Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the new Complete Monster (CM) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List. Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a CM has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's CMs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any CM link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an CM link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved CMs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their CM equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:30:03 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
You're probably right. Done.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
he/him
Monster.The Incredible Hulk includes this entry for Nick Trask:
- The Savage She-Hulk Vol. 1 issues #1-5: Nicholas "Nick" Trask is a crime boss and the very first foe faced by Jennifer Walters. Responsible for the death of She-Hulk's mother in the past, Trask would later murder his own bodyguard and frame one of his rivals Monkton, and later tried to have Jennifer killed. After causing the death of Jennifer's close friend, Trask constructed a robot duplicate to murder several people in order to frame her; used a venomous snake to kill a man to use his dead body as bait; sadistically manipulated Jennifer's father, Sheriff Morris Walters, into trying to kill his own daughter; and attempted to rob the oil out from Roxxon Corporation to bankrupt it, take over, and rule the world behind the scenes.
- Remove the Evil Genius pothole from Trask's name
- Change "constructed a robot duplicate" to "used a robot duplicate"
I don't know who originally proposed this one, but Trask's a rich gangster, not a genius inventor - the robot's stolen from Tony Stark, then painted green and disguised in a wig. His other hi-tech weapons are either stolen, bought on the black market, or built by hired engineers using stolen plans.
Thanks!
Edited by Mrph1 on Feb 20th 2023 at 6:18:50 PM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
FWIW, Evil Genius is at his character page.
If that's not accurate, does Faux Affably Evil work?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Emperor of Evil!
I might need to recheck but I could've sworn he was the inventor of his own gadgets.
he/him
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Having just re-read the arc:
- The robot's stated to be stolen from Stark International (it's glimpsed in a broken crate in #2, before it's repainted and unleashed in #3)
- The lasers in #4 are bought, presumably on the black market
- The serpent mecha in #5 is built on his orders, but using stolen plans
I've just updated his character page entry as well.
The Emperor of Evil!
The black market stuff is ever once mentioned or implied at all, I'm also rereading the comic myself. Honestly if you think Evil Genius doesn't fit be my guess.
The Draftsman of Doom
W: Yeah, they are the patients.
Feels good, don't it?
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Alright, let's go with this:
- The Savage She-Hulk Vol. 1 issues #1-5: Nicholas "Nick" Trask is a crime boss and the very first foe faced by Jennifer Walters. Responsible for the death of She-Hulk's mother in the past, Trask later murdered his own bodyguard and framed one of his rivals Monkton, later trying to have Jennifer killed. After causing the death of Jennifer's close friend, Trask used a robot duplicate to murder several people in order to frame her; used a venomous snake to kill a man to use his dead body as bait; sadistically manipulated Jennifer's father, Sheriff Morris Walters, into trying to kill his own daughter; and attempted to rob the oil out from Roxxon Corporation to bankrupt it, take over, and rule the world behind the scenes.
Cool.
I'll hold off for a bit before requesting the change.
Edited by ACW on Feb 20th 2023 at 1:47:27 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
he/him
For the laser, it's introduced in dialogue as "happen to have gotten my hands on" (after testing it on Monkton), rather than anything suggesting he developed it.
Edited by Mrph1 on Feb 20th 2023 at 6:52:12 PM
The Emperor of Evil!
Yeah now I'm curious where the whole serpent being built on his orders is at, he said he had it constructed from stolen equipment but never said anything about ordering someone to hold it.
honestly that's a vague line that could mean anything.
Honestly such switch it to Faux Affably Evil or keep it as it is anyway, if doesn't really matter with me.
Edited by Powermaster201 on Feb 20th 2023 at 2:09:42 PM
he/him
It's definitely vague, but we've got no statements that he created/designed any of the tech personally. The robot's stolen, the serpent mecha plans are stolen.
I read "had it constructed" phrasing for the serpent as suggesting he got someone else to do it, rather than building from plans himself. And I read “gotten my hands on" as a suggestion that something was obtained, not designed and built by Trask himself. But YMMV, and villains do lie.
Edit: The hi-tech guns turn up again in a later issue (#6), as evidence in a trial accusing Tony Stark of mob links. Definitely stolen from Stark.
Faux Affably Evil certainly works for me. ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Edited by Mrph1 on Feb 20th 2023 at 7:32:11 PM
Got a character I'm not necessarily vouching for a cut but I think needs another look:
- Extraction: Amir Asif is a nasty drug dealer who rules Dhaka, Bangladesh with an iron fist. As a power play, Amir has Ovi Mahajan, son of rival drug lord Ovi Sr., abducted for ransom while also having Ovi's friend killed in the process. Asif extorts Child Soldiers and throws one off a building merely on suspicion of theft, and almost throws another before ordering another one named Farhad to cut off one of his own fingers when the dead boy turns out to be guilty. Asif is all too willing to kill Ovi and throws the entire city into chaos to recapture him, no matter how many people die in the process.
The original EP is here, where I initially supported him but having watched this one I'm...not really sure how much stock I wanna place in the final sentence (i.e. "throws the entire city into chaos to recapture him, no matter how many people die in the process"). Amir's rapsheet boils down to:
- threatening to kill Ovi Sr.'s teenage son as part of a scheme to take over his drug markets
- using kids as drug runners, killing one of them in the beginning for stealing from him and making another cut off two of his fingers to pay for the other's crimes (which is fucking nasty)
- sending mercenaries after Tyler and Ovi, who chase him throughout the city
All of Amir's nastiness is concentrated in his first scene. And killing one kid and mutilating another is nasty. It's just that he stops being a presence after that one scene and the rest of his villainy boils down to threats and sending minions after the heroes. It's not like his mercenaries are going around shooting up the entire city and killing dozens of innocent people—it's just Hollywood action and chase scenes, for the most part, and while a lot of them take place in the proximity of populated areas, the civilians themselves are rarely endangered and their reactions border on John Wick-esque apathy (like there's one scene where a burning helicopter crashes into a bridge and IIRC nobody's indicated to even be hurt except the bad guys). Amir's orders to his men only extend as far ordering them to kill Tyler and Ovi; he is, in no way shape or form, ordering them to go out of their way to tear up the city and kill other people.
What's kind of compounding this for me is that Amir is a less evil version of the Big Bad from the comic Extraction was based on—Ciudad (who I got up years ago). The character Amir was based on, Lieutenant Mora, does everything Amir does, but I only remember thinking he pushed the line when it's revealed he's a Serial Rapist on top of that. Extraction (perhaps wisely) omits that detail from the character, so what we're left is a mostly-generic Big Bad with one outstanding moment of evil.
Does that moment take him over? I'll let you guys decide, but to be honest, I'm leaning no. I don't think he pushes the envelope enough for a pure action movie.
Edited by Scraggle on Feb 20th 2023 at 4:47:04 AM
I'm supporting a cut
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Eh, I could go either way.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Not the Eye
Gonna go with cut, if we got indication that he at least has killed or cripled kids who work for him before I would be Okay with keep, but as it stands.
I'm saying a weak cut for him
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Seeing as he has minions working for him and rules an area, I will concur that him targeting just 2 children is rather minor. Cut.
Cut Amir
I guess cut? I mean we have upvoted people who have done far less with sadism mind you, but for this type of story I don't think he stands out.
Abstain on Amir since his first scene of cutting a kids fingers is bad, but is Out of Focus throughout rest of the movie. Also looking at the entries in Castle and I notice Scott Dunn's write-up to be a little wonky. This how it reads:
- "Tick, Tick, Tick...Boom!": Scott Dunn is responsible for the deaths of a string of prostitutes, caused the Driven to Suicide suicide of a man who he framed and murdered a businessman to live off his identity. Calling Beckett to mock her each time he commits a murder, Dunn even sneaks a corpse into her apartment. Sneaking a bomb into Beckett's apartment, Dunn is enraged when she manages to survive, murdering an innocent woman to vent his anger. Taking an FBI agent hostage when his identity is revealed, Dunn tries to lure the team into a building he plans to then blow up, killing them all.
Apparently whoever did Dunn's write-up forgot to put these [[ ]] between "Driven" and "suicide" so it reads a little weird. With that I thought to tweak it a little for is to read more fluidly, How this?
- "Tick, Tick, Tick...Boom!": Scott Dunn is responsible for the deaths of a string of prostitutes, caused the suicide of a man who he framed and murdered a businessman to live off his identity. Calling Beckett to mock her each time he commits a murder, Dunn even sneaks a corpse into her apartment. Sneaking a bomb into Beckett's apartment, Dunn is enraged when she manages to survive, murdering an innocent woman to vent his anger. Taking an FBI agent hostage when his identity is revealed, Dunn tries to lure the team into a building he plans to then blow up, killing them all.
Since two of my candidates were brought up, I want to weigh in:
Dunn was maybe rewritten since I first put him up, but no objections to the rewrite though. in fact.
I wanted to abstain on Asif at first because while the city becoming a battleground when he sends out his mercs is admittedly incidental, the sadism and abuse toward the child soldiers Asif commits is framed as a pretty regular thing and hard to ignore. Then I thought of both Ishmael/Sabbac and Ahk-Ton in a superhero movie each doing way; way; way worse in a similar setting and that different heinous standards aside, that's two action movie baddies who pretty much show up Asif in ways he just can't compare—no matter how awful and hateful he is on his own. In short, I gotta agree and say ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to keeping.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Feb 21st 2023 at 7:17:01 AM
Goku Black
Cut Assif.
It sounds like he has a nasty introduction and than nothing else.... Which is weird.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Gonna be doing stuff in this thread in the future regarding Cleanups from now on…when I see something that needs attention brought to it.
Edited by SailorVenus372 on Feb 21st 2023 at 12:53:21 PM
I’m plotting my schemes wherever I go! They’re perfect in every way…
Actually for Hammer's write up I think we should swap the Arms Dealer and Corrupt Corporate Executive potholes, since I think it makes more sense for Arms Dealer to be on weapons manufacturerand CCE on him running a corporation
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her