Unfortunate Implications Citation Discussion

Unfortunate Implications is a trope that documents audience reactions, we shouldn't be pointing out something if it isn't documented by the citations already, because at that point we're documenting the opinion of a single person, and now the citations are only being used as a vehicle to support a single opinion rather than being used as actual citations are used.

Edited by Edgar81539 on May 23rd 2022 at 1:59:46 PM

Eh right my bad, should have just saved it for Reviews...

In my zeal to clean up YMMV.Metroid Other M of complaining and such, I forgot that Unfortunate Implications needed citations. I added in a few after someone messaged me about it, but I'm wondering if they're up to snuff.

The game aimed to expresses Samus' femininity and clearly define who she is a person, but also wants to explore her being at an emotional low point. This means the first game where we get to learn about Samus's character in-depth is the one where she spends most of the story fraught with uncertainty and is more passive and submissive than she would be normally. Which when combined with the game's theme of motherhood and Adam's behavior unintentionally coming across like that of an abusive boyfriend to many players, has been noted to give off some sexist Stay in the Kitchen vibes.

• First citation is an archived 2010 G4TV review of the game. G4TV was a major gaming outlet at the time, and this was their official review of the title.
• Second citation is an archived 2010 blog post called "Metroid: Other M - The Elephant in the Room". While posted on a coding blog rather than a gaming blog, it ended up being shared around a lot within the Metroid fan community, from Reddit posts to Nintendo fansites. It was also one of two blog posts that were previously linked in the example before I edited it — the other is a dead link, and while I did find an archived version, I personally didn't think it was all that good and opted to scrap it.
• The third citation is a 2016 video essay called "Metroid Other M - A Literary Analysis" from the YouTube channel Games as Literature, which analyzes writing in video games and currently has 45,000 subscribers. The Other M video has over 38,000 views, a few hundred comments, and even references that aforementioned blog post as being one of the defining internet write-ups on the game.

Edited by RacattackForce on May 23rd 2022 at 12:20:12 PM

Got a couple of entries under the anime folder.

• Anime/PokémonTheSeries has a few:
  • The Orange Islands episode Stage Fight! involves Ash and friends boarding a showboat that has both human and Pokémon performers. One of these Pokémon just so happens to be the Jynx (the Pokémon accused of representing Black Face). The appearance of the already controversial Pokémon gains a second layer of problematic when you consider that showboats helped to popularize minstrel shows back in the day.
  • The 64th episode of Sun & Moon involved Ash disguising himself as a Passimian, using a costume that involved black face paint. This unfortunate detail is believed to be the reason the episode was never dubbed.

• Puella Magi Madoka Magica: A number of critical viewers have pointed out, in regards to the explanation that Kyubey contracts teenage girls because they are overly emotional — and thus have the most energy to harvest and exploit — that the show's crux (and the Magical Girl system in general) relies on the woefully tiring Hysterical Woman stereotype. The inevitability of the witch process makes this even worse, as all it does is propel the notion that girls and women are too weak-willed and capricious to handle power. This is especially harrowing once you realize that Magical Girl is supposed to celebrate women with power, not condemn it. And yet, despite the fact that Kyousuke is hospitalized, bedridden, and crippled, not to mention so consumed by grief and despair that (in the PSP games, at least) he attempts suicide, Kyubey never once approaches him with the prospect of becoming a Magical Boy. Because apparently only girls are susceptible enough to break and manipulate. It's only made worse with later episodes heavily implying Sayaka's contract had nothing to do with talent; it was to pressure Madoka into making one. So evidently any random girl can contract, but boys never can. Elaborated upon here, here, and here.

I mean, I can maybe understand the argument but my issue is more how the entry is written. Like the "Woefully tiring" bit and entire Sarcasm Mode potholed sentence. Plus the theoretical scenario about Kyousuke feels a bit forced.

Yeah, I'd cut the "woefully tiring" bit. The whole section about how Kyousuke should have been approached for a contract and the sarcastic sentence that follows also don't really add anything to the example and should probably be cut as well. It's just snark for snark's sake, especially since none of the linked write-ups touch upon such an idea, so it just comes across as a personal take.

I believe we have accumulated enough sources for the Chip and Dale case. If it is still not considered enough here, have an additional bunch of articles:

https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/chip-n-dale-peter-pan-bobby-driscoll-disney-controversy/

https://www.sportskeeda.com/pop-culture/what-happened-bobby-driscoll-chip-dale-rescue-rangers-peter-pan-controversy-explained-amid-online-backlash

https://www.pajiba.com/film_reviews/chip-n-dale-rescue-rangers-bobby-driscoll-controversy-explained.php

Were the entries on YMMV.High Guardian Spice cleared by this thread? Because someone deleted them for being complaining.

