Now with a sandbox!
It appears that many Nightmare Fuel pages have problems, including:
1. Listing non-scary things that made the viewer feel slightly uncomfortable at worst.
2. Having spoiler tags on them (which is against the page's guidelines).
3. Listing Fridge Horror and fan theories.
And much more!
On a few occasions, people from outside the site's community have pointed out our overly lax usage of Nightmare Fuel to make fun of us, meaning that it can legitimately harm our reputation to let this go unchecked.
The TRS thread
meant for redefining Nightmare Fuel started to become a place for cleaning up Nightmare Fuel pages in general, so we may as well move these discussions to Long Term Projects where they belong.
Here are the guidelines to determine whether something is Nightmare Fuel or not.
- This is a page whose name is intended to be taken more literally than most. It's not enough for material to be scary; to truly qualify, it has to be frightening enough to legitimately unnerve/disturb the viewer, with actually being nightmare-inducing as the ultimate endpoint.
- Good signs that something IS Nightmare Fuel include if:
- It left you feeling shaken even after the credits had rolled, you turned the last page, or are otherwise done with the work.
- You have a hard time falling asleep if you think about it at night, or have a literal nightmare about it.
- You dread that episode, scene, level, chapter, or song during re-watches, and consider skipping it.
- With that said, don't add something just because it happens to be your personal phobia. For example, spiders can be scary and many people have arachnophobia, but just because a spider happens to be in the work, it does not make a Nightmare Fuel entry. It needs to reasonably be scary to someone without the phobia.
- Don't confuse tension with fear. If the hero is in trouble, but you know he'll make it out okay at the end, it's probably not Nightmare Fuel unless the threat is especially disturbing.
- Good signs that something IS Nightmare Fuel include if:
- Explain WHY the entry scared you. Try to convey your sense of fear to your readers. Avoid putting up Zero-Context Examples.
- Remember that Weblinks Are Not Examples, and neither are quotes on their own. You should explain the horror in your own words, rather than rely on others to do so.
- Don't add things that might have scared someone. If it didn't scare you, and you don't personally know anyone else who was scared, you shouldn't be adding it to Nightmare Fuel.
- Nightmare Fuel should stick to you even after you're done with the work.
- If something is initially presented as scary but turns out to be harmless, it's most likely not Nightmare Fuel since The Reveal makes the scariness vanish.
- Jump Scares are a good source of Nightmare Fuel, but not all of them automatically qualify: being startled is not the same as being scared.
- Hypotheticals are not Nightmare Fuel:
- Remember that Trailers Always Lie: a scene that is presented as scary in the trailer could very well turn out to be inoffensive in the finished work. Only add examples from unreleased works if they were especially terrifying in the previews.
- Fan theories do not belong on the Nightmare Fuel page under any circumstance. No matter how much evidence they have to support them, don't add them until they've been officially confirmed. In the meanwhile, take them to Wild Mass Guessing.
- Fridge Horror goes on the Fridge page, not Nightmare Fuel. Don't add it unless it's Ascended Fridge Horror.
- Keep in mind the work's intended audience when considering whether or not something is Nightmare Fuel.
- If something is normal or expected in the genre, it does not automatically qualify. Violence in a Fighting Series or gore in a horror movie must be especially disturbing or gruesome by the work's standards to be Nightmare Fuel.
- Remember that Kids Shouldn't Watch Horror Films. If a work is rated PG-13 or higher but would only be scary to young children, it's not Nightmare Fuel.
- The standards on what qualifies as Nightmare Fuel are especially stringent on works aimed at children and pre-teens: kids have hyperactive imaginations, so even something benign can give them nightmares.
- Spoiler tags do not belong on Nightmare Fuel pages. Much of what scares us comes from inherently spoilery stuff such as death and the unknown, so finding spoilers on these pages should be expected.
- Nightmare Fuel is an Audience Reaction, so it needs to be scary for the audience. Describing how the characters react to something scary isn't needed. Just because something scares them, that doesn't mean it scares us as well.
- Nightmare Fuel is a No Real Life Examples, Please! page. Meta-examples involving the actors, production, or behind-the-scenes incidents are not allowed.
Guidelines when proposing cleanup of a page:
- Some rules are pretty objective. If you see a Zero-Context Example, Fridge Horror, Real Life example, speculation, In-Universe reaction that isn't scary to the viewers, examples that explicitly describe themselves as not being very scary (including "mildly creepy", "somewhat unnerving", and other synonymous phrases), or examples that are just scene summaries without going into detail about why it's so scary, you can (and should) remove them immediately without coming here to ask.
- You should also strip all spoiler tags from the page. Itty Bitty Wiki Tools has a tool for that, but it can cause problems, so if you use it be sure to preview the page and thoroughly look it over.
- Once you've fixed the objective issues with the page, bring it here so we can look at the more subjective problems, such as examples that may not be scary enough to qualify. If a consensus is reached that a certain entry does not qualify, it can be removed.
Edited by Zuxtron on Aug 1st 2020 at 9:40:30 AM
In response to the Zelda Oo T page, for enemies, I think Like Likes, Redeads, Wall/Floormasters, and Dead Hand can stay due to all of them being undead, but the others? I don't think any of the other enemies, especially not Wolfos which are just wolves who make a shrill sound (isn't there a trope for that, or rather wasn't there one?) aside from maybe the Moblins (to a little kid yes, but to someone who's new to the game and isn't a kid, I'm not seeing the fear). It doesn't really even state why they are frightening.
Dark Link and Ganon are also maybes for staying. I'd cut King Dodongo and the Armos (which might be scary to little kids, one would quickly grow out of their fear) though, personally.
Could I make a Nightmare Fuel page for the fanmade mod Nimpize Adventure? (A hack made to celebrate 20 years of Oo T and has quite a few examples that are freaky, like the fact they put a Wallmaster in Jabu Jabu (probably the last place anyone would expect one) and one during the Dead Hand fight.
Edited by Klavice on Mar 14th 2019 at 10:05:05 AM
Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.
There are a couple of entries I was thinking of adding to NightmareFuel.The Last Podcast On The Left, but given the existence of this thread, I thought it might be a good idea to vet them here and get an opinion on whether or not they counted.
This first, admittedly, might fall more into Fridge Horror.
- In part two of their series on John Lennon's killer, Mark David Chapman, the hosts describe how Chapman very nearly backed out of the whole thing at the last minute after seeing the film Ordinary People while in New York specifically to commit the act and identifying with the suicidal Conrad. Marcus then notes a terrifying thought that occurred to him upon finding that out: How many others with obsessions like Chapman's came that close to doing something horrible only to back out at the last moment for one reason or another?
I'd have to re-listen to the episode mentioned here to get real specific, but this should at least offer the general idea.
- In the second episode of their "West Memphis Three" series, the hosts discuss the topic of false confessions, as one of the three being coerced into confessing is what got him and the two others convicted of murder. In the course of this discussion they talk about a case of an elderly person being killed in a nursing home. The suspects of the crime were interrogated, eventually confessed to the crime, and went to jail until it was proven conclusively that they weren't even there when it happened. Despite this, the interrogations that led to the false confessions led to those people claiming to have clear memories of committing the murder despite the fact that they were never even present.
Edited by sgamer82 on Mar 15th 2019 at 6:33:20 AM
NightmareFuel.Uchi No Maid Ga Uzasugiru is entirely made up of "this person is acting very creepy" and isn't true NF.
Looks like another page recaping every little unpleasant things that ever happened. The image isn't very creepy.
Lizzid people!
Having had taken part in making the page (and becoming aware of this cleanup), I can confirm that most of the descriptions of the titular character are creepy, but I can vouch for scenes regarding most of the regular episodes being generally played as NF such as the bear.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Being creepy doesn't equal Nightmare fuel. In fact, because of the type of serie it is, they are manly played for humor.
Lizzid people!
The bear nearly mauls a young girl. That in itself is not Played for Laughs.
I have to see the scene itself. But its mentioned just something unpleasant happen doesn't make it NF.
On that notion, Im going through the examples bit by bit.
Tsubame
- Everything about Tsubame is this. While unintentional on her part due to her experiences in the military, Tsubame is a Girly Bruiser absolutely obsessed with little girls and becomes a maid so she could get closer to Misha. Tsubame knows the exact amount of toilet paper Misha uses, she whisks her away into the woods to go camping (but she did get permission), and practically drools whilst describing Misha's physical appearance.
- Aside from Misha, Tsubame expresses interest in about any girl she sees. The first episode saw her watching some girls play while doing gardenwork; episode 3 sees Tsubame stopping to observe some girls heading to school. Episode 5 is the worst offender. She had not only followed Misha and Mimika around town, but she was wearing a bee disguise and handing out balloons to children. When she happens upon an especially young girl, Tsubame not only gives her a balloon, but also her phone number and LIME messenger. And yet, she still doesn't fathom that this was a criminal act.
