Prematurely launched pages and pages that weren't fully fleshed out at the point of launching, are a big problem. Since these usually share several problems at once, this thread is aimed at re-running them through the TLP for fixing - the usual fix - or cutting them if they are too bad.
Problems this thread deals with include bad names, not enough/bad examples, unclear description, etc.
For the interested, here's a list of recently created pages
. Launches
Note: Please do not request a mod to unlaunch drafts that don't have any issues besides lacking a launch notice/24hr launch notice. While 24hr launch notices are mandatory, there are a few exceptions to the rule. If you see a draft's sponsor launch a TLP without an announcement, it's best to remind them of our TLP Guidelines first. If they continue to repeatedly launch drafts without a launch notice, you can report them on Ask The Tropers or the TLP Community Issues thread.
Edited by MacronNotes on Jun 24th 2023 at 12:24:55 PM
Sorcerer in training
You sound like you need a copy-and-paste-able form PM in a document, editable in the PM form as necessary. Maybe several small paragraphs, each dealing with one of the common mistakes.
As for Sculder, boot it to YKTTW or cut, message the creator to do things properly. Something like, "Site policy is all tropes got through YKTTW to collect examples, examine tropability, and discuss proper names and descriptions. Please review Trope Namer Syndrome on why tropes should not be named after characters or show. When a trope page is made, the format is expected to follow policy and guidelines as laid out on [pages], and that each of the examples is cross-wicked to the appropriate work."
There's probably a politer way to say that, but that's the gist.
Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving. -Terry Pratchett
Zzzzzzzzzz
Analysis.Golden Raspberry Award looks like page in progress. I'd be inclined to give the person who made it a bit more time to finish it, but send them a PM suggesting that if they're going to build a page like that alone, the Sandbox is a better place to work on it until it's done.
Cutlist Sculder. It's just bad all the way around.
edited 1st Feb '14 8:47:41 PM by Madrugada
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
GasLeakYear.Gas Leak Year not only did not go through YKTTW, but is also a stub, example-less except for its 'trope namer', and appears to be more or less functionally identical to Dork Age. The creator, tcarter1102, has been messaged.
"Jack, you have debauched my sloth."
OK, health is improving, so I'll be working more thoroughly on this now.
The reason why I don't use a default text for bad trope pages is because their problems are strongly context dependent. I do use default messages for indexing and crosswicking problems, though.
Anyhow, worklist:
- GasLeakYear.Gas Leak Year: Wrong namespace, no examples and Trope-Namer Syndrome. Plus, it seems like a complaining page to me. I vote cut and re-YKTTW.
- The Girl Who Poked God With A Stick: Somewhat stubby; creator messaged.
- Analysis.Golden Raspberry Award: Going to message the troper about what Madrugada talked about.
- Remi the Grey: Still needs some help.
- Sculder: I'll probably take care of it in the next days, if nobody goes ahead.
I put Roger Federer and Rafael Nadal on the cutlist and messaged the creator to explain why.
Also, somebody already namespaced Beirut and I just did Jerusalem (which is actually better than I thought at first). All wicks have been namespaced.
Let's just say and leave it at that.
<Sigh> Still needing input on the pages mentioned here.
Worklist:
- Ice on the Rhine: Stub; creator messaged.
- The Review Team: Stub; creator messaged.
- Threading: Stub; creator messaged.
- Which Way is Where?: Stub; creator messaged.
edited 3rd Feb '14 8:05:21 AM by SeptimusHeap
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Cleric of Banjo
Yes, please cutlist Sculder. I don't really think there is a trope there (it's basically complaining about some uses of They Do), besides the Trope Namer Syndrome.
On another note, what to do about Rational Fic?
Seems like a combination of jargon and back-patting by Eliezer Yudkowsky and his adherents.
Edit, edit, edit, edit the wiki
- Drakengard: Well, wrong namespace anyway. Cutlist it.
- Sculder: Cut. It's just Relationship Reveal but main characters and an awful name.
