During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
- Why do a cleanup?: This trope definitely exists and has a well documented history of use. That being said, it frequently gets misused to a character who meets one of the components, namely that they are smart, charming while not necessarily even being a villain, or create good plans. While these are components, there is also a certain personality required, not to mention that all of the above are required to be present for a character to be a true Magnificent Bastard. As the trope attracts interest, it unfortunately brings in a lot of misuse and I thought the best way to rectify this would be a Perpetual Cleanup Thread, as is being done and has seen success with Complete Monster.
- What makes a Magnificent Bastard: Below is a list of the individual components to make this character. Note that they must all be present, not just some, which has lead to frequent misuse:
- Must be intelligent: Goes without saying, to be a Magnificent Bastard, the character has to be smart in the first place and use their brain to work towards whatever their end goal may be;
- Must be a Bastard: While going overboard in how vile the character is can be detrimental, a key aspect is the Bastard part of the trope, whether the character is an out-and-out antagonist in the work, some manner of Villain Protagonist, or something in between, they at least have some unscrupulous qualities to qualify for this trope;
- Must not be too detestable: Again, there is a ceiling on how bad the character can be before they just become too nefarious, blocking out the Magnificent part of the trope. A genocidal racist or child-raping Sadist aren't going to make the cut;
- Think on their feet: In addition to being a Chessmaster, a Magnificent Bastard, if the character deals with situations in which their initial plan is ruined, has to be able to pull a Xanatos Speed Chess and at least come up with a competent strategy to make up for lost time, otherwise they fail for being unable to think in tough spots;
- Have charm: Even if they don't necessarily make every character they meet fall in love with them and can even be detested by others, the audience has to find an amicable social relation to the character, or they are failing to make the impact required for this trope.
- What to do if a character is listed on a page but has not been approved?: They need to be removed, all candidates need to come through the cleanup thread first. The character could well count but they need to be analyzed properly and voted on first.
- Do we list Playing With this trope?: No; as a YMMV trope, this cannot be Played With, so we only want examples that are Played Straight.
- What do I do if I want a character to be listed as a Magnificent Bastard?: The greatest success Complete Monster saw for its cleanup effort was from the invention of the effort post format, so, borrowing from that, a troper wishing to propose a Magnificent Bastard will create such a post in the following format:
- Begin by describing The work, this will help establish the setting the character is in and for the reader to understand what kind of a scenario they are in;
- Summarize The character's actions, this will provide a listing for readers to understand what they do and how it applies to this trope because charm and lack of smugness are so crucial, this is a good time to be incorporating exactly the flavor of how they operate to explain this;
- List circumstances in which the character must Think on their feet, these are times where a wrench might be thrown in their initial plan and they have to adapt on the spot or even come up with a new scheme all together, this is also a good time to explain how the villain reacts to defeat when they have to face it, a true Magnificent Bastard won't break down into tears at the thought of death, they should have known such a possibility could occur and be able to handle it with more dignity;
- The competition, similar to the Heinous Standard dealt with for a Complete Monster, this section is to deal with how successful the character is in carrying out their plans compared to other characters. While, as a villain, they probably are going to lose in the end, it is good to explain how other characters handle the same situation. There is no exceptionalism case to be made for this trope but explaining the variety helps the reader have a better understanding of the proposal.
- How do you know when the character's arc is done so they can be proposed? When their tenure as a villain or antagonist finishes. This could happen in a single Story Arc in an entire work, a single work of a franchise, or the whole series in general. We'll show lenience to Long-Runners with constantly recurring candidates or series with outstanding continuities (ex. comic books), and it's entirely possible to count in a work or two but not in general for a reason like Depending on the Writer.
- What about candidates evil because of external sources? Those Made of Evil can qualify if they show enough individuality and tactical acumen — in other words, they have the personality to fulfill the magnificence requirement. Conversely, those brainwashed, especially if they're a better person without it, may fail the individuality aspect and cannot count.
- What if they are under orders from a higher-up? Depends. If the boss created the plans down to the letter and the candidate is just following them, sounds like we should discuss the boss instead. However, if the candidate takes creative liberties with the orders, adds their own charm and flair to them, fills in holes in the orders, and/or actively deals with obstacles their boss did not talk about, the candidate shows enough individual thinking to qualify.
