Real Life section maintenance

I also agree that those are all misuse.

I noticed that Wardrobe Malfunction lists real-life cases in the Live-Action TV, Music, and Pro Wrestling folders. It's also on Sandbox.NRLEP Sex With Explanations, but doesn't have a clearly visible No Real Life Examples, Please! warning anywhere on the page. I'm pretty sure it should be cleaned up, but I figured I'd ask here first.

It was added to the sandbox back in July and I don't remember if there was a crowner for it or not.

If it's not formally NRLEP, I would be down for making it such.

I don't think it was on a recent crowner.

I created Sandbox.No Real Life Examples Please to help sort out all of the tropes on the NRLEP subindexes

If it's necessary to mention, the person who added it to the sandbox was Miss Conduct. I'd ping them over but it's unclear if they just haven't been on or if they're ghosting this thread now after the most recent crowner debate as I tried pinging them to wiki talk and got no response there. I just thought it was worth noting this as some of the tropes on the sandbox apparently may not have gone through the crowners, so we have to vet what we're moving over.

No, Wardrobe Malfunction was on a recent crowner.

Are we keeping the explanations that I and others have been working on on the sandboxes? People kept asking for those, so I think it would save us time in this thread in the future if we kept them.

Okay, it wasn't on any of the RL pages though so it's kinda weird that it was only on the sandbox. But fair enough.

And yeah we want to keep the explanations which is why I was concerned about "vetting", based on the chance that not everything on them had been crownered. We're just ditching the categories, as discussed at Wiki Talk, so that discussions can stop centering on "it's not controversial / it's not gossip / it's not morality" etc and focus on the actual issues present in the section.

Looks like most if not all of those tropes on that crowner aren't on the official indexes. I think it'll be better if we just work what's on the sandboxes since they have all of the tropes on the crowner.

As for vetting, I guess we could make a list of things that were unilaterally added to the index although that would require a lot of digging. A lot of the old crowners are inaccessible as well.

Edited by MacronNotes on Aug 17th 2023 at 2:05:42 PM

Yeah, I was told to just add the new tropes to the sandboxes, since the idea at the time was we'd just swap them in when the explanations were done. Nothing since June-ish has been added to the main pages.

There was a decently positive reception at the sandboxes to some tropes being grouped together, if they have basically the same explanation as to why they're NRLEP. For instance, it's redundant to list "it's a trope about a sexual act" as the note for every sex trope, so will we need to, for instance, individually list out explanations for Pity Sex, Rescue Sex, Auto Erotica, and Three-Way Sex, even though it's completely the same reason for all three, or are these smaller groups okay to keep?

Edited by MissConduct on Aug 17th 2023 at 2:07:55 PM

If the list's being changed to being sorted alphabetically, the tropes wouldn't be sorted together anyway, so can get explanations on their respective alphabetical pages and probably should for intuition's sake; it'd be a bit confusing to have folders for "sex tropes", "calling people good or evil", "artistic license", etcetera while the rest of the list's alphabetical.

Edited by NonexistentYeets on Aug 17th 2023 at 2:23:08 PM

Yeah, exactly.

And this is also a good chance to weed out any tropes we don't have explanations for, either because they were added to pages unilaterally or because they were from the old crowner system and weren't properly vetted. Not that we should get rid of all of those tropes, but we should discuss ones that pop up to see if they're worth keeping or re-crownering.

Hybrid Monster is definitely Impossible, since it is a combination of two different mythical creatures, which don’t exist in real life. The two examples that are present talk about hybrids of real world animals, so those aren’t even examples to begin with. Relates to the NRLEP trope Mix-and-Match Critters.

Thank god I remembered we have a thread for this

End of an Era

• The capture of Constantinople by the Turks in 1453 marked the end of The Middle Ages, and it was also the final defeat of the Roman Empire that had been in existence for almost two thousand years (as the Byzantine Empire in its medieval phase). By then, the Empire was just The Remnant and Land of One City, but the defeat sent shockwaves through all of Christendom. The fifteenth century also brought the flowering of the Italian Renaissance and the beginnings of the Protestant Reformation that ended the religious dominance of the Catholic Church in Western Europe.
  • Of course, this is a highly contentious issue - for others, the End of The Middle Ages is marked not by the fall of Constantinople, but by Columbus' first voyage (1492) or Luther's Reformation. And from a Greek-Byzantine point of view, there were no Middle Ages, the fall of Constantinople marking the end of antiquity. To a large extent, "The Middle Ages" is a construct of snooty Renaissance writers badmouthing their antecedents. In the view of many (social) historians, the Middle Ages went on until the 18th century in many respects throughout large parts of Europe.

I dont know what to do with this piece of Natter or if its correct at all.

Many historians consider Constantinople the end of the Middle Ages, even if other disagree. The rest is unrelated wonk, particulary about the "Middle Ages aren't a real thing" which is inaccurate. Cut the second part.

Has anyone discussed December–December Romance? I can't see any mention of it.

At first glance, it feels like it's too common - is "old people start new relationships" really RL tropeworthy? May–December Romance is already NRLEP on that basis.

The handful of RL examples on the page are either generic (old people have sex and catch STIs), unremarkable or noteworthy because of other things - the couple that "made national headlines eleven years later in 1997 after disappearing while driving to a local music festival", for example.

Edited by Mrph1 on Aug 18th 2023 at 10:16:32 AM

Yeah, it's probably too common to catalogue. May–December Romance was NRLEP'd for being gossipy as well (compare Trophy Wife).

Too Much Information definitely seems like Gossip to me, and I feel like the title alone is enough to say why it is gossip. It’s also attracting stereotypes, like with old people and people on the Autistic spectrum.

Uh, guys, keep in mind that we're no longer doing the categories. We're trying to crowner based on the content of the sections now.

Speaking of which, Sandbox.No Real Life Examples Please (which is being used to sort the listings as part of replacing categories with strictly alphabetical order) isn't done yet. I checked the history and Macron used NoRealLife.Morality Tropes as a starting point, but no other sections have been merged into the list yet, and I think getting that done would work better as a group effort.

I'm going to put an update in the sticky and link to the sandbox for now.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 20th 2023 at 1:11:54 PM

Agreed with putting crowners on hold until the sandbox is done. That certainly makes things easier.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 20th 2023 at 1:12:58 PM

Yeah, I was gonna say we should get this done first before worrying about discussing and crownering sections (especially since the crowner system itself has been having issues).

As War Jay says, we need to evaluate based on the content of the sections. I think it'd be better to paste the RL sections here and evaluate the examples as they are, rather than to evaluate based on vague descriptions.

That way we can also determinate if there is a problem with the RL section in general or if it's something that can be solved with a clean up.

Edited by UchuuFlamenco on Aug 20th 2023 at 11:19:30 AM