During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
From what I've seen you say about Mr. Negative, I can see him making it, despite the atrocity of his crimes, since you did mention him seeing stopping Norman as being ultimately the right thing to do and that he's just really brutal about it: very open to an EP.
You can EP Negative if you want, Warthog. What made me not do him was that I felt he was ultimately too unstable to count. Not as much as Ock, but enough to make me hesitant.
To be frank, I think a part of me expected someone else to do him at some point. As for me snagging the MB reservation, I apologise. Incidentally I decided to do it right after the Black Cat sidequest in the main game. I got really excited after she tricked Spidey. I then ended up reserving the DLC. I did make my intentions clear in the thread, but I understand not everyone can read everything. Thank you for your compliments, though.
Sorry if you wasted your time with an EP for Walter. But I do hope the Martin Li "Mr Negative" EP goes well.
Oh, and I agree with Kingpin but I will say in his favour he remains a threat even after being locked up. His forces continue to be a thorn in the city and he continues to remain calm about the whole thing on the view occasions he talks to Spidey over the phone, despite a brief outburst when he's taken in (and that's mostly because Spidey was swinging away and he needed to shout for Web Head to hear him).
Edited by PolarPhantom on Nov 7th 2018 at 10:26:00 AM
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Polar Phantom: You got nothing to apologize for, my dude. I'm basically not active here at all, so it's my own fault for not being proactive. I enjoy reading your effortposts since they're so full of personality so it's not a real loss in my book.
I will say though that it seems I totally misread Kingpin and Negative (my fault again: I played through the game once and am just kinda waiting for the rest of the DLC to drop). On Kingpin's end, I kinda saw him still being an active threat as less "Fisk is still dangerous behind bars" and more of "Spidey has to clean up his mess." Doesn't really excuse me for not taking Kingpin still being a calm schemer after being arrested into account though.
And with Mr. Negative, I didn't think about his moral agency and struggles with controlling "The Demon" as mitigating where this trope was concerned. Honestly I should have, but I think I overlooked it because of the emphasis on Magnificent Bastard being "scheming, charismatic mastermind" which Mr. Negative is. Looking back I honestly may not effortpost him after all if moral agency is too high a bar for him to clear.
Goku Black
Uh comprosmied Moral agency is fine here. Its only an issue if it causes you to make stupid decisions Which since I've watched a Lets Play (Dont own a Ps 4) of the game, Negative doesn't do
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
I'd be willing to hear the arguments myself. Mr. Negative is harder for me as he's so obviously broken and more of a Tragic Villain, but I'd be willing to hear it out. There's also the issue with how he becomes Ock's dragon later.
The Unknown Unknown
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Mackey.
Him being Ock's Dragon isn't really dwelt upon that much. It's more a matter of working with mutual benefit. Like, Negative is still doing what he normally does and they barely share screentime. It's just that when finally beaten, Ock pulls a You Have Failed Me... and that's after Spidey's won the boss fight.
By all means, EP Negative. It would be fun at the least.
Edited by PolarPhantom on Nov 7th 2018 at 6:36:36 PM
Lord of Hell
Anyway, here’s the write-up for Ripley.
- Critical Role: Anna Ripley served as a scientist for the Briarwoods, creating an acidic compound to distil Whitestone ore into residuum. When Percy de Rolo attempted to kill her, she took interest in his gun, a weapon never seen until Percy made it, and recreated one of her own. After being imprisoned for attempting to leave the Briarwoods, Ripley manages to convince Vox Machina to free her in exchange for her assisting them, successfully escaping the party the first chance she gets. Vox Machina later finds out that Ripley was using the gun they confiscated from her to spy on them, hiring a crew and obtaining two of the Vestiges of Divergence from under Vox Machina’s nose. She also manipulates Kynan into working for her by taking advantage of his resentment for Vox Machina when they rejected him. When Vox Machina chases after Ripley, she lures them into an explosive trap, badly injuring the majority of the party, before ambushing the party, resulting in her successfully killing Percy. Brilliant and manipulative, Ripley proved to be one of Vox Machina’s most dangerous enemies.
