Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Gentle Laborer
A total has-been.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Dr. Yung. Good to have him back!
@Ms Oranje Disco Dancer: That's kind of part of the mark against the games version of Ghetsis. When Lysandre can actually take human life but still be portrayed as not entirley in the wrong and a lesser evil, it stacks the standard against Ghetsis being counted as a more truly heinous villain for lesser offenses.
@moctezuma2000: Manga!Malva is portrayed sympathetically in the end and actually resented Lysandre for the way he'd treated her, so she was never intent on remaining loyal to his cause.
@umaprasis: As of what we have on him, Manga!Faba comes up short. He managed to take over the Aether Foundation, thus was in full possession and control of all of its resources, yet nothing he did measured up to Agatha or Ghetsis.
@Klavice: Even beyond that factor you mentioned, Lovrina just...does not have the commitment to staying in the business of doing evil and making Shadow Pokemon that Ein had. She's more like Colress: amoral and doing whatever she feels like doing to help her along in life. Plus, I recall she treated her own Pokemon with affection.
Edited by ANewMan on Feb 10th 2024 at 1:54:14 PM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
It's like, if I understand correctly: Lysandre and Game!Cyrus have the deeds, but either are WIE or have a Freudian Excuse or something; Ghetsis, OTOH, doesn't have the latter, but isn't as bad as the former.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Also giving a "No" to Anis.
So with the genre baseline being relaxed a little, there's a one shot horror movie I've been thinking of revisiting for a couple weeks now, after catching a recent analysis for it.
All the Boys Love Mandy Lane is a 2006 film that initially goes for a grounded slasher formula, before turning it on it's head towards the ending. The film follows Mandy Lane, a former outcast, who grew up nicely over the summer and keeps this pure and innocent persona among her peers.
Mandy is invited by her new friend group to one of their family's ranch-house — which has a colorful IRL history of it's own — where they are being stalked by Mandy's former friend, Emmett, who picks off Mandy's new friends...in a scheme plotted out by Mandy herself.
A former high school outcast, Mandy was someone who grew up nicely at her school, befriending a group of popular students over junior year, while having an innocent, angel-like persona for the world to see. All the boys want to be with her; the girls are jealous of her — her friend Chloe might also want to be with her. Mandy is also friends with another, nerdier outcast named Emmet, and gets him invited to a pool party at the start of junior year.
At the party, Mandy is flirted with by a drunken host, Dylan, who Emmett talks into jumping off the roof into the pool in an attempt to impress Mandy. While Mandy looks on, stone-faced, Dylan accidentally kills himself during the jump. It's unclear if Mandy was in on the "prank", since she spent the fiasco looking blankly at Emmett and Dylan throughout. But it is implied this got Mandy to realize she can make others do stupid shit to impress her.
Over the year, Mandy befriends Dylan's friend group, gaining the rep as a Lovable Alpha Bitch, while Emmet is made an even bigger outcast due to Dylan's death. Towards the end of the year, Mandy is invited by her friend group — consisting of Red, Chloe, Marlin, Jake and Bird — to a weekend getaway at Red's family's ranch. Meanwhile, Emmet seemingly becomes a deranged Stalker with a Crush to Mandy, aiming to kill her friends to get to her; but as the end of the film reveals, Mandy had a secret relationship with Emmet, and they planned a killing and suicide pact together, with Emmet doing the legwork.
Throughout the stay at the farmhouse, Emmet picks off Mandy's friends for her; torturing and lowkey sexually assaulting Marlin, blinding and hacking up Bird, and shooting at the house. All while Mandy seemingly bonds with the friendly, older ranch hand, Garth, and connects with Chloe, manipulating her friends into a sense of security. At one point she sends Bird out to Emmet to seek out Jake and Marlin after they disappear, something that's retroactively implied to be Mandy trying to get him killed.