- What about Character Development? An MB is something a character can develop into... a nice person who plots well might become more morally gray as the work goes on and hits the "Bastard" criteria, thus making them viable. Likewise, a Smug Snake might shed their ego, become more understanding of the threat others pose and gain the personality or "Magnificent" criteria, likewise making them viable. Conversely, a character who looks like this trope might suffer from a Sanity Slippage or just get outed as not being as smart as they thought they were and become incompatible with MB.
- Can an MB be a good guy? Not in the conventional sense... it is required they have at least some dubious traits lest they fail the "Bastard" criteria. That being said, a character who pulls a Heel–Face Turn or eventually stops taking villainous actions is still fair game: as there was a point in time where they were both "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and they've merely adapted as time goes on. Now... if such a character begins showing other issues (i.e.: becomes prone to freak outs or starts getting outwitted) then they're compromising their Magnificence and will probably be deemed a cut. What's important is stylishly operating while at least for some time being willing to take at best underhanded methods to see a job done. A Heel–Face Turn in itself isn't a disqualifier but they do have to have been "Magnificent" and a "Bastard" at the same time and afterwards can't start slipping on the former front.
- What about characters whose stories can take different routes?: When proposing a character in a form of media that has them in multiple story routes. Said character must be consistent with their characteristics in all routes. (ex.: Can't have an example who shows promise on one route yet fails in another.) The only exception is if a later installment of the series confirms the character's actions which made them worth proposing are the canon route.
- Is there a timeframe rule like with Complete Monster?: Yes, please wait two weeks until after the work has concluded before proposing a character (again, usually using the North American air date). As is the case with CM, we want to give a reasonable time frame so that everyone interested in seeing the work has done so and can participate in the discussion without having anything spoiled.
- What about groups like with Complete Monster?: This is a point of divergence between the two tropes. While CM does not allow for a single entry encompassing more than three characters lest their heinousness for crimes becomes too watered down, with MB as long as they are treated as one "unit" it is acceptable to lump all characters provided they share acts of charm and intelligence.
- Can I propose my own work's character as a Magnificent Bastard?: No, this is a YMMV subject and the creator of a content is way too biased to be able to evaluate the criteria we're looking for without a second opinion taking over. That being said, you are more than welcome to encourage someone to consume your creation and if they feel a character counts, are more than welcome to suggest them.
- My example/edit has been approved, but the example subpage is locked! How do I get it added?: The moderators do not add examples to locked example subpages in the MagnificentBastard/ namespace directly. Rather, you need to do the edit to a sandbox page that follows the format Sandbox.MagnificentBastard<Name of the example subpage> (e.g for MagnificentBastard.Fullmetal Alchemist it's Sandbox.Magnificent Bastard Fullmetal Alchemist) and on a Friday, ask in the locked pages edit requests thread for the content to be swapped in.
Thread rules
When voting a troper must specify the effort post they're voting on and cannot merely vote on "Everything I missed" as in the past it has indicated the poster didn't read the effort post and is guessing instead of analyzing.
Resolved items
In general, a character listed on this trope is considered "settled". This means they should not be challenged unless information used to list them was incorrect or information was missed in the initial discussion.
However, when re-litigating a candidate, the same rules apply for when they were originally proposed. If they do not have five or more upvotes than downvotes for approval upon a re-litigation, including votes from the initial discussion if they do not change, then they are a cut.
This especially applies to the characters listed below, who have been discussed excessively and repeated attempts to get them listed/cut may result in punitive action for bogging down the thread.
Definitely an MB
- Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers: Any sadism Darkrai displays is limited in effect thanks to the game's nature and any cowardice which can be inferred about him is Alternative Character Interpretation about his tactical retreats.
- Avatar: The Last Airbender: Azula's Villainous Breakdown is undone in the sequel comic Smoke & Shadow where she regains her composure and ends up stable and in control enough to count.
Definitely not an MB
- South Park: The show's frequent use of vulgar comedy and mean-spirited humor leaves any potential candidates devoid of the dignity or charm to qualify.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:15:22 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Senator Mendoza
Mendoza.
Goku Black
Mendoza
Yeah for Mendoza.
Showtime!
to Mendoza
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
for Juan Carlos Mendoza and Karl Marsten.