Alright, since I have Polar's blessing and people think there's room for debate, I'll put Mr. Negative onmy to—do list. I can't promise that I'll get to him soon since my home life is very busy at the moment (helping care for an injured family friend) but I hope to resolve the matter regarding him by December at the latest. Gonna be looking forward to that one.
Take all the time you need pal, no rush and I hope your family member gets better 
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
btw did you already do the Forbidden Memories one and I just missed it?
Edited by 43110 on Nov 7th 2018 at 7:24:18 AM
Take it easy, FW. I've got AA covered here.
I put a spoiler over Vortex as the work is only a year old.
- Dai Gyakuten Saiban duology has Hart Vortex, a Faux Affably Evil mastermind who is also the Chief Justice of England. Despite being the main villain of the duology, his motives aren't revealed until the second game, as before that he's a seemingly good Reasonable Authority Figure. Vortex's main goal is to purge England of crime. In order to do this, he creates a serial killer known as "The Professor" killing his way to the top, and covers it all up by blaming Genshin Asougi, Kazuma's father. Warning Genshin he will be unable to see his family again, Genshin accepts a guilty verdict, unwittingly receiving the death penalty. He aimed to kill his two accomplices to prevent them from talking. He sent Ann Sasha (known to Japan as Jezail Brett) to kill the fake John A. Watson, while he raised Kazuma; who was thought to be dead, into a prosecutor and ordered him to kill Tobias Gregson, the detective. When that failed, his Japanese accomplice Seishirou Jigoku killed Gregson instead. In spite of being behind a lot of the game, and having lots of blood on his hands, Hart Vortex never deviates from his well-intentioned goal of a crime-free England. After he is defeated by Ryunnosuke Naruhodo and Sherlock Holmes, Vortex accepts defeat gracefully and is arrested and demoted from his position. In the end despite willing to do anything to get there, Vortex really did want what was best for England.[[/spoiler
Edited by Klavice on Nov 7th 2018 at 7:35:50 AM
Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.No I did not do Seto. Will do him shortly.
(No need for deletion now.)
Edited by Klavice on Nov 7th 2018 at 7:23:18 AM
Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.
The Arch-Douchebag
Can a character become a Magnificent Bastard over the course of the story, or is it something one has to be all the way throughout the plot? I'm not asking for a specific example, I just want to undestand athe trope better.
Edited by Tharkun140 on Nov 8th 2018 at 10:24:37 AM
Apathy is Death. Worse than Death, because at least a rotting corpse feeds beasts and insects.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Gradually becoming an MB is totally acceptable. We got DCAU Lex Luthor, if you'd like an example.
Edited by DocSharp on Nov 8th 2018 at 1:48:43 AM
What Doc said.
It’s time to discuss Netflixvania.
First up, Dracula. At first, he seems like he might count. He has the presence and the ability to shut up his squabbling generals… but as the series goes on it becomes clearer and clearer that Dracula is a broken man. His goal? Wipe out humanity and starve the vampires, a plan he doesn’t fully explain to anyone save Isaac. He is often lethargic and disinterested, just wanting his genocide done with so he can die. He’s still sympathetic and cool when he actually does stuff, but the show seems to go the way of deconstructing Drac, his goals and how his subordinates see him.
Carmilla is a decent candidate in hindsight – again, at first. She is introduced openly questioning Dracula, yet when he calls her for a private talk she’s able to pass it off as loyalty, giving Drac an opportunity to clear up questions the Vampires have. She schemes and manipulates, turning Hector against Drac and coming up with a clever plan to dump Drac’s armies into a river of holy water. Indeed, she would have likely won had not Sypha Belnades worked her magic. But behind Carmilla’s mask of charm she’s nothing but a vile beast. Once Hector has implicated himself too much she starts abusing him, calling him her pet and her last scene has her beating the poor guy into submission all with a sadistic grin. She’ll be back and myself and Scraggle think she may eventually be a CM, but an MB she is not. EDIT: Forgot to mention she's the only one who recognises the Belmonts might be a threat and so sneakily has Hector send a small but deadly force to the ruins of the Belmont estate when it becomes clear no one else agrees.
