Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Sure to him. I assume the bomb is stopped?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Scavenger.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Ultimate Moral Compass
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yep, Honey manages to throw it in the sky just as it explodes, ensuring zero casualties.
Not the Eye
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Scavenger
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Scavenger
Also coincidentally, here's an IP for Cutey Honey.
Edited by WetFlannels on Oct 1st 2023 at 5:46:05 PM
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
Scavenger
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
- Sea of Stars: The Soul Curator manages the army in the Fleshmancer's lair, and is concerned only for his own safety and the power of his creations. In the past, the Soul Curator forced the humans in Seraï's homeworld to graft their souls onto immortal robots using a sapient and unwilling AI core so they can be fed on indefinitely by the Dweller of Dread, slowly driving them into despair and hopelessness. When the party storms the Fleshmancer's lair, the Soul Curator attempts to corrupt Zale, Valere, Seraï, and B'st into his minions, with the implication that he's done this before. When confronted, he runs away to the portal room where he orders four servants to sacrifice themselves to summon the Phase Reaper, who kills two more to intimidate the rest into following the Soul Curator's orders. When the Phase Reaper is killed, the Soul Curator attempts to summon Barma'thazël in a last-ditch effort to save himself, which would have violated the Fleshmancer's agreement with Brugaves to never have to fight the Solstice Warriors again.
Scavenger.
Lizzid people!
Scavenger
Last Sea of Stars candidate before I pursue the True Ending.
Who is Stormcaller? What does he do?
Stormcaller is the original captain of the Vespertine, who at first seemed to be an ordinary run of the mill pirate who desired riches and treasure above all else. When Hortence, his navigator, wished to leave the crew to pursue music, Stormcaller took this as a personal insult and decided to stop the ship in the middle of the ocean to get "that silly idea" out of Hortence's head, leaving himself, her, and the crew of the Vespertine at sea. For long days and nights were they stranded, first running out of patience, then out of food, then out of water. Eventually, the crew decided to hold a mutiny against Stormcaller, forcing him to walk the plank to his demise. Once Stormcaller fell, he spited the crew by conjuring an eternal prison known as the Sea of Nightmares, in which he would channel a deadly storm for the crew to endure for eternity. The crew slowly went insane over the course of centuries and had lost their minds by the time the player finds them, by which they're reduced to simple enemies. The only person who hasn't fallen over the course of these centuries is Hortence herself, who helps bring about his downfall when the party comes to claim the Vespertine for Seraï. Once he's taken care of, Hortence is freed from the realm to pursue music and Seraï (as Captain Klee'shae) takes the Vespertine for her pirate crew.
Heinousness?
Now, there's too much of a resource gap to compare him to the Fleshmancer, but the Soul Curator has also put people in Fates Worse than Death. He's a powerful wind mage, so he could easily have stalled the ship, but what makes him unique in my honest opinion is that his cruelty is directed almost exclusively towards his own crew, out of spite for one person who wants to leave the crew for her own reasons. So, despite the smaller scale, I think he can stand out.
Mitigating Factors?
I mean he has a cool sea monster for a pet, but there's no indication he actually cares about its wellbeing so. yeah
Verdict?
Weak .
Self-Declared King of Everything
to Scavenger.
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Buck. I would have voted yes if the Bride had been aware of what happened to her as it was happening but was still helpless to stop it, or if he had multiple victims, but as it stands, he's too outclassed.
for Scavenger
So the Stormcaller gave his whole crew A Fate Worse Than Death but how many victims has the Soul Curator?
According to Seraï, she and her entire people has had their souls grafted onto robots. This has to at least cover the town of Repine, but there may be humans we don't see. Admittedly, it's a little ambiguous, but I'll go for the lower estimate which is still pretty bad.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Abstain on Stormcaller.