- While her schoolgirl outfit and the bee suit from episode 3 were apparent, Tsubame has also masqueraded as an old woman with a dog. Worse, she had put more thought into it than with her other outfits by covering her muscles to match the visual image of an elderly woman. Thus far, Misha herself has not made the connection.
- To make matters worse? The first episode shows that Tsubame had always been like this. In a flashback to where one of her schoolmates confessed to her, Tsubame turns her down, stating that she only preferred girls that hadn't started their menstruation cycle. One can only imagine how warped Tsubame's childhood had to have been to make her like that.
This feels listing the characters unpleasant behavior which are most likely being played for comedy.
Lizzid people!
Paranoia Fuel is at play there. The other moments are just "creepy." I won't lose any sleep if those are removed. Overall, those lean more towards comedy when I look back at them, but as for everything else...the bear is played seriously as is the threat it has. I'd be happy to look at each one piece by piece, but that's not really my forte.
Edited by AustinDR on Mar 19th 2019 at 7:25:50 AM
The Simpsons lists every single ToH even the ones that aren't that scary/disgusting.
I can live with the fifth Treehouse of Horror and beyond being listed, but keep in mind this is a show intended for adults. I didn't find any bits of the first two or three Treehouse of Horror that scary, if anything it's more jumpscares. It isn't till the Fifth one where they start getting creative with the deaths and really freaky.
Should we cut the first three Treehouse of Horrors? Is Nightmare Fuel allowed to be intentionally scary? Because if not, most of the shock examples gotta go.
The second Treehouse of Horror is mostly Paranoia Fuel and Nightmare Retardant in the case of Burns putting the brain on his head.
Edited by Klavice on Mar 19th 2019 at 4:33:21 AM
Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.
Okay, as per this post, I've sent the gen:LOCK entry to the Edit Request page to have the sandbox replace the live page.
There may well be legitimate examples that haven't been added to the sandbox, so I've also added a note to redirect people to get their suggestions vetted should anyone go to that thread looking to get something added to the page.
Edited to add: After I posted on the Edit Requests thread, I noticed a troper went into the sandbox on the 16th and changed the image quote to song lyrics. That wasn't discussed on either this thread of the Image Pickin' thread, so I've reverted the sandbox back to the original quote.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Mar 19th 2019 at 12:12:42 PM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Requesting that the Web Animation/genLOCK Nightmare Fuel page have the page image and caption replaced.
- Captions for Nightmare Fuel pages generally don't use italics, unless referencing a specific quote.
- Linking Science Is Bad in the caption is a subjective trope. Generally, gen:LOCK doesn't condemn scientific advancement, only its misuses. The development of nanotech is not condemned in the show, only its use as a weapon of war.
- Union nanotech is NOT responsible for "Eaten Alive dreams". The reason the aforementioned dreams are happening is because the character in question is struggling with a traumatic experience.
- Finally, Nightmare Fuel page images generally depict examples of Nightmare Fuel. Not only is a character with a weird-looking hand not an example of Nightmare Fuel without context, the scene where the page image is from isn't even listed on the page itself. I suggest that the present image be replaced with one of Nemesis, which is generally more intimidating, and the caption adjusted accordingly.
They were chosen from the Image Pickin' thread that is located here. I assume that new information that hadn't previously been considered or rejected would require a new Image Pickin' thread to be opened with reference to the previous one so people could see what has already been discussed and to justify why a new one needs to be started.
You asked on that thread for Nemesis to be used, but your suggestion was rejected on the grounds that pictures of Nemesis just look like a generic mecha, or a generic 'mean mecha' at best. I had also offered an image of Nemesis that was rejected in favour of the image that was eventually chosen. The image that was finally chosen was both proposed and accepted with some reluctance because it's not great, it's just better than any known alternatives (and was deemed better than using an image of Nemesis).
The image quote's not suggesting that Union nanotech causes Eaten Alive dreams, it's simply a play on the fact that the image is about Cammie having a nightmare about being Eaten Alive by nanotech while the trope itself is about audience reactions instead of character reactions. That said, while the image quote wasn't rejected at any point by the Image Pickin' thread, a better alternative could probably be found (given that it was only a brainstorming suggestion in the first place). However, while I'm all for finding a consensus on a better quote, you do appear to be the troper who changed the quote without discussion and after the Image Pickin' thread had closed down, even though Willbyr had already added the Image Pickin' link to the page by that point.