Hector – of all the things I expected to be adapted, I never thought Curse of Darkness would be – is a little more evil than his game self. It’s an unusual sort of Adaptational Villainy, but he’s ultimately a pawn of Carmilla and not worth talking about.
Godbrand is a Viking thug who gets killed easily.
…well, that’s it… for now. Come back later when there’s someone I know Scraggle and Lighty are real looking forward to.
Edited by PolarPhantom on Nov 9th 2018 at 10:40:02 AM
So, I have a candidate from Netflixvania today:
Isaac, adapted from the character of the same name in ‘’Curse of Darkness’’ and a single glance will tell you that he is completely identical to his game counterpart.
Who is he? What has he done?
Isaac was once the enslaved servant of a knight – or at least he has that aesthetic - that saved his life. Wanting to learn from his master’s books to help the man, Isaac was punished horribly with whipping from a nasty spiked belt. Claiming he did it because he loved his master, the knight relents – then starts whipping him more, shouting that he should never mention love again.
Isaac finally snaps, catching the belt on his arm and killing his master by ye olde faithful thumbs in eyes trick.
As the years went on, Isaac became a Devil Forgemaster, able to breathe new life into death, usually as monsters. He meets Dracula when the big Vamp himself saved Isaac from being murdered by magicians that wanted to use body parts for ingredients. A year later, Dracula returns, asking Isaac for help in wiping out humanity for killing his wife. Isaac agrees and it’s clear they are very close friends.
And so Isaac, along with fellow DF Hector, are put in charge of Drac’s armies, much to the chagrin of Vampires that see humans as mere prey.
Isaac believes humanity is corrupt, to the point where he uses that belt to self-flagellate. He further believes that with humanity’s extinction love will finally exist in the world.
After Carmilla converts Godbrand then Hector to her cause of overthrowing Drac, Godbrand tries to convince Isaac to help.
“Do you intend to betray Lord Dracula?”
“Only if the old man is difficult.”
Then Isaac kills Godbrand. He is ruthlessly efficient expending little effort, even taking his nails in the back but tanking it because of the severe discipline of his self-torture.
Isaac takes Godbrand’s remains and does a little… ceremony as the sun comes up. He shows respect to the mad Viking, letting his dust blow in the wind.
No one ever even finds out Godbrand is dead, with Isaac even telling Dracula that if anyone wanted to betray him, Isaac would remove them so that even Drac would never know. Fortunately for Carmilla, Godbrand wasn’t stupid enough to tell Isaac that Carmy was the ring leader.
Hector, after a lengthy discussion, manages to convince Isaac to follow Carmilla’s stratagem of attacking an important boat town to keep the people of Wallachia from escaping the country. Isaac ultimately agrees, agreeing that a united court is important. Plus, keeping Carmy happy means that the other vamps will follow suit.
Of course, this was all a trap. Isaac realises this when Carmy’s troops start attacking – though it’s Drac that ultimately recognises the armour. Isaac fights valiantly even up to when the whole castle is summoned by Sypha Belnades. When Isaac sees Alucard, he recognises him and, running to Drac, proclaims he would give his life for Dracula, his knowledge and what he can do for the world.
Moved beyond belief, Dracula takes Isaac, the only person left he can call friend, and throws him through a magic mirror to a desert. Isaac is left all alone as Dracula faces his son and companions.
In the final episode, Isaac is seen drinking at an oasis. He’s approached by some A-holes – one of whom sounds like he could either be Ignis or Liquid Snake - that decide they want to have the water for themselves. Also they wanna sell him or eat him. Isaac warns them not to be A-holes but they keep being A-holes so he kills them.
That night we see him eating – and I honestly thought he was eating them before I saw the dead horse – and the thought occurs to him he can take those A-holes and make them his A-holes. He uses his DF skills and makes them his monstrous minions, deciding to find more minions to continue his war on humanity.
Is he magnificent?
Easily Drac’s most competent servant. He is extremely efficient and ruthless. Scraggle said to me over PM that he makes Dracula seem “almost unstoppable” despite Drac himself not counting at all. He always has class and always feels like he has control over his situation – being thrown through magic mirrors notwithstanding. The man kills a centuries old Vampire like he was nothing and is ‘’never’’ found out. While he falls for Carmilla’s trap, that is more a testament to Carmilla’s intelligence and Hector’s sincerity than a failing on Isaac’s part – he had good reasons for thinking the stratagem was a good idea.
