Unclear Description (alt titles crowner 17 July 2021): Bubbly Clouds

Crowners can't be deleted (as far as I know), but mods can close them even if they haven't been hooked.

Edit: It looks like it's already been closed.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jul 16th 2021 at 10:10:35 AM

Yes, Willbyr closed it after replying to me.

The new crowner has to be hooked. Once it is, I will post a no-reply ATT query to invite tropers to chime in and vote.

Regarding the name Cloudtop Cruise, it can easily be confused with being on a flying cruise ship through the skies that may occur in World in the Sky.

Edited by Nen_desharu on Jul 16th 2021 at 12:09:30 PM

That was one of the earliest options that had come across my mind, alongside Sky Stage. It's in the new crowner so as to not leave out any of the proposed options.

I'll cast my vote once the crowner is hooked (and for then I'll make public which is my option).

Sorry for the double post, but hasn't anyone hollered a mod to hook the Alt Titles crowner?

Thanks a lot!

I 'm making public that I have voted for Sky Stage. It's the least witty proposal, but it gets the job done. It was a very difficult dilemma between this one and Sky High Zone, because I think both of them are very promising. But ultimately I got an uneasy gut feeling that the best choice, even if by a small margin, would be a name not attached by any Troper Namer.

I'll post a no-reply ATT query to invite other tropers to participate.

How about Sky Level, Cloud Level, or Cloudy Level for the same reason we have Womb Level?

Sky Stage could be misinterpreted as a (theatrical) stage in the sky.

Sky Level would be an interesting name as it not only refers to it being a level (as in playable area in a video game) but also being a level (as in floor or storey) as opposed to ground level (of both playable areas in video games and of buildings).

Edited by Nen_desharu on Jul 17th 2021 at 11:47:29 AM

I don't think there's a problem with the word "stage" in Sky Stage. For one, it has historically been a popular synonymous word with "course" and "level" in video game parlance. And besides, we do have Bonus Stage.

I find unlikely that it'd be confused for a theatrical context anyway, to be honest. If we had a work of fiction (let alone a video game) featuring a theatre in the sky, it would probably be part of a Floating Continent, so it would fit there. And I'd totally be looking forward for such a work, because it would be a pretty cool concept.

However, in the scenario Sky Stage is the most voted title, "Sky Level" can be eventually requested as a redirect in the Locked Pages thread.

Edited by MyFinalEdits on Jul 17th 2021 at 12:18:58 PM

Fair by me (I even voted in favour of Sky Stage).

How do you differ Sky Stage from Levels Take Flight?

Because Levels Take Flight focuses on aerial vehicles like skyships, zeppelins and airplanes; be it that you're infiltrating within one or you're driving it. Bubbly Clouds, whose name is in the process of being changed, focuses on sky levels played on foot, be it by way of Solid Clouds, floating objects, overgrown beanstalks, or something along those lines. Think of how Gangplank Galleon (a naval stage set within a naval ship) differs from Palmtree Panic (a naval stage where you're instead in the coast). But since "Bubbly Clouds" is too narrow a name (it implies that only levels with Solid Clouds qualify, thus excluding levels where you're in the sky while employing other assets that are common in this kind of level), we're voting for a rename.

Edited by MyFinalEdits on Jul 19th 2021 at 10:25:04 AM

I'm a bit concerned ... "Sky Stage" is winning, but it's a very broad and vague name. It really does sound like it'd include any kind of sky-based level, not just ones where you're on foot - like it's a supertrope to Levels Take Flight instead of a sister trope. Could this cause issues in the future?

It's probably too late to suggest any other names, but still... Something like "Sky Walking Stage" or "Cloudwalking Level" might be more descriptive?

Level in the Clouds?

It will help if, like you say, this trope is established as a Super-Trope to Levels Take Flight, rather than Sister Trope. That way, any example pertaining a sky level where you're boarding something (or someone, if we're talking about a sentient vessel) can be added in the latter page. I will tweak the updated description in the sandbox to reflect this correction.

"Sky Walking Stage" would have been a viable option regardless; the problem is that tonight at 9 pm a total of 72 hours will have passed since the crowner's hook, meaning that the most voted option can then be called for approval.

EDIT: "Level In The Clouds" would have been a good option too (your post had come while I was writing this one, Sync).