Text for posterity.

Edited by Karxrida on May 26th 2022 at 11:36:10 AM

I don't think so. They don't seem complainy to me, and there are several sources on the matter that lend those entries legitimacy.

The issue is that those sources seem to be random commentators? As with using random Tumblr and Twitter links you can probably find at least a handful of loonies for whatever opinion on a show you want, and we have no reference for whether those reviewers' opinions are representative of a large part of the audience or if they're just a group of rantsonas.

There's a few reasons that UI is in TRS right now, and that citation issue is one of them.

Question, is the Peter Pan edit war really worth locking Chip 'n Dale: Rescue Rangers (2022) over? Why not just add a commented-out note not to add the UI example, that way other people can add other examples?

We already have the links and Unfortunate Implications seems to be revampled to not emphasise them anyways. I don't think it should be locked anymore

TRS has not made any decision yet, as we are waiting for a wick check to see what options we have that 1) are feasible or 2) we have not discussed yet.

I don't have a horse in this race. If the page can be unlocked with a commented out note regarding UI, then that's cool. But if people are going to ignore the note and keep adding versions of the example, then it'll have to be locked again (probably until TRS figures out what to do with UI).

Also, there wasn't any consensus on the UI write up for the Chip n' Dale movie.

I think it's best to keep the page locked until the UI situation is resolved. Until then, edit requests can be posted on this thread.

Edited by MacronNotes on Jun 1st 2022 at 2:54:17 PM

The Chip 'n Dale examples was added to UnfortunateImplications.Live Action Film, with the same sources.

Have we reached a consensus on it yet? Or should it be cut for now?

Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Jun 9th 2022 at 3:31:13 AM

TBH, I have not (and probably won't) watched this film and have no stake in this, but I'm really not seeing a reason not to allow the Unfortunate Implications examples. There's been multiple links provided to sources here - I feel that this is pretty clearly not just a few cranks saying this, or at least no more so than the average example.

Agreed. We found enough reviews mentioning this controversy and it's not like it is an issue that we'll find a NYT article on so that's enough.

A question about this example on YMMV.Torchwood Children Of Earth:

• Unfortunate Implications: The claims that a Christian woman committed suicide after realising aliens existed and left a note saying "Science has won." Are we going to keep going down that route?

So, two things: 1. The example is rather low context. 2. I read the relevant part of the article linked, and I'm not sure if it actually indicates the author thought this was a case of Unfortunate Implications. Here's the text:

It reads to me more as poking at logical issues, not discussing any Unfortunate Implications. Thoughts?

I feel like that article fails to account for the fact that some people genuinely would lose their shit if this sort of thing happened. Not everyone believes in an old Earth or the fossil record, so the argument hinges on a reality that isn't real.

So apparently, the new What If? Marvel comic where Miles Morales replaces Thor is being ridiculed for relying so heavily on racial stereotypes that it ends up coming across as unironic Blaxploitation. For example, the very first page shows that Asgard is covered in graffiti and sneakers hanging from power lines, while the narration is delivered in the form of rap lyrics.

An article about the backlash.

As I pointed out in the Diversity thread, this probably would've gone over much better had it been Luke Cage in Thor's shoes, and not Miles Morales, who is a huge geek who pointedly does not talk like that.

Sounds like a valid entry. I mean, Screen Rant is... Screen Rant, but the article exists as proof that there is backlash beyond a niche group of people.

YMMV.Papers Please has this UI entry:

* Unfortunate Implications: The body scan mechanic which requires you to check for discrepancies between a person's stated gender and biological sex completely fails to account for Transgender and gender non-conforming people and eerily mirrors proposed genital inspection laws. It therefore accidentally winds up implying that Trans people are not only not the gender they say they are, but that invasive violations of their privacy is grounds for imprisonment. True, the game is set in an oppressive dictatorship in The '80s, but still.

The article cited has nothing to do with the game (it's just an apparently comparable real world policy). Given the setting, it's probably a Deliberate Values Dissonance rather than UI anyway.

Cut?

Seems like Deliberate Values Dissonance. I agree that it can be cut.

Is Kyle Kallgren a valid citation? He's the only person cited for this entry under YMMV.Spring Breakers, which lists a couple issues. Note that the link given no longer leads to that video.

• Unfortunate Implications: The film's climax involves two white girls (well, Hudgens is mixed with Native American and Filipino) donning masks and shooting down a bunch of black people... in Florida... and the film began production shortly after Trayvon Martin was killed. In fact, of all the gangsters in the film, the one who the protagonists trust is white. Addressed by Kyle Kallgren of Brows Held High, who proceeds to criticize this as well as the rampant Male Gaze in his review exploits.