Also, 'bout a third of the way through rewatching Spooks—just finished up with Series 3. Seems like there's quite a few candidates I'm gonna be talkin' about.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
There appears to be a page for Bane from The Dark Knight Rises. Suggest linking with his MB entry.
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
- The Mysterious Cities of Gold: Juan Carlos Mendoza is the eventual guardian of young hero Esteban, having saved him as a baby from the seas. Realizing Esteban's connection to the Cities of Gold, Mendoza makes himself a mentor figure to the boy and his companions, manipulating them to lead him to the gold and make himself rich. Growing to care for the kids, Mendoza also constantly outwits the forces of the Conquistadors and even the Olmecs, at one point flooding a village to save it from the evil Malinche's poisoning. Seemingly betraying the heroes to join the Conquistadors at the end, Mendoza in fact goes behind their backs to deliver Spanish weapons to the Inca and give them a fighting chance.
Thank you k4 I’ll get that later and cool Tyk, looking forward to what you bring us when you’re through.
Goku Black
Anymore votes or queries on karl Marsten
to Mendoza and Marsten
Okay after looking him over here’s my second candidate from Mad Men, Bob Benson.
Who Is He? What Has He Done?
Bob Benson is an accountant who was recently hired in Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce though none can ever recall why they hired him in the first place. Of course it would be revealed that Bob is actually a conman whose name isn’t really “Bob Benson” uses his charisma to please people to manipulate them into hiring him and not investigate his criminal past.
Of course Bob’s charm wins over everyone in SCDP and he gets along with the people there especially with Joan Harris whom Bob learns that’s she’s suffering pain due to ovarian cyst and lies to a nurse for Joan that she has ingested poison allowing Joan to immediately receive treatment for her abdominal pain, leading to a grateful Joan to prevent Bob’s layoff when SCDP merges with CGC.
Bob would then intervene in an argument between Micheal Ginsberg and Jim Cutler, and would take Cutler’s side in the argument getting on Cutler’s good side where Cutler would allow Bob to handle the Manischewitz account offer him a position where Bob would work with Pete Campbell in the Chevy business.
Bob tries to get on Pete’s good side by helping Pete get a nurse for his ailing mother and the two initially get along until Bob reveals himself to be gay and may have romantic feelings for Pete, to which Pete would become disgusted by Bob (homosexual isn’t really looked upon during the 50s) and would try to get Bob another job to get rid of him.
However Pete would soon learn that Bob is a conman and threatens to reveal Bob’s secret unless he leaves only for Bob counter by threatening to tell Manolo Colon, the nurse Bob recommended Pete to hire for his, about Pete’s threats which Manolo would call Pete and threaten the life of his mother unless Pete treats Bob better, forcing Pete to call a truce with Bob and let Bob to continue working with him, albeit giving Bob some ground rules which Bob would accept.
However Pete learn that his mother eloped with Manolo during their cruise before she fell overboard becoming lost at sea and presumed dead. Pete assumes that Manolo killed his mother for her inheritance and accuses Bob of being an accomplice to his mother’s murder.
Shock that Pete’s mother died and disgusted that Pete would really think that Bob would actually take part in his mother’s death, Pete decides manipulate Pete into humiliating himself in front of Chevy by telling them that Pete would like to drive their car, knowing that Pete doesn’t actually know how to drive. Of course not want to make of fool out of himself, Pete tries to drive the car only to crash it in their head quarter thus, Bob would secure his position with Chevy while getting Pete removed.
Appearing once more in Season 7, The executives at Chevy says to Bob that Buick would hire him at Detroit and would make him an executive for General Motor should Bob get married. This leads to Bob to propose to Joan, the woman that he was closest to, only for Joan to turn him down knowing that he’s gay and tells Bob that they both need to be with people they love, instead of spending their lives in "an arrangement”. Bob decides to accept Joan’s decision and would leave to Detroit anyway.
Is He Intelligent? Is He Charismatic?
As a professional conman, Bob is very cunning and charismatic using both of these attributes to manipulate people to hire him and not look into his criminal past. This causes many people to like Bob including everyone at Chevy and the emotionless Jerkass Jim Cutler who admits to liking Bob, while using his likability to get people to side with him over Pete, though of course Bob would trick Pete into doing something dumb, which I believe just adds to Bob’s devious charm.