Edited by MyFinalEdits on Jul 20th 2021 at 2:02:54 PM

Any reason we can't have a third crowner, though?

I mean there's no reason we couldn't technically, but it's usually frowned upon unless we absolutely need to try again. For example, if the crowner vote is suspected of being fudged with sock votes, or if the winning option turns out to actually suck.

If this is a supertrope to Levels Take Flight instead of a sister trope, then Sky Stage wouldn't be as problematic as it would be if it were a sister trope, since subtropes' examples are by definition examples of their supertropes as well.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jul 20th 2021 at 3:37:03 AM

IF this is "Area In The Sky", then "Area Reached By Flight" has gotta be a Sub-Trope.

Edited by Malady on Jul 20th 2021 at 3:33:25 AM

That's why Levels Take Flight works well as a Sub-Trope for this one.

Now, 72 have passed since the crowner's hook. But I have just read that, according to How Crowners Work, weekends cannot count for the minimum of three days, and since this crowner was hooked last Sunday we'll have to wait until tomorrow at 9 pm for a call. By then, and assuming that the current support holds up ("Sky Stage" has a support ratio of 5,33:1 with 16 votes in favor and 3 against), I'd be fine with requesting a call for approval of this name to proceed with the rename, as I think it's a good name.

However, what would happen if there were dissenting opinions in the last few hours prior to the deadline? Would the call be postponed in order to work out the concerns?

I like Level in the Clouds as they include clouds, solid or otherwise.

Skywalking Stage sounds like a Star Wars reference to me, especially given that none of the Skywalkers in the Star Wars universe walk on clouds, not even with the Force.

Cloudwalking Level would somehow exclude examples of Flying on a Cloud.

Sky Stage sounds rather generic.

Edited by Nen_desharu on Jul 20th 2021 at 10:46:55 AM

Had "Level In The Clouds" been brought up at the start, I would have rooted for it. But even if it was added right now (I'm not even sure if adding a new option in the midst of a crowner's current duration is kosher), it would be unlikely for it to gain more support than "Sky Stage".

I admit I'm feeling strongly discouraged. All I had wished at the start was to improve the current description (which was unanimously approved, and I even had a sandbox with it and many of the ZCE entries given explanation and context), and now it grew into a very difficult problem.

EDIT: Also, Nen, allow me to give you a friendly suggestion: It's not wise to always make a Literal-Minded interpretation of trope names. While sometimes it can happen that a name is too vague or ambiguous to convey the trope it's presenting, other times there's no such risk and the principle of Tropes Are Flexible is in effect. If we always had to go by a strictly literal name in every case, then Slippy-Slidey Ice World would only allow levels with Frictionless Ice, even though the trope also covers cases of levels with other setpieces like a health-depleting cold temperature, dense snowy terrain, snowballs used for combat or puzzle-solving, or avalanches. Under the Sea would only allow examples of levels that are beneath the waters of a sea, ignoring levels that are beneath the water of a lake or an ocean. If we were voting in favor of, for example, "Skywalking Stage", we wouldn't be obviously talking about Star Wars characters walking on clouds (and the only sky-located area featured in the whole saga is Cloud City, which is a Floating Continent). Trust me, even in the context of a trope whose name may potentially lead to misuse, people are smart enough to at least make a plausible interpretation of what the trope is about by checking the name. So your concerns on the names you're referring to are, with all due respect, not very reasonable.^note Also, I thought your concern about Sky Stage was that it could be misread as "a theatrical stage in the sky", rather than it just being a "generic" name.

Edited by MyFinalEdits on Jul 20th 2021 at 11:14:01 AM

Fair by me.

Yes, I had two concerns about Sky Stage (too generic and can be misinterpreted as a theatrical stage in the sky).

I can get Literal-Minded at times when discussing trope names.

Good thing context on examples would clear up what it means so it's hard to mistake.

I like Level in the Clouds a lot as a name, it has more heart to it than Sky Stage.

About the super-or-sister-trope thing, what do we do? Right now it's a sister trope(from what I can tell at least), so if the name Sky Stage requires making it a supertrope, would we need another crowner to decide about that?

... I'm a little curious what a Star Wars Skywalker-ing Stage would entail, honestly.