Outdated Administrivia Pages

The logo is likely to count as a watermark in some cases, so I'd be very cautious about that.

I was thinking of examples that were more like network bugs, but caution is just another reason to consider it a rare exception. It'd hardly ever come up in the first place, but it's something I've noticed occasionally for pre-internet books without much online information - the only cover pictures are from secondhand bookstores.

Oh hey my concern over the image edit was valid I guess.

Yeah I can't see any good reason to ever do it, unlike illustrating tropes, we're trying to just be objective when presenting a work page and using edits is deceptive.

Edited by WarJay77 on Apr 26th 2023 at 3:48:50 PM

Maybe overlaying a logo would be okay?

We could say, generally speaking, we should not use edited images or non-official images of works that could trick the viewer somehow, but there are "restoration"-type edge cases that can be discussed like the sticker example.^sidetrack Y'know, like when you're at a museum looking at a painting produced in 1750, you're actually looking at the painting along with inpainting, reinforcements, adhesives, and other stuff done to it later that wasn't part of the original product, but we would still consider the current version an acceptable version to use as a representation of the work.

No On-Page Examples has some overlap with Omnipresent Tropes, but neither wicks to the other.

Is there some connection between the concepts that should be stated on No On-Page Examples, or is it something like pure coincidence?

I may have brought this up before, but at Edit Reasons and Why You Should Use Them

"While edit reasons are indeed optional, they are often a very good idea, for both adding information and removing it."

And at Notifiers:

"such as removing examples or rewriting large sections of the page, it is usually a good idea to provide a clear explanation"

Yet we're strict on lack of edit reasons for removals?

Sandbox.How To Make A Custom Title last edit is from 2021. Diff:

The custom title system was created to add punctuation to article titles, but there are a few limitations. The first limitation is that the system is only intended to add punctuation and correct spacing or formatting (not renaming or fixing the URL capitalization). The second limitation is that the title applies regardless of namespace (all pages with the same name will be affected, including subpages). The third limitation is that once the submission has been approved or denied, the record of who made the submission (and what previous custom title existed) has been lost. In some cases, we may have a consensus on custom titles. These should be in a hidden link at the top of each main article that shares the custom title.

The custom title system is NOT to be used for the following:

• Correcting the spelling of a page (use How to Move a Page instead).
• Adding or removing letters or words from the title of a page (again, use How to Move a Page instead).
• Turning lowercase acronyms into all-uppercase acronyms, such as Csi to CSI (use the Page titles or namespaces that need capitalization fixes thread instead).

The custom title system may be used for the following:

• Adding punctuation (e.g. "Airplane" to "Airplane!")^note When proposing trailing punctuation for a title that affects trope pages, go to this thread for approval first

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• In some cases, you may replace text with symbols (e.g., "ZoidbergAndFriends" to "Zoidberg & Friends"), but this only applies when the symbol is intended to be read as the word and the title uses the symbol exclusively.

How to add a custom title:

First, go to the banner at the top of the page and click "More," then select "WikiWord". This is not available on the mobile version, so you'll have to use a desktop browser. You can access and use this menu from any trope or work page on the wiki and your submission will be based on the URL of the page that you opened it on.

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Hit "Submit", and then the new custom title will show up in a queue for the moderators to approve or decline. Once the custom title has been approved, it will show up on the page. Custom titles are usually reviewed several times a day, so if it takes more than 24 hours for approval, check the custom title thread for discussion. If the title has been denied, you may have received a PM from a moderator explaining why.

If you wish to change an existing custom title, post in this thread.

Edited by Amonimus on May 6th 2023 at 11:34:15 AM

Just signposting for anyone who's not seen it -

There's now a discussion thread about possible changes to the Administrivia.Spoilers Off policy, specifically for Older Than Radio works (which default to Spoilers Off at the moment).

As always, please join in if you've got an interest.

Edited by Mrph1 on May 8th 2023 at 11:06:59 AM

Text-Formatting Rules is mostly fine, but it says that colored spoiler text is broken.

It is, in fact, not. But it has to be formatted like [[color:[[spoiler:text]]]], not [[spoiler:[[color:text]]]].

I think it should be edited to point out that it just has to be done in a specific way.

We'd still call that broken, since it means you can't have a section of partial color inside a spoiler tag.

