice his life to save his son, with the Caddaja leaving Pappy and Joe alive after losing most of its tentacles and his strength. In the present, after Pappy tells Joe the truth, something big gets hooked onto Joe’s fishing line, with the implication that the Caddaja’s returned. Pappy braces himself for what's to come.
Redeeming Qualities?
Zero. The Caddaja, rather than being a mindless monster eating to survive, is a malicious creature who is willing to bully and threaten its food in order to lure them to the lake, as seen with Otto.
Heinousness?
The Caddaja has a pretty good body count for a lake monster, with a fairly cruel M.O. to get people to dive into the lake, and the fact that he even attempts to eat a baby because it's an easy target. The Caddaja is portrayed as a creature of pure evil who devours the weak, mainly those who can't fight back against it. He's not some god or deity, just a regular sea monster.
Conclusion
I think he keeps
"No running in the halls!"
Not the Eye
Goku Black
The Caddaja
Caddaja
Jogo
Ratko and the Caddaja
Edit: ![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
to Jake, who I feel is bad enough even when he only kills three people due to repeatedly killing Andie through the timeloop while also Gaslighting her.
Edited by jlvs200s on Feb 14th 2024 at 7:44:55 PM
"Stand proud, Sukuna, you are strong." | He/Him
Showtime!
EP:
Got a Holiday appropriate ep from one of my favourite podcasts. This was technically a Groundhog Day Special, but it's also darkly appropriate for Valentine's
What is the work?
The incredibly long running and influential anthology horror podcast Pseudopod, more specifically, episode 904: Jinx
Who is the candidate
The candidate is the narrator, Andie's seemingly perfect new boyfriend, Jake.
What does he do?
Jake initially appears to be a perfect date, who's perfectly compatible with Andie. However, in the leadup to the dates, Andie keeps having bizarre dreams. Dreams where she's out at dinner with Jake and things escalate out of control, like Jake freaking out violently at things like losing at mini-golf, or Andie disliking Enchanted. The dreams are accompanied by violent, painful headaches, but since the dreams seem to be the exact opposite of what happens, Andie tries to ignore them. Andie's grandmother was killed by her husband, and her mother was a victim of long-term domestic abuse, so Andie is reluctant to give up on a relationship where the problems are so much "in her head" and the real problems (Jake's weird thing about finishing other's sentences as a "cute" joke, his complete unwillingness to learn what she likes sexually).
They move in together, and Andie ends up with a whole list of minor annoyances around Jake, ranging from walking in on him watching a terrible misogynistic comedy special, to him knowing a ton of personal information she never shared, ranging from Absurd Phobias to her grandmother's murder. Andie is concerned she might've started dating a stalker, but Jake seems uncannily knowing about everything else, and also the dreams are getting more intense, and Jake's behaviour in them is getting worse, including one where he strangles her.
When Jake proposes, that's the breaking point. Andie confronts him, and Jake rants about how he's done everything for her. he obviously sees treating her well as a burden, and she's mak b/ing a big deal over nothing. Jake is convinced he and Andie are meant to be together and he's been looping back to make everything perfect for her, and as far as he's concerned, she's daring to act like it's not enough. Ever since their first date repeated over and over until Jake got it "right", Jake thinks the universe wants them to be together,and when Andie runs, he stabs her repeatedly. Explicitly responding with "disappointment. Mild chagrin" rather than regret, Jake explains that he can erase all this, and when Andie says she'll remember This time, Jake repeats it along with her, indicating this has happened multiple times before.
There's a timeskip to six months after that repeat. Andie's best friend has died (obviously murdered by Jake to keep her from supporting Andie) and Jake's "confessed" to being possessive sometimes and needing therapy but he promises he's working on it. Andie's headaches from the repeats have escalated to a previously unknown brain disorder, and Jake's using it to gaslight Andie to convince her that's where all the discomfort comes from, even as his looping is making them worse and possibly making it terminal. The story ends with Andie stumbling over an engagement ring, and being ready to accept and take control over her life.
Redeeming Qualities
None that are genuine. As revealed over the course of the story, Jake is violently entitled to Andie, and any changes he's been making for her are just to ensure she doesn't leave their "perfect relationship". Jake is perfectly willing to harm her, up to and including death, because he can just reverse it. At the end of the story, it's pretty obvious his powers are killing Andie and he's still using them, because he'd rather she be dead than alive and away from him. He cries while stabbing her to death, but I think that goes right back to the fact he's breaking down over loss of control, especially given this isn't even the first time he's killed her.
Heinous Standard
Pseudopod is almost entirely disconnected as an anthology. The stories are not only set in different universes, but also have different writers, some are republications. I'd submit the shared work heinousness standard is pretty much just baseline. Jake only has a few victims (Andie, Audrey, Andie's landlord who he killed to make it easier for her to move in with him) but he's been gaslighting and controlling Andie mundanely and through timeloops for months (years, from his perspective) and has killed her multiple times, and he doesn't care if he ends up killing her with degenerative timeloop brain. I think he makes it based on the intense cruelty.
Conclusion
Edited by Libraryseraph on Feb 14th 2024 at 12:59:47 PM
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Ultimate Moral Compass
Not the Eye
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Absolute Rainbow & the tales between worlds
Abstaining on Jake
Absolute Rainbow
Lies and Violence!
Yes to Fat Cat, Ratko, the Caddaja, and Jake.
- Non canon comics:
- Samukai
- Warriors of Stone: The advisor to the mayor of Garmadon City, aware of the truth behind the stone plague, manipulates the mayor into not evacuating their people so they can be transformed into rock beings. Remaining the only one to retain his memories and agency, the advisor intends to spread the curse as far and wide as he can, then lead his army to destroy every other soul until the only life left is stone.
@Klavice don’t forget we have Lambert
In honor of Akira Toriyama