Eventually, Emmet kills all but Chloe, chasing her down in a slow moving car towards the arms of a waiting Mandy...who proceeds to gut Chloe, and reveal that she's in on it. As Mandy leaves Chloe to bleed out, she and Emmet discuss their plans, the manifesto Emmett made for the cops and copycats. Emmet gives Mandy pills for her part in the suicide pact...only for Mandy to teasingly tell Emmett that he shouldn't do anything for her and backs out from the pact.
When Garth arrives, Mandy acts like a panicked victim, getting Emmett shot at, and Garth stabbed. Emmet and Mandy fight in a pit full of slaughtered cows, where Mandy overpowers Emmet and beats him to death with a log, taunting Emmet that she'd "rather finish high school" than die with him. Mandy approaches Garth, considering finishing him off before he regains consciousness. Playing up her charade, Mandy takes Garth to his truck and they leave the ranch together, with Mandy being seen as this innocent victim and heroic survivor, while Emmet takes the fall for their spree.
The end.
None that's not faked or thrown into question. There's an air of mystery about her in the final film, and talking points for this movie's following is speculating on Mandy's nature and motives. Although, the original script is more explicit with what's left ambiguous or subtle in the final cut.
Mandy fronts this innocent, pure and somewhat introverted girl that you'd expect from the Final Girl, coming out of her shell and opening up to characters like Chloe or Garth...only for it to turn out to be manipulation. As a result, seemingly mitigating moments — such as "caring" for her aunt and cousin — can be chalked up to keeping up appearances.
She befriends a group of students, lowering their guards while plotting their deaths. Mandy comforts and connects with Chloe, before gutting her shortly thereafter. She "connects" with Garth and helps "save" him...but considers finishing him off, sparing him mainly because she needed someone to back up her story. She was friends with Emmett for years, appearing to have feelings for him — and uses his feelings to string him along for a killing spree, only to throw him under the bus.
There are also implications that Mandy was bullied in the past, but this really dwelled upon. She wasn't popular, until she became prettier, that's about it. The original script spells out her motive more explicitly than the final film; in that she and Emmet plotted this killing spree out of this sense of Social Darwinism. She sees herself as above her friends for being "weak"; and despises them because the boys like her for superficial reasons, seeing them as simps. One of the reasons she looks down at Emmet was because he was another lovesick lapdog that she manipulated.
Now it is mentioned that Mandy's parents died when she was young, but in the movie proper it's not brought up as a Freudian Excuse. Even possible care for her parents is vague at best in the final film. The most we get is her glancing at a picture of them with a blank expression, and only bringing them up in manipulative contexts; talking her aunt into letting her go on the trip, by saying "My parents would have let me go", and when she "connects" to Garth over the loss of his wife. However an earlier script does shed a little more light on that point.
In the script, Mandy's briefly mentions parents' deaths initially affected her, explaining they were killed in a car accident and how she had to "grow up" fast as a result. To deal with this, young Mandy would read Friedrich Nietzsche, concluding "that guilt and grief, can make a person weak." This was cut from the final film to keep Mandy, but it seems to lean that Mandy's care for her parents is something she put behind her.
So to sum it up, her supposed mitigating qualities are either bull, or vague and questionable.
IIRC, the main reason Mandy was shot down was because she was seen as a generic slasher villain. I'd argue that this is a non issue considering this is a one off movie, and doesn't really fall into generic slasher territory.
It goes for a more grounded and down to earth formula. Emmett uses a gun for most of the kills, using it to torture one of his victims in a sexual manner — miming fellatio by sticking the barrel down her mouth and neck — I'd say it's closer to a shooting spree movie than a standard slasher. While Emmet is the one doing most of the killing, they're laid at Mandy's feet as the mastermind.
As for Emmet, I don't see him counting; he gets somewhat Alas, Poor Villain death due to Mandy manipulating him, and implies he loves his mother in the suicide pact ("Don't shoot me in the face, my mom would want an open casket.") With a killing spree seeing seven victims (counting Mandy throwing Emmet under the bus), IMO, Mandy passes as a one off horror villain. We have other one shot horror candidates up for less.
