Welcome to the Content Violations Discussion forum, where we discuss whether a work violates The Content Policy.
Remember that the forum rules apply here
, plus the following:
- You don't PM moderators about stuff pertaining to the policies, except for thread reasons;
- We tolerate links to scanlation sites unlike in the rest of the site due to its purpose, although it's preferred to remove them when they have done their jobs;
- The forum is not a soapbox for your own views on the policy or on morality. Please leave them at the door.
Violations of these rules can result in a ban from the subforum, or from the entire forum.
Otherwise:
Also, keep in mind that there are works that we don't want flagged without a really good reason as they are not likely in violation of policy:
- Is a film rated below "R" for U.S. distribution.
- Is a show that can be aired on prime time television.
- Is a video game that is rated below "M" by the ESRB.
- Is a written work that is sold in major bookstores without an "adult" or "mature" label.
- Is an anime/manga/etc. that is approved for U.S. import as a non-adult work.
- Is read/shown/taught in high school or below.
- Is in another format and meets equivalent criteria.
What we're looking for:
- Pure porn, or porn with an Excuse Plot only,
- Anything that has explicit underage sex,
- Implied sex of preteens or younger, and
- Fanservice intended to cater to pedophiles (lolicon and shotacon fanservice can count).
A couple of guidelines so the procedure can move smoothly:
- Do not list whole indexes or works just because they are on a certain index or have lolicon, H-Game or shotacon on their trope list.
- Do not list works you know nothing about without at least reading the trope page.
- Do not list works that you know are G-rated but you find creepy.
- If it's paedophile-pandering approximately how old are the characters involved? What happens? Is it graphic? Is it merely implied?
- List what objectionable content there is, and how much of the work consists of that.
- If it's entirely sex, say so. People have different ideas of what porn is. We all have the same idea of what a work being entirely sex scenes is.
- If you're not sure about a work, say so, or ask someone who does know that work. But don't make blanket accusations. Post here: "I don't know about this work, but the page says X".
- Google and Wikipedia are your friendsnote . Do a little digging on works you aren't sure about.
Also, in the case of H Games, there is this questioning to fill up:
- When are the sex scenes located?
- Are they spread out over the game?
- How much gameplay is there between sex scenes?
- Are they only at the endings?
- How hard do you have to work to get an ending?
- Are they in every ending? Every good ending?
- Are the sex scenes optional via a choice in the menu?
- Would the story make sense without them with minimal or no rewriting?
- Are the scenes made up of stills, or are they animated?
- How explicit are the sex scenes?
- This isn't a headcount. Your opinion is only considered if it explains in at least some detail how you came to the conclusion that the work is/isn't porn/paedopandering.
- When a moderator determines that the discussion has yielded a consensus, they can enact its conclusion/ask a moderator to enact the conclusion.
- The discussion is only about whether the work qualifies as porn or as paedopandering. We don't assess anything else in this process.
.
Q: Why is this happening?
A: Concerning the porn, it tends to attract creepy edits that have brought us into issues with the adservers while not significantly contributing to our core purpose - tropology. Concerning paedophilia-pandering, such works are just plain creepy to have pages about.
Q: What can I do to help clean the site?
A: You can flag content as unsuitable using the flag tool, which is located in the Tools menu to the right of each article, keeping the criteria in mind. Also, you can help enforce No Lewdness, No Prudishness across the wiki, possibly though cleaning pages listed in this Long Term Projects thread.
Q: This work is not actually/primarily pornographic. Why was it cut?
A: This could be for a number of different reasons. If the work was deemed to be paedopandering, for example, it will be cut whether or not it's actually sexually explicit. Being pro-paedophilia or pandering to paedophiles is bad enough, even if the work is nominally anti-paedophilia. Of course, it's possible that there was a mistake and then you should appeal it - please check the reasons first, however.
Q: This work is being/has been cut, but it is not a violation of the Content Policy. How do I make an appeal?
A: Flag the work page using the button in the sidebar and state your reasons for restoration.
Q: This work is pretty much pure porn, but it's really good porn. Can an exception be made?
A: Nope, sorry. If it's mainly porn, it goes.
Q: Why would you cut this? In [culture x], it is totally acceptable.
A: The vast majority of our readers come from the Americas or Western Europe, so we will be adhering to what could broadly be termed "Western" standards. This means we will not be permitting works which sexualize 12 year olds, and nor will we be demanding that every picture of a woman on the site must wear a burqa.
Q: How can you possibly claim to know authorial intent? (Roland Barthes is my co-pilot.)
A: It is not important what the authorial intent was, only the outcome.