What's The Competition Like?
Bob is one of the most cunning, charismatic, and likably devious characters in the series with only Bert Cooper matching Bob here. In fact, Bob is essentially like Don Draper being a conman who uses a different name to get ahead in life while while charming and manipulative people into liking them, but Bob lacks Don Draper’s self-destructing tendencies while amping up the charming and manipulative aspects found in Don. So yeah Bob clears the competition here.
Is He a Bastard? Is He Too Much of a Bastard
Bob is conman who has lied, cheated, and manipulated people into doing what he wants, most of his acts of kindness towards people is self-serving to get ahead in life by making people like him, is willing to threaten Pete Campbell when Pete tries to do so, and would manipulate Pete to humiliate himself in front of Chevy which gets Pete kicked out of the Chevy account, so yeah I’d say Bob’s enough of a bastard to count.
That said Bob has qualities that prevents Bob from being too much of a bastard. First off, Bob is never shown to be sexist, racist, nor homophobic towards people, and given that Bob himself is a homosexual he’s actually opposed to any forms of bigotry.
Secondly Bob actually draws the line at killing as shown when actually being shocked that Pete’s mother died and his reasons to get even with Pete is out of complete disgusted for Pete when Pete accuse Bob of being an accomplice to his mom’s death, and genuinely liked Pete prior to that moment, possibly hinting at having feelings for Pete.
Finally Bob has shown that he genuinely cares for Joan, even if he his reasons to marry Joan is to secure a GM position at General Motors, having lied to a nurse for Joan’s benefit and respectfully accepts Joan’s decision to decline Bob’s marriage proposal before he leaves for Detroit.
Final Verdict?
I will leave it to you guys.
Edited by G-Editor on Nov 7th 2020 at 2:25:10 AM
Showtime!
to Bob
Goku Black
I'm suspicious about that one G. Looking at his character page it says he's a brownnoser and a very blatant one at that, he might be a cunning Manipulative Bastard, but I'm not sure he has the charm for this.
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
having seen Mad Men, I can assure you that Bob has the charm for this. Sure he is willing suck up to his superiors to get ahead, its not like he's desperate to yearn for their approval, and he actually gets people to like Bob
Hmm, that should have been in the EP though, anyway given the YMMV page and the EP, I'm willing to give a .
Gotta love Jaws!
Mendoza, Marsten and Benson.
Edited by Amanofmanyinterests on Nov 7th 2020 at 6:25:20 AM
"For a second there, I mistook ya for a threat... but you're just a dirty little man!"
Bert, Marsten, Mendoza and Bob
Alright, my friends, gather and see, for I've a post from comics DC
What's the work?
Gone, gone, form of man....arise the demon Etrigan. That's the chant to call forth, from his hellish, infernal berth. Jack Kirby's creation from this chant, then reinvented by one Alan Grant. In King Arthur's time, there lived a knight, named Jason Blood who turned from the light. Betrayed Camelot to Morgana's hordes, then betrayed in turn before he could receive his rewards. Punished by Merlin with a demon bound, to his soul until redemption found.
Flash forward about a thousand years, through blood, misery and a few tears. Etrigan was reinvented, with his own series implemented. Hero, villain or simply serving, battling villains and damned deserving. I'll be discussing his 90s run, where the writers just had some fun.
Etrigan was, of course, made to speak in rhyme and 'verse. Poor Jason Blood was so tormented, by a demon increaisngly demented. But we're not here to talk of this poor man.
No, let's discuss the Etrigan.
Who is Etrigan?
Born in hell to Lord Belial, a ruthless and a clever child. Set to hellish paths, he chose another and was summoned by his half-brother. The wizard Merlin stopped him cold, and bound him to Jason Blood's damned soul. Etrigan had found those who sought salvation and convinced them to cheerfully accept damnation. His fate now caght with his fallen knight, Etrigan curiously watched him try to set things right.
While Blood's own free will dims, Etrigan emerges to chase his own whims.Outwitting villains through the ages, making fools of wizards and sages. First coming into his own under auspices of Alan Grant and...well...Etrigan's schemes outwit all of hell.