- Rational Fic: That just seems way too gushy and not very well-defined. It's tough to glean a definition other than "the characters are smart" and past that it gets... just wanky. But There Is No Such Thing As Notability so I say send it to YKTTW for reworking with a clearer definition, less giving Methods of Rationality a tongue bath, and overall better description (it's full of circular potholes, the groupings of the fics is utterly arbitrary, and there are namespace/emphasis issues).
edited 3rd Feb '14 1:20:10 PM by Larkmarn
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Cleric of Banjo
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
![[awesome]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/minis/award_star_gold_3.png "[awesome]"){kind=small}
Also, there is Rational Fiction along with Rational Fic. Seems like they need to be informed to decide such things before they put the pages out into the wiki, at least.
Anyhoo, I'll process all these things tomorrow, as soon as I am done with my last exam.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Noah's Story Arc was prematurely launched (sort of). The description is too brief and doesn't really say anything more than "it references the flood and the two of each animal plot" of Noah's Ark. I checked the history and saw someone mistake this for The Ark so... you get where this is going.
I once PM'ed the OP to add/change the following:
- The arc does not involve "word for word" reference to the titular story, but just "put most of the earth's life in a large vessel". This way, it broadens the trope without changing the basic idea.
- A line giving an example of how it is Deconstructed.(i've mentioned this in the comments, which went)
seriously? no further work in the description? i've encountered deconstructions of this where people fight among each other because only a select few are allowed in the ark.
this also causes trouble among the ones who made the ark, as they are faced with the moral dilemma of being the ones to choose who survives and who doesn't.
note again that the ark doesn't even need to be around. just the fact that people want to board it is this trope.
The trope maker is actually Epic of Gilgamesh, I'd like to change your line saying it's Noah.A cross reference to The Ark. and a line that says that the plot does not necessarily need the vessel, as everyone could simply be tricked into believing there is one to cause panic.
She's already done the struck out ones back @ YKTTW stage, but the main problem are the remaining ones, as they're supposed to differentiate the trope further from The Ark.
There's also the examples ripped ad-verbatim off The Ark, which are also examples of this but is still formatted to focus on the vessel, not the plot. I actually noted this in the comments but no one seems to have noticed.
So, what should be done to it?
Also, is Fairy Tale Tropes even appropriate for it? O_o << EDIT: typo'd to Fairy Tail, epic fail.
edit: some markups don't work under quoteblock, <sigh>
edited 3rd Feb '14 2:56:23 PM by ShanghaiSlave
Is dast der Zerstorer? Odar die Schopfer?
Cutlisted GasLeakYear.Gas Leak Year.
"Jack, you have debauched my sloth."
OK; today's worklist incoming!
- Alone In LA: Still need input.
- The Birds Are Working and The Birds Are Watching: A little unclear on the relationship between the two; I've asked the creator to explain (and also to not blank pages). They also need indexing and crosswicking.
- FanFicRecs.Cars: I am quite inclined to cutlist it.
- Forgot Your Pass: I see we didn't cutlist this.
- Analysis.Golden Raspberry Award: Needs fixing still.
- Marvel DC Spider Man: Stubby; creator messaged.
- Noah's Story Arc: I notice a lack of crosswicking; dunno about the name.
- Premium Currency: New trope with few and poor examples and no YKTTW; didn't message yet.
- Rational Fiction: Lacks indexing and crosswicking; not sure on the concept, though.
- Serena: Stub work page; creator messaged.
- UnityUnited.Unity United: Seems like a move to Website/ is indicated here.
So it's Noah's Story Arc name that caused the misuse and not it's description?
On Noah's Story Arc, the bigger issue is that the first sentence immediately seems to restrict the trope to flood-like disasters. That's probably unnecessary. I assume that otherwise, it's the The Ark examples on this page that are the problem you are talking about, though.
On The Birds Are Watching, I just received a reply; it was a title error. I'll cutlist it.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
- Alone In LA: I say message the creator. It's Darth Wiki so I'm much more lenient.
- Fan Fic Recs.Cars: There's nothing we can really salvage there. I say PM the creator asking them to get specific examples, proper formatting, and clean it up. If they don't, then cut the sumbitch.
- Forgot Your Pass: Cutlisted.