Q: Wikipedia have articles on all kinds of awful stuff. Why can't we do the same?
A: Wikipedia is a strictly academic site. They have to cite sources and a "no censorship rule". They also do not aim to be Family Friendly, and are not reliant upon third party ads for funding. Conversely, one of our stated aims is to celebrate fiction, and our generally light, non-negative tone is a reflection of this, which has led to much more gushing about inappropiate content.
Q: So should I take every article here as an endorsement of whatever it describes?
A: No, of course not. We have pages on Greedy Jew, Adolf Hitler and Mein Kampf after all. However, if we choose to focus our attention on schoolgirls' thighs or porn, it does reflect very poorly on us. Fan Fic Recommendations are a slightly different issue. If a work is recommended there, this should be taken as an endorsement by the troper who wrote it.
Q: Are we allowed to make forum threads about works processed by the Content Violation Discussions forum?
A: If it was voted "clean and keep", a forum thread is relatively safe as long as it is restricted to talking about the clean parts. Anything with a stronger judgement is discouraged on the forums.
Q: Where can I find decisions regarding a work?
A: They are linked from the discussion page. Sometimes the old list of content reviews or the thread list in this forum can help as well.
Q: I still have some questions/concerns.
A: We will be happy to answer them. There is a thread for this.
- Guro: Violence played for titillation. (contrast Gorn)
- 5P or P5: The panel that administered the policy prior to the review system being overhauled in 2022. See 5P.
- P(a)edoshit: Older term for "P(a)edopandering", deprecated for being inflammatory.
- Porn: A work mostly concerned with sexual arousal. Having NSFW or explicit scenes doesn't automatically make a work porn — it's when showcasing explicit scenes is the entire point of the work.
Also, questions about the policy can be asked here. They will be added to this thread's FAQ section once answered.
Edited by SeptimusHeap on Apr 27th 2024 at 7:29:01 PM
Captain of USS Bajor
I agree, that would be a good thing to do.
Animu
It's a good idea but I feel most works we review here are either very niche or their pages haven't been mantained in years.
Yeah, but sometimes we get a work like Redo of Healer or Cuties where we have a major fight over a well-known work.
I despise hypocrisy, unless of course it is my own.
Sorry wrong thread, [please delete this post]
Edited by glider521al on Apr 17th 2024 at 6:18:09 PM
Nolo contendere
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Can't delete posts. It's fine to leave as-is.
There is a work I was curious about: PAW Patrol: Outside the Missions. This is a PAW Patrol fanfic that has a very ill-formatted page, so I was looking into this fanfic to try and fix it, but after reading some chapters I'm more worried about it. Most of the chapters are just PG-PG 13 with some mild content but nothing violating. However, the chapter "Experimenting" has a scene with Rex and Jura (who is an OC) touching each others penises and they are described to get sexual pleasure from this action. "Promises Kept" is a followup where again the same action occurs. There's also the arc with Skye checking out adult library books and thus making the other pups uncomfortable with inappropriate and sexual comments. She is eventually told that masturbation is a way to solve her sexual feelings. Lastly "Ryder's Fear" has both Rocky (although his is for non sexual purposes and simply mere enjoyment) and Chase (due to wanting to be close to Skye) masturbating as well.
The reason why I'm unsure is that the other chapters in the fanfic I don't feel are violating, but these one I feel are since the PAW patrol pups are considered children in both their original show (as they are all voiced by child actors and have single digit ages) and in this fanfic (as Turbot specifically states that Rex and Jura are too young to engage in this actions, Skye bypasses the adult section restrictions by claiming pup's don't count as children, and Skye's sexual thoughts are specifically stated to be seen as unnatural for her age)
Do we need both this thread and "Content Violations Discussions forum rules & procedure " stickied?
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
the Retromancer
I'd be very surprised if they are not
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Very Spooky
We’ve brought other works (particularly fanfics) under scrutiny for potentially policy-violating content in the past, so I’d say we can start a thread for it.
I'd start a thread but I already started a different work one a few days ago (which no one has even responded too) so I think I should wait a bit to see the other one out.
Infinite Ideas, Zero Good.
x5 Yeah that absolutely sounds like a Content Violation. If the fanfic all-but states that they're underaged in-story (like, no believable age-up) and they get in acts that explicit, I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter how much of the rest of the story is worksafe, bare minimum that should probably get a thread. Though the only way I can see that being keepable is if the fic genuinely portrays this as a respectful, tasteful sort of coming of age thing, and to throw my two cents in there (not making an official vote since I'm just going off of the post), when it comes to fanfiction or other indepenent web stories the default is that it isn't.
