Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yeah. Sorry I someone wrote the name of the hero instead of the CM.
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
ACW: While the kill count is unknown, given that the Kingdom of the Hellborn is pretty much a Hollywood Satanist cult, I'd say the death toll would be likely in the hundred thousands at worst.
The Mad Cr0w: It's very likely that Burgundy will collapse since the devs removed Goering's content (AKA pretty much the only route where Burgundy doesn't collapse and is very likely to launch nukes if invaded), so the Burgundian System is likely not going to exist once the 70s roll over. It's also very likely that it doesn't exist in After Midnight. That, and much like some of nazis, they also employ slave labor and torture as well. Sorry that I forgot to mention about this.
Plus, he also assisted in Taboritsky turning Russia into a wasteland as well- he practically rendered in unhabitable alongside the others in the name of national purification, and that was before he turned into a Satanist.
P.S. I'm getting absolutely sick of people using Burgundy as the heinous standard. There's a very good reason why Burgundy is considered to be the most controversial aspects of the mod, and not just because of the Burgundian System.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Some believe that the Burgundy effectively being German North Korea effectively destroys any semblance of realism, given how the Burgundian System (and Esoteric Nazism) downplaying the horrors of actual National Socialism, given that vanilla Nazism being viewed as a lighter shade of black compared to Esoteric Nazism effectively ruins the point that Nazism as an ideology cannot be whitewashed and if acknowledged as successful ideology, it would continue the spread of hatred throughout the world.
Edited by Siegfried1337 on Jan 18th 2024 at 5:24:53 AM
MB Pending | MB Drafts | MB Dates
Showtime!
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
To Laura and Abaddon
Abstain on Lapino, he's in a weird place relative to seeing his crimes
I don't know why they're controversial, but if they're the worst they're going to be a huge part of the heinous standard
Gentle Laborer
You're sick of people correctly using Burgundy, the worst nation in all of TNO, as the heinous standard...? It doesn't matter if the Burgundian System ceases to exist once Burgundy collapses, it's still part of history and therefore part of the heinous standard. My downvote remains, the only thing unique about Abaddon is his use of Hollywood Satanism and even that is not enough when there are so many genocides occuring in the world TNO. Hell, Taboritsky himself spends his entire rule exterminating minorities and deploying chemical weapons against against his own people.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Jan 18th 2024 at 10:55:21 AM
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
So when Gutrum Vagner does the same, it's ok, but Abaddon doesn't? I am honestly confused by your logic right here. The next thing we know, we're suddenly bringing back the Van Zant rule in full force, selectively rejecting candidates because of some "not bad enough" rule even though they have a unique niche tied to them.
I see.
Edited by Siegfried1337 on Jan 18th 2024 at 6:15:12 AM
MB Pending | MB Drafts | MB Dates
Showtime!
We never cut the "Van Zant rule", there's always been a place where resources and uniqueness stop mattering in the face of the heinous standard
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
I’m good for Laura and yes to Lapino. Personally I’m abstaining on Abaddon but you’re gonna have to cool it Sieg, you’re getting pretty accusatory and making bad faith assumptions about what Crow’s line of thinking will do to the trope and it’s just getting too intense and disrespectful.
Might wanna take a step back then, for your own sake, this site shouldn't have such a deep impact on someone's mental state. We're just saying yes or no to candidates here and if it's not fun here, a quick breather might help.
Edited by 43110 on Jan 18th 2024 at 9:36:02 AM
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
Ah, sorry. The stress caused by the one-two punch of the mass removals of G-Editor and Echidna's entries alongside another incident in the MB proposal thread overtook me for a while. I really should stop using this as an excuse since not too many are going to be kind towards it however.
Yeah, things haven't been exactly the same since September 2023.
Edited by Siegfried1337 on Jan 18th 2024 at 6:40:02 AM
MB Pending | MB Drafts | MB Dates
OK, I have another proposal for the SCP subpage. This is of SCP-953 Polymorphic Humanoid.
Gentle Laborer
I did not propose Gutrum Vagner (or the other TNO keepers, for that matter) and I'm not really familiar with the character. My main issue with Abaddon lies in the fact that TNO is a world Nazism not only won but is seen as A Lighter Shade of Black, there are lots genocidal maniacs slaughtering tons of people on every side of the globe. The Nazis won and subjulgated all of Europe; Burgundy and their fanboys purge countless "weak" people from their ideal society; Taboristky uses weapons of mass destruction against civilians on a constant basis; Huttig's plan to turn all of Africa into a concentration camp results in the entire continent being engulfed in chaos; the Black League is driven by a desire to exterminate Germany from the face of the Earth; Nobusuke wants to turn all of Japan's colonies into slave empires, the list goes on and on and on. If we had more information on how the Kingdom of the Hellborn works then I'd be more lenient but we have absolutely nothing beyond "they sacrifice people to Satan".
Thank you, Xie.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Jan 18th 2024 at 12:56:16 PM
Hi, I am the guy that proposed the TNO characters here and also gave Huttig a shot before he was voted down and I'm going to say this.
Personally I think we should hold off on Abaddon until the post-German rework AKA the planned soft reboot of the storyline because of conflicting visions between two different writing teams—the old writing team views Esoteric Nazism(known back then as the Burgundian System) as the worst form of Nazism, while the new writing team believes that the perception of Esoteric Nazism as such downplays and even whitewashes the evil of "normal" Nazism. As it stands? ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Abaddon.
We know that Burgundy will be taking on a reduced role in the story if it remains at all, that Heydrich would be a more clear antagonist rather than be A Lighter Shade of Black and end up killing himself out of despair once he sees just what sort of monster he is to the German people. There is also the fact that Bormann is stated to be pretty damn evil on his own right from the research the new writers on the basis that he was even more into the mass genocide of Slavs than Himmler. We could well have Heydrich and Bormann qualify in the future and Himmler potentially fail the HS, or qualify as this trope in another way.
Why am I pointing this out? We are seeing likely a huge shift in the heinousness standards that could see other candiates that did not qualify due to the HS qualify in the future. This is however years away and so the current lore has to be taken into consideration.
While the elements of the planned soft reboot is already seeping into the mod(specifically the removal of Esoteric Nazism as a unique ideology), currently the lore is mostly unchanged. And as it stands? There's nothing unique that Abaddon does that Velimir also dosen't do(human sacrifices, Religion of Evil) on top of the various genocidal regimes already present in the mod. He is also not uniquely psycopathic compared to the rest of Taboritsky's flunkies—neither Evutokvich nor Dikiy display any remorse at all and Diky is fully sane.
Edited by xie323 on Jan 18th 2024 at 8:11:41 AM
Goku Black
abaddon than for now at least. Maybe in the reboot.
This is something I have been wondering, and I might need some other HOI4 fan to assist me on this.
Does Max Bauer, AKA the secret Fascist leader for Germany from Kaiserreich: Legacy of the Weltkrieg qualify? He's, with the removal of Pelley, easily the most evil of the National Populist dictators to appear in the mod, with every one of his focuses causing mass death and the implication that he always had those insane ideas rather than take "harsh measures" to try and salvage a losing war. However there is one focus at the end of his tree if he actually wins that makes me question things.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Speaking of Pelley...are the versions with him still available? Because if not, keeping him up seems like keeping up a fanfic CM despite the fanfic having been removed.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Showtime!
Switching to to Abaddon then
I think you can still access older versions of the mod so I think he could stay on here.
Edited by xie323 on Jan 18th 2024 at 8:34:49 AM
Ultimate Moral Compass
Abaddon
Not the Eye
Switch to Abaddon
- Forbidden Worlds issue 145's "Case of the Bottled Microbes": Mr. Ravel is a foreign agent tasked with delivering deadly germs to America so other agents can spread them across the country’s water reservoirs. He tests germs on a random lake before coming to New York and gathering other agents. Ravel presents them with germs and shows glee at what the germs will be used for.
for Abbadon, but I think yes for the 953 image.
I only got one vote when I posted this last time, so I'd like to ask again what the thoughts are on this quote.
The Undercover Troper
What is the work?
Wishology is a series of three made-for-TV movies and the Season Finale to Season 6 of The Fairly OddParents!.Who is the candidate and what have they done?
The Destructinator is the commander of the Darkness' army of Eliminators and a destroyer of planets. Seemingly assisting the Darkness in its plan to make a friend, he skews his orders so he can plot to kill Timmy Turner. After his first attempt fails, he launches a raid on the planet Yugopotamia to steal their fake-i-fiers and disguise himself as Timmy's family so he can suck Timmy and Mark Chang into a black hole, but not before capturing Timmy's fairies, family, and friends and holding them all hostage. After Timmy learns of the Darkness' true nature, the Destructinator turns against his master and uses a kitchen sink to power up into his ultimate form, using it to mechanize the Earth and turn all its inhabitants into mindless robots. He then plants thousands of bombs into the Earth's core and plans to launch it into the Darkness to kill it, Timmy, and the citizens of Earth in one big explosion. Ax-Crazy and completely remorseless, the Destructinator is the one villain who terrorized more than just Dimmsdale.Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
None whatsoever. Him helping the Darkness is all just a front for him to commit as much death and destruction as possible.Are they bad enough?
For the first two parts, he mostly relied on his Eliminator army to do most of his work, which tended to not go well, but mechanizing the Earth and outfitting the core with bombs was all by his hand after absorbing M.E.R.F.'s kitchen sink, ironically meaning that he had more power through less resources. As for the heinousness factor, one thing to keep in mind is that, despite being a comedy-driven show, The Fairly OddParents! has a good habit of treating most of its villains as genuine threats. While fully comedic exceptions such as Dark Laser exist, villains such as Crocker in Abra-Catastrophe!, the Nega-Chin, Vicky in Channel Chasers, and Maryanne are all treated as legitimate threats in spite of having their comedic moments. The same holds true for the Destructinator, as while he has comedic moments in "The Big Beginning" and "The Exciting Middle Part", he takes himself completely seriously in "The Final Ending" and commits quite possibly the worst crime in all of The Fairly OddParents!, as while most villains in the show simply want to Take Over the World, he's the only one who outright tries to destroy it in his plan to kill Timmy and the Darkness.Final verdict?
I think the Destructinator is a strong keep. Orcus on His Throne will always be my pet peeve.
Any opinion on my other image?
Woagh
to Destructinator, i vividly remember the show playing his terminator parody role for comedy.
Also world threatening schemes aren't unique, the Yugopotamiansblow up planets as part of a holiday they celebrate. Multiple other villains have also attempted to destroy the Earth.
The Emperor of Evil!
No to the Destructioninator, he legit starts out as a blatant parody of the Terminator for majority of his screentime and he still has comedic moments after he ditched it all, the guy if not really that seriously played in Wishology imo.
Goku Black
Destructinator