While I've got no problems with people proposing a genuine alternative to the current image and quote, or cleaning up any formatting that does need to be fixed, the fact that you're trying to get this thread to overturn something that was agreed by an Image Pickin' thread in favour of a suggestion you know was shot down by that Image Pickin' thread isn't exactly a good faith argument.
Edited by Wyldchyld on Mar 23rd 2019 at 2:34:06 PM
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Hi
Let me make this even more clear: Trying to do an end run around a decision in either Image Pickin' or Trope Repair Shop because you didn't like how a thread resolved for a page is a good way to get privileges for both of those forums revoked.
If you want to make a change to the caption, the Caption Repair thread is where the discussion needs to take place. The pic stays unless/until the show presents a scene that makes for a more obviously frightening screencap.
Super Smash Bros. Ultimate has a lot of Fridge Horror in the Classic Mode folder, even though it never self-admits it
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Asked this a while ago, but is there something specific I'm supposed to comment with as far as making edits for this thread? I know it's probably not that big a deal, but I want to know before I edit the Monster Hunter page.
Is it alright if I just mention the thread's name?
Bringing the dubious examples to this thread first and cutting down on their faults is usually what you'd do before editing on the page.
I did that a few pages back.
Wait, do you mean doing all the cutting and rewriting here, showing what it looks like, and then swapping it in? No, we didn't get that far. We figured out what the obvious cuts were, but as far as rewriting and trimming and such, no one did that yet.
Edited by SapphireBlue on Mar 29th 2019 at 3:33:43 AM
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
Well, for the entries that we all agree to cut, you may as well go ahead with it and leave an edit reason pointing back to this thread in case anyone disagrees and wants to argue against a deletion.
Many of these examples objectively do not belong on a Nightmare Fuel page according to the current definition and guidelines. Technically, you could have cut all of the Fridge Horror and Zero-Context Examples without even having to ask here.
Edited by Zuxtron on Mar 29th 2019 at 8:57:46 AM
You’re right. Thanks for clarifying.
Lizzid people!
On an unrelated note, Sandra and Woo needs to be cleaned up. A majority of the entries listed are Played for Laughs. Really, the entire webcomic is not meant to be taken seriously.
he/him | Image Pickin' regular
A lot of entries on NightmareFuel.The Mysterious Mr Enter are questionable.
Keet cleanup
I took a quick look at the Sandra and Woo examples. Some of the animal violence looks keepable, but the rest is doubtful.
- The first one looks like it might be okay. It's played for Black Comedy, but it's dark enough to still potentially be scary to some.
- For the second one, I'm less sure. The "chunk of leg" looks like stereotypical cartoon meat, so it's not really graphic or disturbing. The cubs' reaction is more of a Tear Jerker than NF (and is already listed on the TJ page)
- The badly-indented sub-example is so over-the-top (the squirrel somehow fitting the bear's entire leg in her mouth) that it Crosses the Line Twice and stops being scary.
- Larisa: Seems to be mostly Fridge Horror and speculation. The part about everyone knowing where to find her is also Fridge Horror since it's said everyone who gathered to meet her collapsed into a black hole, so any potential horror stems from "what if they didn't collapse into a black hole".
- Larisa's secret: see above
- Smokey the Bear: Played for Laughs. I don't think the Black Comedy is enough to make it keepable.
- Thomas J. God: Not familiar enough with the work to say.
- Raccoon children: Looks keepable.
- John J. God: Don't know.
- Removing memories: Not scary.
- Zoey and Gilligan: Very much Played for Laughs. Not scary.
Lizzid people!
Eh..Thomas J. God. While God Is Evil is in play there with his apathy towards sending a hit on Sandra, the rest of the arc has Larissa agreeing to work with the Devil after he tells her that he's interested in making her a succubus when she died. As for the rest of the arc, the situation isn't treated with that sense of urgency. Ultimately, it's an over-the-top arc that leans more towards being too Black Comedy.
With his predecessor, I wouldn't call it scary either. What happens to him is that he basically decides to mess around with the fortunes of people spurring one of the other gods to transform into an Eldritch Abomination and devour him, leaving whatever remained of the stumps of his legs. Sounds scary, but again the end result is something that is more darkly hilarious than outright nightmarish.
Edited by AustinDR on Apr 3rd 2019 at 8:12:58 AM
Looking at James Bond, most of them don't qualify under the rules.