Furthermore, I do wonder if the Vampire Hunting Crew could take on both Drac and Isaac.
Not bad for a human in a world of monsters.
Any competition?
Only Carmilla, whom is admittedly impressive. However, she is not nearly charming enough to count and Isaac mostly stands out in his own way on his own legs.
While Carmilla was right in thinking the Belmonts were a threat, if it weren’t for the civil war, I do wonder if the heroic trio could have succeeded, so I can’t fault Isaac too much for disagreeing. And there were other issues to attend to as well, like keeping the court from imploding or figuring out where best to attack.
A bastard?
Yes, he wants to kill all of humanity. He is presented as the darker shade of grey to Hector by virtue of Hector wanting to be humane and “cull” humanity whereas Isaac is happy to slaughter them all without much regard for being nice about it.
Too much of one?
Nah, Isaac has a solid Freudian Excuse, considers Dracula his only friend, believes the world would be better off without people and is never overly sadistic, even warning those A-holes not to mess with him.
Conclusion
I was happy to wait on him since he’s clearly coming back, but Scraggle convinced me to EP him.
As it is? After thinking on him, I’m leaning keep, but if rejected, I’m not too sad. He’s coming back and I’m sure I’ll get him added sooner or later.
Unlike Carmilla in the CM thread, there’s enough of Isaac for me to be OK with adding him. Also, I’m pretty sure he’s meant to be this continuity’s version of Death.
-
Well, that’s it from Netflixvania for now. I’m sure we’ll be back at some point and I’ll talk about it again. Personally, I think Drac will come back – and Isaac will probably have a hand in that – so maybe big bat dude will count eventually.
Any other thoughts? By all means, if I overlooked something on Isaac, please tell. I know Scraggle’s been looking forward to this one.
Goku Black
Isaac
Uh its Castlevania man. Dracula having strong Joker Immunity is pretty much a guarantee.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Isaac
Usually I'm a "wait and see" kinda guy but given the space between the last two seasons, I'm fine with Isaac going up now and we can do our thing with the entry as time goes on.
Edit: I swear to God, Dracula better not be for real dead or I will be... unhappy.
Edited by 43110 on Nov 9th 2018 at 6:29:44 AM
One word to Isaac: yes. He qualifies now and I have full confidence he'll qualify further down the road.
And I don't know... killing Dracula here? Maybe I'd be upset, but they executed it so damn well I think it's forgivable.
Edited by Scraggle on Nov 9th 2018 at 4:38:57 AM
This Dracula sounds like he almost went through Wimpification. He's got the genocide down but the fact he's more mellow than his subordinates and Carmilla when he was the driving force behind the Belmonts trying to save their world... Yeah. Not as bad as Simon in Captain N thank god, but it's kinda disappointing Drac for once doesn't count as either a CM or MB.
Is Alucard in it by any chance?
I think I'll do a Seto writeup shortly.
Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.
Well damn, actually came down here to effort post him myself, and it turns out the one guy I planned on proposing got snagged.
Yes to Mackey/Walter Hardy/OG Black Cat though (And good job on the effortpost, Polar Phantom!). And unless something goes super awry with her character I fully expect Felicia to count once her time comes.
G-Editor: Kingpin doesn't really do... well, ANYTHING to really warrant MB status since he's Starter Villain who gets his ass kicked in the cold open and is dragged away hollering and screaming at Spidey. That being said this IS the end of his villainous tenure and if we got a look at him from say, an Arkham Origins-esque prequel game he could very well do enough to count and better establish himself as a villain.
Doc Ock comes close, but ends up being too much of an asshole and totally flips his shit when insulted by Osborn, and thus doesn't count. Mr. Negative... honestly, I don't quite see what bars him from counting unless his suicide bombings put him too close to "Bastard" territory. If Polar Phantom is okay with that, I might honestly give Mr. Negative a shot after a New Game Plus playthrough to refresh my memory.
Edited by FriedWarthog on Nov 6th 2018 at 5:28:33 AM