- Analysis.Golden Raspberry Award: Was the Creator messaged? Do people think the basic idea (What it takes to be a Razzie winner) qualifies for the Analysis/ namespace?
- Premium Currency: I can't see why this can't just be mentioned in Bribing Your Way to Victory.
- Rational Fiction: Obviously the same as my feelings on Rational Fic. Cut and send to YKTTW because it's not well done.
- Serena: Wait and see if they expand.
- UnityUnited.Unity United: Namespace aside, I still feel like it's just using tropes to describe a circle of friends which really seems outside the purview of the site. Plus it's full of shoehorned tropes and ZC Es. Not to mention alphabetization just completely goes out the window by the end.
edited 4th Feb '14 11:14:37 AM by Larkmarn
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Zzzzzzzzzz
I just did a quick-and-dirty fix on the description of Noah's Story Arc. I'll go back and work on it some more over the next few days.
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
Walking the Earth
Regarding Rational Fiction, I agree that it seems way too self-congratulatory and it makes it seem that all fiction should be written that way. Also, it's a bit strange that it's two editors that are making most of the edits on the page and linking the article, both of whom have no unrelated edits.
Edit: It does seem to be primarily a Less Wrong concept, especially in relation to that "Methods of Rationality" fic. I know there's "no such thing as notability", but I think a concept that's used mainly in one forum, not very clearly defined, and doesn't seem like something that would have a lot of examples, probably wouldn't thrive.
edited 4th Feb '14 12:38:58 PM by supergod
For we shall slay evil with logic...
I see that we are getting quite a bit of activity here. I'll offer a new worklist, since there are other new pages needing screening:
- Annie Award: We need to standardize the namespace for such award things at some point.
- Ari Zonia: No tropes; creator messaged.
- Rational Fic or Rational Fiction or whatever name it's under at the moment: One, it seems to be a valid concept judging by a Google search. That said, I am not sure if they are the same concepts. It also needs some work done - crossreferencing, mainly.
- TagPro: Stubby work page; creator messaged.
- World Domination: Stub; creator messaged.
Annie Award: Does that page do anything that The Other Wiki's page does but with more detail? I don't see the point of it.
The rest I say we give them time and see if they destub them.
... did the last one just copy/paste the template in its entirety?
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
They are improving, but a lot of ZCE and bullet point misusage, a problem page as well as overuse of {{ and }} (yeah, I know, Arson, Murder, and Jaywalking) warrants another message.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
My impression has always been that Rational Fic(tion) is an actual, if derivative sub-genre of fanfiction. That said, the page as written is so terrible that I'd be in favor of sending it back to YKTTW.
Hi! Just a quick remark to say that putting up Rational Fic without YKTTW wasn't my idea, though I did do an emergency edit to the page because the author's ideas about "Rational Fic" had diverged greatly from what I'd previously written about the subgenre of rationalist fiction. I could list maybe 5-8 explicitly rationalist well-written fanfictions plus 4 old-school explicitly-cognitive-rationality-related science-fiction stories by two authors. I'm not regularly active on TV Tropes so I've no idea if that makes a page.
To certain posters in this thread: Try to keep the Less Wrong hatedom better focused, please? Not everything done by any person anywhere on the Internet is a plot backed by Eliezer Yudkowsky and a conspiracy composed of every person who has ever posted to LW. LW is an Internet forum with ~1200 users active enough to respond to the annual survey. It has the same diversity of J. Random Users who then go on to do other stuff as, oh, I don't know, TV Tropes... meh, I give up, all authors everywhere are not only responsible for every action of every person who likes their stuff, we planned it all. Yeah, it's a conspiracy.
About UnityUnited.Unity United, I am inclined to put it under website.
About Analysis.Golden Raspberry Award, it doesn't look like an analysis to me. Inclined to cut.
Other worklist:
- A Hundred Thousand Bad Jokes: Stubby; creator messaged
- Sculder: Newly created trope without YKTTW, some formatting and crosswicking issues and Trope-Namer Syndrome. I didn't message the account as I am not in the mood of dealing with yet another bad trope page.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman