Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Not the Eye
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Seems like best course of action.
Caesar
Yep, do it STAR. Absolutely advocating for it. If someone has actually seen it and wants to discuss, fine, but this insistence on rushing to cut him based on secondhand information is silly.
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
The Ultimate Lifeform
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to the note for Vecna!
Goku Black
note
Whbe someone has seen it or read the script. I'll be fine removing. But for now let's table this till that happens.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
to The Note by a mile
Temp note added. Thanks for discussing it beforehand.
Local Axe Maniac, Lawsuit Pending
I want to propose an edit to Kamoshida's entry, if just a minor one:
- Suguru Kamoshida is a gym coach and a dangerous sexual predator. Protected by the school administration due to his past fame as an Olympic gold medalist, Kamoshida perversely extorts sexual favors from his female students, despite being a man in his 30s. He also forces his male students into brutal training regimes and often beats them, resulting in students of both genders living in constant fear of him. Seeking to shut down the track team, Kamoshida provokes their star athlete into punching him and breaks the boy's leg in "self-defense". When his "favorite" victim refuses to sleep with him, Kamoshida rapes her best friend Shiho Suzui in petty vengeance, resulting in Shiho attempting suicide. Sadistic, vain and predatory beyond measure, Kamoshida was only the first target of the Phantom Thieves, and he's still among the very worst they've ever faced.
I'm not sure what changed but that's way over potholed and I really think we can cut that last sentence altogether.
Also can I ask what the issue with the current entry (Taking off whatever summary sentence it may have) is? The character seems to be getting rewritten once a year.
Edited by 43110 on Dec 31st 2023 at 7:41:28 AM
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
I think the original writeup is good as it is
In honor of Akira Toriyama
Local Axe Maniac, Lawsuit Pending
Fair enough! Just a suggestion.
Collector of Worlds
to the note. Hopefully we can get definitive answers soon enough.
The Draftsman of Doom
By the way, The Dragon is under discussion in TRS.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Don't worry, just an expansion. I doubt it'll be a concern.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
That’s what I’m talking about, yes to note of Vecna
BTW what about G-Editor's other candidates and the Old Monk now?
I'm sure at least Old Monk is a cut now, right?
Goku Black
Aren't we going to wait a week or two to double check as much as we can.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Showtime!
I thought we were going to cut everyone that wasn;t vouched for this Weds?
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Goku Black
Yeah that was it. Speaking of let me go check Gallus.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Not the Eye
So Heart of a Jedi, Star Wars Fanfic from which I got version version of Prince Xizor, was deleted. I coun’t find any other link to it so just leaving note to cut Xizor’s entry from Star Wars Fanfic monster page.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Done.
Current Punisher header:
With The Punisher being Darker and Edgier, and the Black-and-Gray Morality of Frank Castle being an Anti-Hero who's willing to kill, to be a Complete Monster, one must REALLY stand out.
A proposed reformat, with character pages:
The Punisher is Darker and Edgier than many comics, and Frank Castle—regardless of incarnation—has no qualms over killing his foes. Several of said foes are vile enough to warrant this fate.
Edited by ACW on Jan 1st 2024 at 4:03:56 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I heard you needed someone who watched The First Shadow to give reflection on Henry Creel's character and if he belongs as CM. Hopefully I can be of assistance as I watched the play back in early December in London. From what I can recall, there are 3 major preventions that should give him the cut.
The first and probably most major is his lack of control when doing his evil deeds. It was revealed in a conversation with Dr. Brenner that during an outing, Henry had discovered a box containing the essence of the Mind Flayer and was overtaken by it in a similar fashion to Will Byers in Season 2. This is also the origin of his supernatural powers, but it came at the cost of the Mind Flayer now constantly being in his head and having a degree of control.
During the play, he would use his powers to kill his neighbors pets in order to subdue it and increase it's strength. This eventually went further as it desired human lives, something Henry was initially unwilling to do despite Dr Brenner offering him death row inmates that consented. He only starts killing people (beginning with his family) when the Mind Flayer takes over completely.
I've heard the argument that Henry was "groomed" as opposed to controlled, but that doesn't hold up in the narrative of the play. While I can understand the though process of this in his interactions with the Mind Flayer when it desires the lives of pets, there is one scene that proves definitively that Henry did not have control in his murders. That was during his encounter with Patty's father, Principal Newby, who had rushed over to the Creel household to force his daughter out of her relationship with Henry. During this time, Henry lost control over his powers and blinded/severely injured Principal Newby, nearly killing him.
While Patty was speaking to her father in the hospital, believing it was Henry who did this, Principal Newby told her that he saw into Henry's mind and didn't blame him for what happened. In fact, he actually credited Henry to having saved his life by actively fighting off the Mind Flayer, saying he was in danger. This was not Principal Newby looking for the best in Henry as it's made clear he did not approve of him and it would be out of character for him to shift the blame off Henry if he was truly responsible.
While there are other things that insinuate to Henry's lack of control (his change in voice/attitude) this scene is most hard hitting.
Another prevention would be his tragedy revealed during this play. While in season 5 Henry claimed Dr. Brenner was not responsible for the person he became, this turned out to be a lie he told himself to deal with the Mind Flayer's control over him. After his incident with Principal Newby, Dr. Brenner is hired to deal with him and attempts to coax him into using his powers by verbal abuse. After having done so, he hugs Henry and manipulates him into seeing him as a paternal figure.
After failing to get Henry to kill a man on death row to increase his power. Dr. Brenner continues to verbally berate him in a way for him to cut loose. This eventually leads to him trying to get him to kill Patty Newby, as she was the only person keeping him from giving in (ultimately leading Patty's near death experience).
It wasn't just Dr. Brenner as well, Henry's mother constantly kept him sheltered and prohibited him from talking to any other children. She was the one who hired Dr. Brenner to take him in. Overall, Henry is far to tragic for CM.
The final prevention is Henry's love for Patty. Henry bonded with Patty over their shared struggles and love for superheroes. She was constantly keeping him from losing it completely and having the Mind Flayer take control. While he does nearly kill her at the end of the play, that was while nearly fully under the Mind Flayer's influence, with Dr. Brenner coaxing him into going through with it. It's even implied that Henry still cared about Patty while being controlled by the Mind Flayer as after a flash forward, it's insinuated that he's still watching over her as she reunites with her mother (something Henry went out of his way to help her do).
Hopefully this helps illustrating Henry's preventions and why he should be considered for cutting from CM. Have a good one
The Moron
Okay, now that we have someone who has actually seen the play, I'm willing to cut Vecna with all that. Thank you very much for your input!
Thank you for putting this to rest. Axe Henry/Vecna
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Appreciate the very thorough explanation and I’ll vote for a formal cut with that in mind!