When the demon Astaroth schemes, Etrigan easily stops his dreams. By attempting to sacrifice one Glenda Mark, Etrigan outwits him with nary a lark. Separated from his host, Etrigan achieves what few can boast; proving he's his father's son, Etrigan sees hell as a prize to be won. Ruled by the triumvirate who see him as a clown, Etrigan bests them and takes the crown, reigning over hell for a time (indeed, his rank is shown with his constantl rhyme).
Drawn back to earth, Lucifer's reign in hel affixed, Etrigan decides to go into mortal politics. Almost taking the GOP nomination through Bush's cockiness (you want a joke? No, that's just too obvious), Etrigan's lark almost took that house of white, with only Superman preventing his delight.
When a group of Nazi wanted to fight, in order to start a new fourth reich, a number of heroes had to give thanks, since Etrigan brought about the famous haunted tanks. Since even demons know Nazis have to fall, Etrigan outwitted and destroyed them all. Oh, and I should mentioned before? Etrigan got bored and started a war. One between Purgatory, heaven and hell, just to enjoy when some demons fell.
And before DC was rebooted,Lucifer's trident Etrigan went and looted, making himself king of hell again. But all good things must come to an end...
How does he operate?
He's Etrigan, all charm and fire, even if you draw his ire. Ruthless and brilliant to a fault, even Batman had trouble with his assault. Granted there's some writer differences, but he's pretty consistent as it gets. Etrigan is brilliant, one can tell, by the fact he twice took over hell. A powerful demon he may be, but his wits are there for all to see.
And while his sadism can vary, I have to admit I'm not that wary. He took on Nazis and their backers three...and slapped them to literal pieces, you see. He's witty, he's charming, he's good at plots, so I think this criteria is what he's got.
Is he a bastard? Too much?
While noble under Sir Kirby's pen, Etrigan's been reinvented time and again. Ennis has him more evil than most, though typically it's the villains you'll see him roast. He'll lure others into damnation just as easily a she'll deliver people salvation. He hates Blood and will make him suffer, but will also rescue his child's mother.
Etrigan will kill on a whim, and friendliness fain, get in his will and he'll cause you pain. But he let Batman go with an affectionate peck...he's a demon, what exactly did you expect? He has a lot of qualities for the reader's hating, but just as many factors mitigating.
Conclusion?
I leave you with this, ladies and gentlemen.
A magnificent bastard is Etrigan.
Edited by Lightysnake on Nov 7th 2020 at 6:32:34 AM
A hearty to Etrigan, mayhap we'll see him here again.
Alright. Just finished the movie (credits are rolling), so here it is:
What is the work?
Point Break is a 1991 action thriller (a really good one too) in which Keanu Reeves plays Johnny Utah, a hotshot UCLA Quarterback who has passed FBI training with flying colors and now joins the search at the FBI for an expert team of crack bank robbers. His new partner has the theory that the robbers are surfers and thus, Johnny goes undercover as a surfer to find them. Sure enough, he does.
Who is he and what has he done?
Bodhi is the leader of the surfer group that Johnny falls in with through Bodhi’s ex Tyler Endicott, Johnny’s Love Interest and while it's not revealed yet at the time, HE leads his friends in the robberies. As the Ex-Presidents (they wear rubber masks and talk like them), they’ve robbed 27 banks in three years and never shot anyone while also only sticking to the tellers too (never the vaults). Johnny’s new partner Angelo Pappas as I said has studied the case all this time (while also having worked robbery for 22 years) and come up with the audacious theory the robbers are surfers based on a sand/wax sample found at one of the scenes and a tan line one of them who mooned the camera has (it’s only because of how Eccentric the theory is and the fact that until then it was hand-waved that the Ex-Presidents are even figured out to begin with, so that really speaks to the fact that they could have never, ever been tracked down without it).
Two more robberies are committed and a hair sample is collected with traces of pollution in it, so Johnny and Pappas track down the beach through hair samples and while staking it out, Bodhi saves Johnny from a group of aggressive surfers he crosses paths with (with Bodhi then inviting Johnny to a party later and helping him improve his perception of surfing in the process when Johnny rides a swell without wiping out). Johnny and Pappas learn of the leader’s priors and there’s a big shootout, only to discover the group was dealing meth instead (an undercover DEA agent was trying to find their supplier). It’s not long after that Johnny sees one of Bodhi’s guys use the same mooning technique and begins to suspect THEY’RE the actual robbers instead (with Johnny figuring out which bank they’re scoping next through surveillance and telling Pappas).
Johnny pursues Bodhi (wearing the Reagan mask) when he and Pappas attempt to bust the next robbery (during which Bodhi prevents Johnny from being shot and blows up the first getaway car along with a gas station while also convincing an attendant to not get involved or else get fried), but Bodhi escapes through a combination of Johnny landing on his bad knee and Bodhi calling his bluff with the gun. Bodhi coaxes Johnny into going sky-diving with them the next day without discussing anything about the robberies and then after reveals he’s had Tyler abducted with a video in which she’s tied up and threatened by his guy Rosie. Bodhi made sure he can’t reveal where she is or have any means of calling Rosie off when Johnny tries to choke him out and then gets Johnny to reluctantly participate in the next robbery that’s supposed to fund the team’s escape from captured (the 31st they’ve committed).
On a whim, Bodhi decides to rob the vault too and a cop and guard end up killing one of his guys, during which the guard is killed and Bodhi personally kills the cop and then Johnny is knocked out by Bodhi and left behind. Johnny and Pappas then track Bodhi to the airport with Pappas hiding while Johnny nearly convinces Bodhi to call Rosie to let Tyler go, only for another of Bodhi’s men to be killed after wounding Pappas and Bodhi’s last man Roach be fatally wounded right before he kills Pappas. Bodhi then helps Roach on the plane and forces Johnny on with them (Roach said where they were going while threatening the pilot).
Bodhi and Roach jump from the plane (with the latter dying before he hits the ground) and Johnny grabs Bodhi’s gun and jumps out without a parachute to catch up to him. Bodhi forces Johnny to pull Bodhi’s chute at the last second (with Johnny injuring his knee again), once again calling his bluff and escapes with Rosie, but not before having Tyler released with her going straight back to Johnny. Later on, Johnny tracks Bodhi down to the Australian beach where the monster swell will be coming in so he can surf it after having pursued him all through Mexico (during which it’s mentioned that Rosie was killed in a knife fight in Baja and Bodhi expresses regret that so many people died when things went bad).
After a fight between the two, Johnny nearly dies, but is able to cuff himself to Bodhi for the Australian authorities. Bodhi insists/begs Johnny release him so he can surf the waves while swearing he won’t try to escape and Johnny after a bit of thought, agrees telling him: “Vaya Con Dios.” Johnny then leaves as Bodhi while surfing falls from his board and is crushed under the force of the wave.
Is he magnificent?
The man definitely has charm to spare which certainly shines through and he and his friends definitely didn’t get as far as they did without being smart and it shows with that the skills with surfing and other things definitely supporting that too. There’s the matter of pushing the limits with the vault at the end when they did so well before as to not go too far and although that’s the robbery where things go horribly wrong as well, other elements were in play that couldn’t be predicted too, so it’s not really seen as being that dumb a decision despite clearly being ill-advised. Had it not been for the cop and guard, things probably would’ve been fine (also, facing certain death with the swell at the end is not stupid either because he knew the risk, understood it completely and chose to make it anyway).
Bastard? Too much?
Enough of a bastard certainly, though very good-natured despite that though (he’s still playful with Tyler despite not being with her anymore, though she’s never really offended by it and it’s not played skivvy). There’s the matter of abandoning Johnny at the final robbery, forcing him to commit it with them and do so completely exposed as well and Bodhi shooting the cop, but he did that all in the heat of the tension and chaos as well as not truly doing any of it out of smugness or pettiness (also, he hoped to change Johnny’s mind about trying to take them down). His wanting to not personally hurt Tyler himself and demanding she be released once he’s in the clear goes a long way too (heck, as resentfully as Johnny is of Bodhi by the end of the film, he’s still surfing everyday, so that’s how much of an impact has been made).
Verdict?
to a really good keeper for Patrick Swayze.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Nov 7th 2020 at 6:48:41 AM
Etrigan (best EP on the thread solely for the rhyming alone) and Bodhi
I have a question: Do we make a separation between the DC continuities like we do on CM, or and the writeups just in general, encompassing all the continuities?
Edited by nwotyzal on Nov 7th 2020 at 6:52:32 AM