Edited by Beast on Feb 10th 2024 at 12:25:57 PM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yeah, sure.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Gentle Laborer
Huh... Did we relax the "genre baseline" for horror movies? Thought that was only for cartoons and animated films. Abstaining on Mandy.
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Goku Black
I uh don't think we did. I thought the mods only let us relax on kids media.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Lizzid people!
Seem to remember more or less the idea that all genres have villains and can be analyzed on a case by case basis/individuality of stories. Like Beast did say it was a straight slasher for one.
Could be wrong though. Am willing to grant a slight "yes."
Edited by AustinDR on Feb 10th 2024 at 1:00:28 AM
Goku Black
Was that allowed. I don't rember the mods giving us permission for that.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I thought it was for all genres.
Though honestly, I'm fine with her counting regardless.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
As far as I can find, this was the last it was brought up.
Goku Black
what did mods say ?
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Not the Eye
Gonna give Mandy. 7 seems like enought for standalone lower stakes slasher.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Annis, thought banger song
Have been scroling former CM page, looking at ban evader ones, and this guy cauch my attention
What is the work?
Middlewest is 18 issue fantasy comic writen by Skottie Young and published by Image Comics. Plot follows young Abel who lives in small town in fantasy like Middlewest, his closest friend being talking Fox while he deals with his abusive father. Then one day his father turns into storm monstrusity after argument with him and wrecks the town, sending Abel to adventure of self discovery as he learns about himself and what truly makes family. All while his father searches for him and leaves trail of destruction.
And second half of comic gives us this guy
Who is Nicolas Raider? What has he done?
Man who own half of Middlewest and control’s field of Ethol, plant which is used as fuel. He runs his farms by having hundreds runaway children kidnaped and forced to work on his fields of higly flamable Ethol. Introduced when Abel and his friend Bobby are brought to his farm, he has boy who tries to run away electrocuted to death, making it clear it is fate of every child that tries to escape. He also has one boy’s arm (thankfully under protective suit) set to flame with Ethol.
When Abel saves his worker from burning to Ethol, Nicolas takes interest in him, offering him to become leader of group and maybe even permament employe. Abel however uses his position to plan escape, only for Nicolas to reveal he was aware and decided to let it happen to see how boy gates as leader, not that he intended to let them go. He is about to beat Abel, when army of people whose children were stolen by Nicolas shows up, led by circus Abel and Bobby are part off.
Nicolas orders them kids and people who came to save them killed, trying to force Abel to watch a bloodshed and telling him its his faul. Fire however gives Abel chance to escape. While Nicolas is chasing after him to finish him off, he is faced by circus leader Magdalena, has previously made deal with him to turn blind eye to his evil as long as he leaves them alone. She uses her magic to traps him in her mind with abberatins of countles children enslaved by him created from her guilt.
Nicolas breaks the vision however and is about to kill her, until Abel transforms and kills him.
Reddeming qualities?
Guy can be polite and sure loves to talk about giving kids home, even saying to Abel that man who saved him has daugther to return to. But both that and his seeming fodnes for Abel are shown to be facade, he has no problem mistriating his adult workers, using man Abel saved purely as tool for manipulation and when Abel stands up to him, Nicolas forced him to watch as he massacres innocents before attempting to kill him.
Heinous standard?
Abel’s father (who is light years from this) has caused destrcution all over Middlewest in his search for Abel, but he is powerfull storm Elemental who wasn’t in control during his transformations. Nicolas however is normal human who runs large operation of child slavery and orders both his slaves and army who came to save them Massacred.
Conclusion?
Yes
Edited by EmperorGeode on Feb 10th 2024 at 1:04:00 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Jogo
to Nicolas Raider and Mandy
to Black Annis
Edited by jlvs200s on Feb 10th 2024 at 10:09:10 AM
"Stand Proud, Sukuna, you are strong" | He/Him
Not the Eye
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
He extreme Troubled Abuser who does geniunelly care about Abel, but horrible abuse he was subjected to by his own father (who dosen’t do anything expect throw out Abel in cold when he seems him dassapointment, despite being powerfull Elemental himself) and stres from his wife leaving him turn him horrible.