There's no non-broken way to accomplish this particular task.

But yes, clarifying how it works would be good.

Edited by wingedcatgirl on May 8th 2023 at 9:18:27 AM

Clarified.

Looking at Administrivia.List Of Shows That Need Summary and some of its subpages, they're accumulating a few redlinks for unreleased works.

Some of that's not entirely joined up with the Creating a Work Page for an Upcoming Work rules, as they have no tropeable material yet or don't meet other work page creation requirements.

(And although There Is No Such Thing as Notability, it seems odd to say they're listed because tropers consider them "worthy of an article here" if all we have so far is a title and perhaps a creator's name)

The other related issue is that the redlinks used for ListOfShowsThatNeedSummary aren't always the same page names used on the Sandbox.Future Works list, especially when disambig suffixes are required.

Is it worth adding some guidance on unreleased works to the page? Either discouraging them and sending tropers to the Sandbox.Future Works list to add them there instead, to reduce duplication, or just reminding tropers that they should be in the Sandbox list as well, and should have the same redlinked page name on both?

I'm brought here from an ATT query of mine:

About The Fic May Be Yours, but the Trope Page Is Ours.

I notice that when I search on some ATT queries about The Fic May Be Yours, but the Trope Page Is Ours, it comes off as an Old Shame from the creator's part. I do feel like the page is not addressing on the Old Shame part even though the trope page stays even if the link to the fic is dead, plus the other suggestions found on the Discussions page. If in the case that the fic is no longer around, and they weren't recorded by the Internet Archivem would those pages be moved to Unpublished Works?

Maybe we need a page for Expublished Works.

That'd be really helpful since people would be encouraged to find archives, but I guess Keep Circulating the Tapes as a trope page kinda serves a similar purpose.

Yeah, also in this case from this ATT, some authors just make a TVTropes account just to remove their work, mostly out of Old Shame. This policy of The Fic May Be Yours, but the Trope Page Is Ours is being shown to them, but some authors are really adamant on removing their embarrassing fics, or fics that don't reflect their current views.

The gist about the policy is there's no mention of "If the creator of the work feels Old Shame, and wishes to remove them from this wiki, tough luck. We still keep the trope page."

What's the status of this?

Seems Expublished Works would work.

Edited by alnair20aug93 on May 10th 2023 at 4:03:55 PM

Late but responding to this:

Bad or no edit reasons is something you can get a notifier for and being tougher on unexplained removals make sense as they cause issues especially when there was seemingly nothing wrong with what was removed in the first place. I don't think that necessarily contradicts what Edit Reasons and Why You Should Use Them says and I don't think we should force everyone to use edit reasons (and that's not technically possible right now anyways). I guess we could mention the edit reason notifier on Edit Reasons if needed or change optional to "not strictly required" if that wording is better.

Maybe we could make those changes to Edit Reasons and Why You Should Use Them.

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 11th 2023 at 1:35:13 PM

How to Create a Work's Page says nothing about plaigarism. Since this is a big issue, it seems like something we should mention.

It does mention it, under description

"And whatever you do, do not copy text from the Wikipedia page, another wiki, or any other site. That is Plagiarism and copyright infringement and it is bad."

Edited by JDMA12 on May 16th 2023 at 12:39:55 PM

Oh, I didn't see that. I thought it would have a separate "Don't Do" warning, like, as it's own paragraph.

Any views on the List of Shows That Need Summary suggestion a few posts back?

Hopefully it's not too contentious to signpost tropers to Future Works to double-check unreleased stuff.

As mentioned, I'd really like to remove unreleased work from the "needs a work page" list as well - I think it's largely duplicating the Future Works sandbox for that - but if that's not got a consensus, simply linking to Future Works and keeping work names consistent should also help a lot.

Thanks!

Edited by Mrph1 on May 17th 2023 at 9:35:05 AM

Sure.

You can check here.

PlayingWith/ and Laconic/ are auto-indexed, but YMMV isn't auto-indexed — it isn't indexed at all, or at least not visibly like the others. (Well, OK; it does show auto-indexing if you miscapitalize the namespace, unless the admins fixed that after I mentioned it to them last year, but correctly typing it in all caps won't show anything, unlike the other namespaces, meaning it's probably a bug.)

Edited by GastonRabbit on May 20th 2023 at 12:10:15 PM