Should The New Twenties pages exist?

As we never formally resolved this issue (and I am tired of seeing The New '20s being brought up on the Locked Page requests thread), I have decided to start a thread on the matter.

I don't think decades should get their own pages until the decade is over. That being said, I think we can keep Main.The New Twenties as a works index but I wonder if we could just migrate the index to a separate page. I don't think we need UsefulNotes.The New Twenties at all though.

Edited by MacronNotes on Mar 18th 2022 at 7:46:16 AM

I'm not even gonna try the inbound thing this time (especially since it's a four-figure number and only a small group of pages). The page is clearly more trouble than its worth and keeping it updated is impossible.

I definitely want to keep the work indexes, so maybe have something like Works Of The2020s, unlocked for anyone to add pages to. The "Works set in the 2020s" thing is at least somewhat covered by 20 Minutes into the Future if a work was made beforehand. Though I think a page may work in 2025, when people have a feel for what the decade is like but it still hasn't finished, so at least there'd be a foundation for a page that probably won't attract as much controversy as it would at the start.

Edited by Piterpicher on Mar 18th 2022 at 11:17:22 AM

Keep the works pages, cut The New '20s and its Useful Notes page for now. By decade's end (or next decade's beginning), the pages can be revived, but as they stand they are not worth the constant problems they cause and provide little worthwhile insight to era works and their pages that individual Useful Notes pages concerning specific events can provide (such as Black Lives Matter.) I don't see any value in currently keeping the pages (minus the Works pages that can stay for indexing purposes). They can go IMO.

Worth noting that the existing decade pages have problems already. I started a thread about them a while back but it died pretty quickly.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Mar 18th 2022 at 7:43:40 AM

"Works made during the 2020s"

Since That's the usual format for the section in Decades pages?

Also how about a "Works set during the 2020s" index? Since that's the other media-relevant category?

Yeah, keep the work indexes, lose everything else. I've been saying this since the page was made two years ago- way too early, and all anyone wants to do is wonk about current politics.

Also, I posted a link to this on the discussion page.

Edited by WarJay77 on Mar 18th 2022 at 11:15:50 AM

The New '20s itself indexes a lot of works whose media indexes alone would be very short, like the two Theatre entries. I see no issue with it, since it's not trying to document history or world events.

UsefulNotes.The New Twenties can go. When it's remade, maybe someone can also remember to title it The New20s.

Well, the description for Main.The New Twenties is bound to go out of date which is why people have been making edit requests on it. I think we should cut down the description a bit.

Edited by MacronNotes on Mar 18th 2022 at 12:51:54 PM

Right, I should clarify that I want to cut the useful notes page. For a minute I forgot it wasn't just one page.

Deleting the Useful Notes page until the decade is over is fine with me. But I think the other ones can stay.

I think I've said in many places that I find this kind of hot-off-the-press page problematic. I endorse cutting the Useful Notes page.

Cut the useful notes page, keep the index.

Oh right. Yeah, keep the Main and Works pages and cut the UN page.

Agree that it's too early for the Useful Notes page, but keep the Index. We should probably also remove the two paragraphs talking about COVID on the Index, as the way it's written encourages people to want to write updates "hot-off-the-press" as the decade continues (which is the main problem for the Useful Notes).

In general I think that "set in the future of" should be separate from "set in the present of" or "set in the past of", but it hasn't been made into a rule anywhere (we'd have to do a cleanup of existing situations). At any rate, what the decade index should be indexing is "works first published in", not the setting.

I'm in favour of banning UN summaries until the end of the decade. The description of the indexes should be minimal; two to three paragraphs at most, focusing on the media formats, not the controversies.

For comparison, the Useful Notes page for The New '10s was created a couple of years after the main page. I say cutlist the Useful Notes page for now until the socio-political and cultural aspects of the decade has been solidified.

Although I don't know where do I put the Public Domain tidbit once it's cutlisted. Personally that's a significant thing for public domain lovers out there for 1920s film and literature.

Isn't the Public Domain info already on that page? It was updated on the 14th...

Seems like a big edit without an edit reason. Are you sure it isn't unilateral?

Anyway, off-topic, and I have asked that at the ATT and another forum thread.

I guess my Public Domain example at the New '20s Useful Notes page shall be transplanted to the Public Domain page.

I guess it can be transplanted there as it fits. I also agree with cutting down The New '20s page so that real life events aren't referenced in the description. Not sure how that should be done though.

Do we need a crowner to decide if the the Useful Notes page should be cut?

Like I said, I say keep the Main page as an index for works pages, and cutlist the Useful Notes page for now.

Also crowner.

A thing about having a useful notes page run through the decade is that one can (theoretically) update the page as the decade rolls by instead of having to skim over Wikipedia and whatnot in 2029 or later.

That being said, it would seem that the 2020s will be an interesting ride so a good compromise may be to keep it under lock and key while making bare-bones updates/edits as needed.

That's already what's happening, but people are so eager to add every hot-button news issue the moment it happens that they don't, y'know, actually wait to see if it'll have an impact by the end of the decade.

The new 20's are still only just beginning. It's like making a page for the 90's back in '92- sure, some stuff happened, but a lot of big cultural shifts and milestones hadn't happened yet.

Edited by WarJay77 on Apr 11th 2022 at 5:39:16 AM

Imagine being hired to summarize the 30s in April 1932. Your resultant page might have minutiae on the Great Depression, something about the influence of Art Deco, the discovery of Pluto, penicillin becoming widespread, the advent of color films, or Japan invading Manchuria.

You might have some inklings of a potential famine in the Soviet Union, but you have no way of knowing how bad the Holodomor will be. And your summary will not mention the rise of Nazism and the beginning of WWII, the Spanish Civil War, FDR being elected POTUS, or the Hindenberg. From a "media wiki" perspective, absent are the debuts of landmark media Superman (1938), Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs (1937), The Wizard of Oz (1939), Gone with the Wind (1936), and The Hobbit (1937).

...all of which might be considered glaring absences in a modern list of "most important things to come from the 1930s".

Do you see why having the new 20s page is a fool's errand in April 2022?

Edited by Synchronicity on Apr 11th 2022 at 5:20:08 AM

Count me in as someone else who thinks UsefulNotes.The New Twenties should be cut until the end of the decade.

To highlight how premature its creation was, most bullet points are about 2020 alone, which would be akin to UsefulNotes.The New Tens mostly covering the year 2010.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Apr 12th 2022 at 8:14:00 AM

I mean, the page was locked after 2020 started getting interesting, so of course all the bullet points are about 2020. You can't lock a page for two years and then complain that it wasn't updated for two years.

Edited by Fogsgse on Apr 12th 2022 at 7:25:49 AM