ACW: Tomb Raider: Lara Croft is now a thing.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Not the Eye
Abstain on Stormcaller
Goku Black
scavenger
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
RIP Toriyama
- Grand Theft Auto: Vice City Stories: Marty Jay Williams is the redneck leader of the Trailer Park Mafia, who distinguishes himself as the worst abuser in the 3D universe. Marty uses his gang to run a protection racket threatening multiple innocents, and upon opening a brothel, he begins pimping out multiple women. Abusing his wife Louise for years, Marty threatens her life and the life of their baby on a regular basis to keep her in line, and when Louise finally tries to leave him, Marty kidnaps her with plans to force her into prostitution at his brothel.
- Grand Theft Auto IV: Dimitri Rascalov presents himself as a reasonable man in the criminal world, but he is actually a duplicitous, manipulative snake with no sense of morals, empathy or honor. Having created the Faustin crime syndicate with his best friend Mikhail, Dimitri uses Mikhail's violent ways to profit and oversees a wide variety of brutality, extortion and murders through the likes of Vlad. When Mikhail outlives his usefulness, Dimitri tricks Niko into murdering Mikhail, abandons Mikhail's wife and daughter to homelessness, then tries to kill Niko himself before burning down the business and entire apartment building of his cousin Roman. Dimitri is revealed to be in cahoots with the human trafficker Bulgarin, who Dimitri empowers for further mayhem while also beginning a country-wide cocaine operation that threatens to destabilize the whole nation. Running his criminal empire far more brutally than Mikhail ever did, Dimitri tries to massacre a Senator's convoy to silence his campaign and blackmails Bernie over his sexuality. In the "Deal" ending, Dimitri feigns agreement to a heroin deal only to turn on and slaughter the buyers, kill his ally Pegorino, and orchestrate Roman's death at his wedding, proving himself to be a spiteful opportunitist that every other criminal views with disdain.
Edited by Ravok on Oct 1st 2023 at 1:59:15 AM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
I could potentially see Stormcaller counting, but I'm iffy on the heinous standard details there. He definitely fits the pettiness/quality bill though.
for Scavenger.
Barb / Temporary Kylo
Eh, if he was putting the bride through that for 4 years that sounds like enough for me to give a weak to Buck personally(Yamada himself only barely has enough of a pattern IMO).
to Scavenger as well.
RIP Toriyama
Got one other from Rockstar to discuss today, with thanks to 43 for bringing this overlooked gem to my attention in the first place!
What's the work?
The Warriors is a neat, oft-overlooked adaptation of the Cult Classic film of the same name. Set in the late 70s in New York City, it follows a variety of small-time, youngster gangs all vying for supremacy in the streets. We follow the Warriors themselves, one of the more honorable gangs, as they are framed for the murder of a beloved gang leader and sent on the run through the city. The game shows their prequel journey building up to the events of the film, before the game itself recreates the events of the film, worsening its main antagonist:
Who is Luther? What has he done?
- A sniveling sadist with a high-pitched voice, Luther is the leader of the Outlaws gang, and is best describes as an agent of total chaos on the streets. He has no higher goal or desire for power beyond vague phone calls with an unseen "Boss", with Luther's only drive being cruelty in itself.
- An abusive dickhead of a leader to his gang who regularly threatens them, Luther at one point ditches two of his closest mooks to be brutally beaten to likely death by a rival gang, reacting to others' questionings of their whereabouts by implying he deliberately set the two up to die because he didn't like them.
- Luther kicks off a big part of the prequel plot when he senselessly murders a cop just because he likes the guy's gun, and Luther then proceeds to frame other gangs for it. It sparks a massive crackdown by police onto the gangs that leads to heavy bouts of police brutality and gang wars due to the treachery.
- Later, Luther is one of the many gangs invited by the charismatic Cyrus to a peaceful meetup. While Cyrus masterfully orates to the gathered gangs how they have potential to run the city if they will declare a truce, Luther gleefully shoots Cyrus dead, tries to murder a Warrior who spotted him pull the trigger, then frames the Warriors as the killers of Cyrus. The Warriors' leader Cleon is murdered by Cyrus's horrified followers, and the rest of them are then marked for death by the other gangs to be hunted down and killed for their "murder" of Cyrus.