He even endins comic reconciling with his son and accepting that he would rather stay with his Found Family. Plus as staded he wasn’t exactly in control when causing all that destruction.
Closest to other keeper is one of guys on Nicolas’s payrol, who is apperently child Eater in adition to getting slaves for him. But he only ever tries to eat Abel with no patern on any other kills except of hand remark that train where he first encounters Abel is his “hunting ground” while othervise being just another of bunch who get kids for farms.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
List is visible on former CM page under by troper section.
Edited by EmperorGeode on Feb 10th 2024 at 1:16:58 AM
The Ultimate Lifeform
to Nicolas Raider and Mandy! Out of curiosity Geode, do you think you could link some of those ban evader CM's to me? I probably won't be familiar with the source material, but I am sure I could hunt it down so I can do a proper EP on some.
to Anis.
Edited by ForgoLight on Feb 10th 2024 at 1:11:49 AM
"Us weirdos have to stick together!"
RIP Toriyama
- The Saint newspaper strip:
- "Hell": Professor Zoran is an unusual Outside-Genre Foe for the Saint: a Mad Scientist with an army of technically-living zombies. On a warped quest to find out the secret of immortality, Zoran subjects hundreds of innocent people to experiments meant to make them live forever. Inevitably, the process utterly destroys their minds, leaving them empty shells that Zoran reconditions to be his mindlessly obedient slaves. In a particular display of cruelty, Zoran orders one of these "zombies" to cut his own throat open to demonstrate to the Saint how thoroughly he controls them. Zoran also subjects the Girl of the Week to a drug that leaves her a prisoner in her own body, helpless to resist his commands but tortuously aware of every second she's kept under the drug's influence.
- "Valdor": Prince Hugo, the "most unscrupulous man in all of Valdor," usurps the throne of his country by assassinating his noble cousin Prince Paul. To rid himself of Paul's daughter Elaine, the last legitimate heir to the throne, Hugo attempts to bomb a commercial airliner filled with people just to get rid of her, a disaster only narrowly prevented by the Saint. Hugo also has his own secret police, which he uses to disappear any dissidents into a Hellhole Prison where they will be tortured and inevitably executed.
Edited by Ravok on Feb 10th 2024 at 1:31:59 AM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Lost in Space
We did not remove the genre baseline rule. However, we determined that it was being misapplied. A genre should be judged according to the average expectation of heinousness among its villains, not the 99th percentile.
Example: a G-rated work may typically feature villains who try to kill. Therefore, murder (or murderous intent) alone is not enough. There have to be some exceptional elements.
Edited by Fighteer on Feb 10th 2024 at 4:25:31 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Ah, gotcha. So an action movie keeper doesn't necessarily have to kill hundreds, but probably has to have at least double digits?
Clarification appreciated. I still say yes for Mandy.
Ravok, you posting that Saint show one?
Edited by ACW on Feb 10th 2024 at 4:27:44 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Anise, but to Mandy and Nicholas. Great job Geode and thanks for your hard work.
Wish success and good work to Forgo and thank you for making a real EP. I myself have a viewing planned for the work for the villain proposed by the ban evader.
Edited by Ghal-Sur on Feb 10th 2024 at 1:30:00 AM
Lost in Space
I wouldn't say that body count in and of itself matters. A Million Is a Statistic, and collateral or offscreen deaths don't have as much emotional impact as, say, the villain hanging someone from a meathook by their genitals while disemboweling their children in front of them.
Heck, I've seen action movies where the heroes rack up more kills than the villains. They're Mooks, so they don't count from a moral perspective, but this is why I maintain that we can't use arbitrary metrics like that.
Edited by Fighteer on Feb 10th 2024 at 4:32:59 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]")
Fair enough but I would argue that the fact there’s evidence of her previous victims and her having goals is enough to establish a plot
In honor of Akira Toriyama