Edited by greatpikminfan on Apr 24th 2024 at 12:28:34 PM
I write stupid crap about naked people.
(Repeats my question)
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
We probably should.
Meanwhile, "The Place for Purging Porn and Pedo-Pandering (AKA P5 flag evaluations)" thread is kind of just a general talking shop for this forum, so I'm not sure whether it should be or not.
Edited by Ramidel on Apr 25th 2024 at 3:05:26 AM
I despise hypocrisy, unless of course it is my own.
Captain of USS Bajor
Yeah, I think the two threads are basically redundant. I would be inclined to keep this one because Clear, Concise, Witty and close the other.
Edited by StarSword on Apr 25th 2024 at 9:16:40 AM
Angry babby
Regarding the PAW Patrol thing: While it probably needs its own flag and thread, I would say if there's non-sexual stories, those can possibly be troped, with a notice excluding "Experimenting," "Promises Kept," and any other chapter with explicit sex scenes between those characters. A character struggling with precocious sexuality Played for Drama doesn't need to be banned outright IMO, but since the story seems to be posted as multiple stories in one series, it's probably easier to ban per chapter. (Or the author doesn't know FF.net decorum.)
Honestly I'm not sure if we enforce the pedopandering stuff as strongly when it's dogs, but given we've treated MLP fics with similar weight, I wouldn't mind cutting it entirely. If the Skye thing persists across multiple stories and crosses a particularly graphic line, then that might kill it. And given the state of the page it won't be losing much anyway.
Edited by mightymewtron on Apr 25th 2024 at 9:58:17 AM
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Hmm. My thinking was that "The Place for Purging Porn and Pedo-Pandering (AKA P5 flag evaluations)" would be a place to discuss whether to flag something or not, but since this thread is already being used for this, maybe it can be retired too.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
the Retromancer
I'd figure that "P5" is for discussing if a specific work warrants a flag, while this thread is intended for The Content Policy discussion and procedures specifically. Them being in the same forum and ambiguous names probably creates confusion.
Edited by Amonimus on Apr 26th 2024 at 12:44:09 PM
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Animu
The P5 flag thread is where I was having the discussion about unlocking the pages kept locked for CV reasons. Could we proceed with the rest of them?
Edit: listing them again because p5 was closed.
- F.A.T.A.L.: How bad is the rape stuff here?
- Fifty Shades of Grey: Maybe the gushing fanbase isn't a problem in this current year.
- Gor: Not sure about this one.
- Lolita: Quite controversial, should be kept locked.
- Lychee Light Club: Seems like the problematic content is gore, which isn't covered by the Policy. Could be unlocked.
- Playboy: No tropeworthy content, keep locked.
- Salò, or the 120 Days of Sodom: An exploitation film with torture.
- A Serbian Film: A disturbing ExploitationFilm, but not porn.
- Vase de Noces: Simulated beastiality makes me doubtful about unlocking this one.
- The World's Breast Tropes: An index of valid fanservice tropes doesn't have troubles with content policy and it feels like a Double Standard that there's also the unlocked Phallic Index. If we unlock it, we should add a Don't change the pic notice to the image though.
Edited by animuacid on Apr 27th 2024 at 7:41:31 PM
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
Taimanin Yukikaze's English release got a censored version- will play to see if how much censorship there is (i.e. passable to the point where much of the story remains or just guts out all the endings),.
MB Pending | MB Drafts | MB Dates
Captain of USS Bajor
By reputation, FATAL is more edge for the sake of edge than anything else. It's kind of like the TTRPG equivalent of My Immortal.
Edited by StarSword on Apr 29th 2024 at 10:41:58 AM
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
Alright, I managed to go through the censored version of Taimanin Yukikaze, and much like Taimanin Asagi, all h-scenes, including the bad ends have been removed due to their excessive porn. Because watching the bad ends were required to see the true end in the original, this was also modified so that you can see the true end in the censored version. Some parts of the prologue were also mysteriously removed, but frankly, since it contained very little relevance, it probably didn't matter too much. Overall would make this a similar case to Taimanin Asagi, trope only the censored version.
MB Pending | MB Drafts | MB Dates
Animu
Interesting. Do you think the plot/porn ratio in the +18 version is high enough to trope it too? At least the CGs look less violent.
Edited by animuacid on Apr 30th 2024 at 9:41:09 PM
Unofficial co-Wiki Curator for Magnificent Bastard
Frankly, I'm not too sure, so I decided to be on the safe side and trope only the censored version.
There's a chance that some of the editors who frequent the page might be familiar with the work, so yes.
MB Pending | MB Drafts | MB Dates