- As the night proceeds, Luther revels in the massive gang wars and hunting down of the Warriors that his actions caused, and he ultimately tracks the Warriors down and challenges them to "Come out and plaaaaaaay!" He agrees to a fair fistfight with the new leader of the Warriors, Swan, only to pull a gun and try to shoot all of the Warriors dead when he begins to lose.
- After admitting that his motive for killing Cyrus was for "No reason. I just like doing things like that!", Luther is beaten and left to be dealt with by Cyrus's former gang, with a post-credit playable scene having the player gloriously beat the ever-loving shit out of Luther as punishment for his crimes.
Mitigating features?
None, he's a sleazy little Ax-Crazy creep with no complexity to him, just being a Psychopathic Manchild extraordinaire.
Heinousness?
In the movie itself "all" he does is murder Cyrus and frame the Warriors for it to be killed, which is bad yet not enough on its own...but the game adds in that he's a Bad Boss who abuses his minions and sets up two of them to die; a Cop Killer; and it further shows what a Manipulative Bastard he is as he frames other gangs for the cop's death and instigates a major police brutality campaign against the city. Coupled with his later murder of Cyrus and frame-up of the Warriors, it establishes him as a routinely For the Evulz bastard who causes city-wide chaos and promotes gang wars simply because he can. He's the worst by far in the game, surpassing Disc-One Final Boss Virgil in every way.
Edited by Ravok on Oct 1st 2023 at 3:20:43 AM
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Barb / Temporary Kylo
to Luther.
Ultimate Moral Compass
Luther
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Does he know all the chaos he will cause?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
On this day, 50 years ago, one of my favorite anime franchises made its debut, introducing me to one of my favorite anime characters and inspiring my teenage self to create my own stuff.
I'm talking about Cutey Honey of course! To honor the 50th anniversary of the titular Honey, I've decided to propose three characters from the franchise I've somehow overlooked. They might not all qualify, but it doesn't hurt to check.
Let's take it from the top.
What’s the Work?
New Cutey Honey is an OVA series I've discussed before several times, and remains my favorite entry in the franchise. One of the first things I've proposed on the CM thread, looking back, there's one guy I was kinda surprised I overlooked.
Who is He?
Scavenger, from the fifth episode "Challenge! Fangs of The Evil Beast", is a minor baddie who nevertheless possesses great evil in his short screen time, helping kickstart the episode’s main plot.
What has he done?
A Mad Bomber cyborg with big plans (and who apparently is wanted for homicide, arson, and robbery after being arrested 18 times), Scavenger hopes to unleash a Kohilento bomb that will destroy a large chunk of Cosplay City and vaporize anybody in the blast radius unless he’s paid 10 billion credits by Mayor Light. Scavenger even blows up a small part of the city as a demonstration to Light, stating the blast will be 100 times bigger.
Scavenger also hopes to use the city’s destruction to take over the late Dolmeck’s spot as Cosplay’s emperor of crime, competing against several other criminals who hope to take his place.
After being arrested thanks to Honey taking advantage of his fetish for nurses, Scavenger admits that the bomb will go off at midnight—in 30 minutes—happily anticipating sending everybody in the city to Hell.
Redeeming Qualities?
None.
Heinousness?
While New has a big heinous standard (Zora and Dolmeck are the highest on the tier list, Scorpion's not too far behind with less resources, Jewel Princess has a nasty niche), Scavenger is working with next to nothing: he's just one guy capable of making deadly bombs, with a lengthy criminal history, and has very little screen time, too.
And even Gene from the same episode, a thief who helps steal the bomb during a heist with her friends, intends to use the bomb to destroy most of the city. Thing is, Gene is basically possessed by Zora's essence, and while she becomes the main villain of the episode's second half, she's still carrying out Scavenger's plan that he set up and hoped to achieve.
But nevertheless, Scavenger's still perceived as a threat, his bomb capable of wiping out a giant chunk of the city and endangering the lives of millions, happily fully anticipating the amount of people he'll kill with it.
Conclusion
Keeper. Stay tuned for more Honey proposals over the next few days.
"No running in the halls!"