Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
for the Malcolm Hargrove quote.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
for Jeb.
Abstain on Kuroda. Even if it's only a single line brought up once, I'm not sure wether or not it's genuine. I guess that means Nekku is perma banned.
for the Dad.
for Kanto.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'll lean yes because of the Cannon, but is the game canon (![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
)?
Also, I can never forgive the show for making Darkseid—who took over Brainiac and was gonna beat Supes—just stop because of Luthor.
Edited by ACW on Dec 18th 2023 at 7:24:15 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Will this image of Jindiao from Kung Fu Panda: The Paws of Destiny work for the CM image subpage? It's him cackling at the destruction of the Panda Village 
@ Ravok, sorry, I didn't know you were about to send a PM, lol. Yeah, I gotta agree, if this was a lower-level demon or some mind-control villain, I think that would be bad enough, but not for the Devil. Oh well, I have some Marvel novels I am reading that should have some keepers.
Yes to Kanto.
The Ultimate Lifeform
No to the image, it's not really clear what's happening and I can barely see Jiandao
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
RIP Toriyama
I don't see any reason the game wouldn't be canon, most of the voice actors are the same and nothing in it goes against any material in the show itself. So I think it's canon.
@Overlord: No prob!
Edited by Ravok on Dec 18th 2023 at 4:41:45 AM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
for Jindiao image. I didn't even know he was in the picture until I zoomed in. Little hard to comprehend what's happening.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Aight MGD's guy is coming this week so once theirs is written up ACW, you can do the swap for the tree? Me and Rav have decided to halt on our last guys for now due to heinous concerns but they may be EP'd in the future. When? No idea lmao.
As for now here's my pair. Feedback is welcome folks! The Trickster goes at the top of the tree.
- The Trickster is an interdimensional entity from beyond the universe who stands out as Sarah Jane's Arch-Enemy and the series Vile Villain, Saccharine Show. Commanding the "Trickster Brigade", the Trickster is responsible for altering humanities' timeline in which the Earth has become a fascistic dystopia with countless dead. Wanting to cause a meteorite to crash into Earth for the reason of it's unpredictability, The Trickster makes a bargain with the 13 year old Andrea Yates to save her life at the cost of Sarah's — causing the present-day Sarah to be locked out of existence and therefore unable to stop the meteor from wiping out all life. The Trickster's next scheme involved luring Sarah to the moment in time where her parents died to have her revert the accident — allowing him to materialise in the universe in which he wipes out billions of humans, has the Earth in an apocalyptic state and has the remaining humans enslaved with the intentions of spreading his malice across the universe. In his final appearance, The Trickster manipulates the kind-hearted Peter Dalton to blossom a relationship between her and him so that The Trickster can brainwash her and have her retire from protecting the Earth, leaving the planet ripe for the destruction and death that hostile aliens would bring to it.
- Warriors Of Kudlak: Mr Granthan is the human conspirator of Kudlak who lacks his boss' noble traits and intentions. Setting up multiple Combat 3000 arenas across the UK, Grantham allows Kudlak to kidnap the winners to be used as soldiers within a war in space — something that Grantham is aware of but uncaring so long as he gets to line his pockets. When Sarah and Maria are caught investigating by Grantham, he holds them at gunpoint.
Insert title here
Dad and Kanto
Gentle Laborer
Psycho Dad and Kanto
The Wolf (goodness that's a chilling short), Claire's father, Kanto.
Switch to Abstain for the missile mouse candidates.
Wolf, Jeb, Clifford, Kuroda, Claire's Dad, Kanto
to Kanto.
What’s the work?
EDENS ZERO is an science fantasy Anime/Manga series created by Hiro Mashima, the same author who did Fairy Tail, Rave Master, and Dead Rock. The main character is named Shiki Granbell and his crew are searching for a space goddess called Mother.Who is he what has he done?
Drakken Joe is a member of the Oración Seis Galáctica a group composed of six notorious outlaws who are some of the strongest beings in the cosmos. He is a crime lord who drained the lives of countless people in order to extend his life for over 200 years. And still does in on the Belial Gore, draining the life of all the residents of the city including those who are enslaved due to not being able to pay off their debts to him.As DJ Zombie he was responsible for the deaths of dozens including Weisz Steiner’s mother.
When he took over the planet of Guilst turning the once prosperous planet into a lawless planet completely corrupted with criminals of all kinds. Which lead to Rebecca and several other women to be kidnapped by Illega.
As a loan shark he brutally tortures a man who was late on paying his debt plus interest. Instead of killing him he has him dragged away to be forced into labor to pay back the debt. But not before he shattered the glass bottle he forced in his mouth by kicking it, shattering the glass in his mouth completely disfiguring it. And has many others enslaved in order to pay off their debts.
When Spider a hacker under his employee informs him about his incident with the EDENS ZERO Crew he grew furious that Spider unknowingly tarnished his reputation and has him killed.
He makes a deal with the tyrannical despot Madame Kurenai to capture the EDENS ZERO only to steal her satellite blaze a weapon capable of destroying worlds.
Had Labilia brutally tortured in a messed up way to please an imprisoned Rebecca who was horrified by the act.
When the EDENS ZERO Crew are defeated he has Weisz’s arm sliced off and killed Shiki in front of everyone and this probably would have been the end of the series if not for Rebecca’s Cat Leaper ability.
Plans to use Kurenai’s laser to destroy the planet Blue Garden.
Redeeming Qualities? Freudian Excuse?
As a child he came from a planet where the children were experimental guinea pigs that only had a 15 year lifespan, he learned Alchemy in order to figure out a way to extend his life in order to make friends. However he abandoned this goal in order to live forever and uses his alchemy to build his criminal empire no matter how many lives he has to hurt or kill, making this Freudian Excuse no longer being justified and having no influence for all his cruel actions.Heinousness?
He was the first major antagonist of the series, whose actions have influenced several of the first arcs of the series. Him draining the lives of countless people to extend his own, including one of the main characters mother, enslaved people to pay off any money they borrowed plus interest, engaged in brutal torture, has no hesitation in killing off anyone who offends him including his own subordinates, turning an entire planet to a wretched crime infested wasteland, planning to destroy another planet, even managing to kill one of the main protagonists and would have succeeded if not for a last minute time leap. Overall he has definitely shown why he is one of the most evil characters in the series.Final Verdict?
Overall I would have to say that he is a yes.Edited by Phantom25 on Dec 18th 2023 at 6:00:52 AM
Just wondering, is anyone covering the Chicken Run sequel?
So this is a character, or rather a incarnation of an existing CM that I have speculated qualified for this trope for a long time, but couldn't prove because I don't read Japanese. However, thanks to some previous understanding of the game’s lore and some google translate apps—which is actually half decent or decent enough that I can understand what is being talked about, I think I can do this effortpost. Do note that there is another CM in this same work that I will get to later.
What is the Work?
SD Gundam G Generation DS is a crossover tactical RPG game(arguably the best handheld Gundam G Generation game) featuring a crossover between multiple Universal Century Gundam series, Mobile Suit Gundam SEED, and ∀ Gundam as well as a extremely Compressed Adaptation of both Gundam Wing and Mobile Fighter G Gundam that removes down multiple characters and cuts down the plot to the point where it can fit with others. In addition, the protagonist from After War Gundam X and a few characters from Gundam Seed Destiny shows up as well. It is part of the SD Gundam G Generation turn based RPG series that usually does a reenactment of various Gundam anime plots akin to a couple of the Lego games, but this is one of the few with its' own storyline that isn't a straight-up Excuse Plot.
The game has basically two plotlines, one dealing with UC story arcs, another and a shorter third plotline only available in your third playthrough. My recommendation for anyone interested in this is to do AU route for first playthrough, UC for secondnote , and the "secret" route for third.
The game starts with you following various Zeon soldiers that fought in the last days One Year War, before moving on to the crossover storyline where they join forces with either the AEUG or the Archangel Crew. To make people not feel too guilty about playing as Space Fascists, the game has you rarely fight the White Base Crew or more sympathetic Federation personnel unless you are say, directly, aiding Char against Amuro or participating in a major battle in the OYW where the White Base or more heroic Federation military figures(ie: General Revil) are involved. rather you fight the mobile suit corps commanded by Bask Om, Yazan Gable, and Jamaican Daninghan—characters we know will help form the Titans in Zeta Gundam.
While seeing the story from Zeon's perspective has become more and more controversial the more we know about Japan's horrific history in the real world regardless of how bad the Federation has treated the Colonies, the game still reminds you that Zeon's leader is REALLY bad, especially with more resources under his disposal that he can use to fulfill his genocidal plans for humanity.
What has Gihren done this time?
As in Gundam UC canon, Gihren Zabi, Supreme Commander of the Principality of Zeon, starts the One Year War by gassing colonies and dropping them onto Earth, killing half of the human population. These atrocities are not Offscreen Villainy—in the second playthrough the first stage is literally Cima Garahau expressing shock and horror at being manipulated into gassing a colony. During the OYW era stages, when Zeon receives intel of the Federation preparing the Gundam Alex in Side 6, Gihren sends Colonel Killing to investigate. As in Gundam 0080, Killing tries to get Side 6 nuked. However, your squad refuses to let that happen and turn on Colonel Killing at that moment, killing him. Gihren goes on to be compared to Hitler by his father, then killing his father and General Revil for trying to make peace and seemingly gets killed by Kycilia as per the UC canon. Except it dosen't quite go like that.
It turns out that some time before the end of the OYW, Gihren has captured some scouts from the Moonrace that were sent back to the past to prepare the Earth Sphere for the arrival of the Moonrace from the future, with the Moonrace going back in time to prevent the collapse of civilization in the Earth Sphere as recorded in the Black History. Gihren learned of what Kycilia would do once Degwin was killed and faked his death, going into the shadows with a couple of fanatical Spacenoid supremacists and Zeon scientists to prepare for his resurgence.
Seeing the eventual destruction of civilization as validation for his anti-Earthnoid beliefs, Gihren seeks to destroy all of humanity, leaving only the few that he deems to be pure to rule over what remains. To achieve this plan he sought to create supersoldiers known as the Legion that would be created by mixing Newtype and Coordinator DNA to create a type of human only bred for war. He and his followers would create one successful test subject, D.Trial. Through that test subject escaped and joined the AEUG as Dee Triel, they would use her DNA to create an army of "Machine Children" that would be purely bred for war. When the Moonrace revealed themselves after Operation Stardust, Gihren would start the production of the Centurio Mobile suits—reverse engineered Turn A and Turn X Gundams mass produced with the same Nanomachines that destroyed civilization in the Black History.
Gihren would resurface after either the defeat of ZAFT, the Titans, and Axis Zeon in the UC route or the defeat of ZAFT, Blue Cosmos, and OZ in the AU route. He and his followers take over GENESIS in the former route upon Patrick Zala's death or Libra in the latter route, seeking to use either superweapon to destroy all of humanity. He and the Legion then capture Dee Triel and brainwash her into another mindless Legion soldier. The protagonists save her and chase the rest of the Legion into the core of whatever superweapon Gihren seeks to use, where they engage the Legion in one final battle. During that battle, Gihren openly declares his intent to use the Moonlight Butterfly as a weapon, believing it to have been "unfairly stigmatized" by the Black History. In the UC route, if Anavel Gato has been recruited by the heroes, then he will fully cut ties with Gihren and renounce Spacenoid supremacy.
If the Legion is defeated in the UC route, Gihren will blow himself up with a bomb in GENESIS's control room rather than face any punishment for his crimes, seemingly accepting his death in the final moments. The Neo Zeon forces eventually fall under the control of Char Aznable, whom has left the AEUG, setting the stage for the postgame UC campaign.
In the AU route him and his supporters consider either firing Libra's cannons on Earth or crashing Libra into the Earth and taking humanity down with them. Doctor J sneaks onto Libra and convinces Gihren that it's all over for them. Then, entrusting the future to Heero and the Archangel Crew, Doctor. J blows up the Libra, taking Gihren down with him. The battle is won, but at the cost of so many Legion clones whom never had the chance to have a normal life.
In the secret route, which is accessed in the third playthough by shooting down Amuro during the battle of A Baoa Qu with anyone BUT Char, Amuro will die and Char will-following the plot of the novel trilogy-revolt against the Zabi family. Gihren is forced to take the stage in battle and is cleanly killed. However, Gihren's legacy persists and the Zeon scientists will work with ZAFT and Rau Le Creuset to create the Legion project and make his mad dreams of total human genocide a reality.
Redeeming Quality?
Ha. Even his claims of wanting to destroy humanity because "the Black History shows why humanity cannot continue to exist" is less of actual well-intentioned extremism and more of him trying to validate his already horrific anti-Earth bigotry. Also his "excuse" is presented as massively hypocritical, as he is perfectly aware of what the Moonlight Butterfly did to human civilization, but perfectly willing to weaponize it for his goals and unironically feeling the weapon gets a "bad rap".
While he does seem to accept his death in both routes, it's less played for sympathy and more shock that “Wow, I can’t believe you actually destroyed my army!” in his last moments to the Gundam Pilots of the various timelines for stopping him.
Heinousness Standard?
It's Gihren so he already has a massive bodycount on him. Now, thought Gihren couldn't be made even worse? Think again. He openly seeks to destroy all of humanity with either one or another superweapon and conducts human experimentation to create an army of newtype-coordinator hybrids purely bred for war on top of Mobile suits armed with technology that LITERALLY DESTROYED THE WORLD, and this is on top of shifting from "kill half of the human" population to "kill almost everything and rule over the ashes". All of the Legion clones are sentient and, as the secret route reveals, capable of developing human emotions, so he is literally breeding a army of actual sentient humans for war and depriving any of them a chance to have any normal life. And even in the bonus route he was killed before he could fully put his plans into motion, his actions still haunt the Earth Sphere with his followers integrating into ZAFT and seeking to finish his work by all means necessary.
Verdict?
Easy , I'll get to the other CM from the same game later.
Edited by xie323 on Dec 19th 2023 at 5:22:35 AM
Showtime!
To Gihren
I'd need some pretty solid evidence to discount that as a Freudian Excuse
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse? Gihren, echoing Library for Drakken
Also Chicken Run 2 has been reserved by Ravok
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Ultimate Moral Compass
Drakken, his FE is pretty front and center
Drakken—for now.
A Child from the Stars
The Ultimate Lifeform
to Gihren, and to Drakken.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Oh and Kanto and Ghiren, didn’t mean to ignore them
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Sounds like Kanto is a![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]")
"If we're gonna play Owl House, we're gonna NEED an Owl House!"