Note: If a newly launched trope was already given a No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only designation while it was being drafted on the Trope Launch Pad, additions to the proper index do not need to go through this thread. Instead, simply ask the mods to add the trope via this thread
.
This is the thread to report tropes with problematic Real Life sections.
Common problems include:
- Conversation on the Main Page
- Flame Bait
- Squicky content
- Impossible in Real Life
Real Life sections on the wiki are kept as long as they don't become a problem. If you find an article with such problems, report it here. Please note that the purpose of this thread is to clean up and maintain real life sections, not raze them. Cutting should be treated as a last resort, so please only suggest cutting RL sections or a subset thereof you think the examples in question are completely unsalvageable.
If historical RL examples are not causing any problems, consider whether it would be better to propose a No Recent Examples, Please! (via this forum thread) for RL instead of NRLEP. If RL examples are causing problems only for certain subjects, consider whether a Limited Real Life Examples Only restriction would be preferable to NRLEP.
If you think a trope should be No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only, then this thread is the place to discuss it. However, please check Keep Real Life Examples first to see if it has already been brought up in the past. If not, state the reasons and add it to the crowner.
Before adding to the crowner:
- The trope should be proposed in the thread, along with reasons for why a crowner is necessary instead of a cleanup.
- There must be support from others in thread.
- Any objections should be addressed.
- Allow a minimum of 24 hours for discussion.
When adding to the crowner:
- Be sure to add the trope name, a link to where the discussion started, the reasons for crownering, whether the restriction being proposed is NRLEP or LRLEO (and in the latter case, which subject(s) the restriction would be for), and the date added.
- Announce in thread that you are adding the item.
- An ATT advert should be made as well (batch items together if more than one trope goes up in a day).
In order for a crowner to pass:
- Must have been up for a minimum of a week
- There must be a 2:1 ratio
- If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple extra days to see if any more votes come in
- Once passed, tropes must be indexed on the appropriate NRLEP index
- Should the vote fail, the trope should be indexed on KRLE page
Sex Tropes, Rape and Sexual Harassment Tropes, and Morality Tropes are banned from having RL sections so tropes under those indexes don't need crowner vote.
Crowner entries that have already been called will have "(CLOSED)" appended to them — and are no longer open for discussion.
After bringing up a trope for discussion, please wait at least a day for feedback before adding it to the crowner.
NRLEP tag:
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800
LRLEO tag:
%%The following restrictions apply: [list restriction(s) here]
%%https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13350380440A15238800
Notes:
- This thread is not for general discussion regarding policies for Real Life sections or crowners. Please take those conversations to this Wiki Talk thread.
- Do not try to overturn previous No Real Life Examples, Please! or Limited Real Life Examples Only decisions without a convincing argument.
- As mentioned here, the consensus is that NRLEP warnings in trope page descriptions can use bold text so that they stand out.
- The [[noreallife]] tag doesn't currently work. This is a deprecated tag that was introduced many years ago — originally, it would have displayed a NRLEP warning banner when you edited the page. However, there's been some staff conversation (Feb 2024) about what a new technical solution might look like, so we'd advise against deleting these from pages, at least until we have a decision as to whether it'll be fixed or replaced.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 8th 2024 at 10:49:13 AM
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Guys, there's a difference between a real-life section and a creator's page, and creator's pages, despite their name, are about the works the creator made, not them as a person. That's the difference. It'd be like troping a book's author on a page for that book. You just don't do it. But real-life sections on trope pages are slightly different.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
You'll never find out who I am
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I axed the real life section on No Longer with Us, but I thought your logic was that none of the people were named? Since this is the first time you've spoken against cutting examples that trope real people.
Angry babby
It is definitely not the first time I've spoken against people cutting entire sections without going through the crowner. I spoke against it four days ago, too. And I vouched for a few sections here, too. I actually frequently speak here in defense of nonproblematic RL sections. Names have nothing to do with it.
Edited by mightymewtron on Jul 18th 2022 at 2:25:52 PM
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
Calling these for NRLEP:
Calling this for KRLE:
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
4 X and 5 X
The argument to keep non-problematic entries in Real Life folders that trope real people like fictional characters just doesn't make any sense to me. At all. This means, among other things, that I could do a non-problematic trope of a Creator in a trope's Real Life folder, but am forbidden from putting the exact same entry on the Creator page itself. It simply feels arbitrary and inconsistent, and the rationale to maintain this disconnect between Real Life folders and Creator pages feels bogus and forced. I'm extremely uncomfortable playing ball with this kind of irrational thinking when doing folder clean up, and plan to leave this forum as a result as I see no way to reconcile this.
But I do want to note that if "The difference is that Creator pages function to give a view of a person's work and public persona" is accurate, that would make me correct in objecting to Lord Gro gutting the Brahms page, as some of the cut entries address aspects of his career. Never mind the fact that "Please resist the urge to apply character tropes to Real Life people" was interpreted as being absolute when the wording in fact allows leeway. At the time, I was ganged up on here and told all my concerns were invalid. I was nice about it then and backed down — and probably shouldn't have. I'm very tempted to renew this particular argument at another venue and fight back hard on it. If so, am thinking ATT is the proper place to do so, maybe by resurrecting that thread.
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Don't, you probably would have better luck with a wiki talk thread. ATT isn't for policy debates.
Problem is, the policy makes perfect sense to me and probably to everyone else who who agrees that character tropes shouldn't be on creator pages. It's just hard to articulate the difference between trope pages and creator pages better than I already tried to.
Edited by WarJay77 on Jul 18th 2022 at 9:21:37 AM
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Four historical-reenactment examples from the RL section of Anachronism Stew. Where, if anywhere, should they be re-filed?
- Any event of the Society for Creative Anachronism, where you can see examples of everything from 16th-century German armor to Moors to Vikings to Romans to Samurai all competing in the same tournament, or a Viking chatting with an Elizabethan lady over a display of Catholic prayer beads. Largely a result of the basic structure of the organization; anything before 1600 AD is fair game for re-enactment. Individuals will generally be faithful to a period in their dress, though this also varies. And they merrily lampshade it themselves, as in Our Kind II: Mistress Laurel Seamchecker Explains It All At You, in which a character explains that "Historically, clothing is divided into three periods: bearskins, funny clothes, and modern."
- Medieval Re-enactors in the UK used to annually attend the Battle of Tewkesbury each year, but until recently, it was well-known for allowing anyone with a vaguely medieval kit (garb to SCA types) onto the field. At one of the last events, before it changed to a more authenticity based re-enactment, it wasn't uncommon to see 9th century Vikings, the (ubiquitous) kilted Scotsmen and Normans from 1066 fighting against bill blocks.
- Camlann Medieval Village, outside Seattle, does an admirable job of being as authentic as possible. Unfortunately, drive for authenticity doesn't exempt them from liquor laws, fire codes, or health regulations — forcing them to institute smoke detectors, ID checks, and plastic take-home containers.
- Cowboy Action Shooters love this trope. While participants are encouraged to wear an appropriate costume, there is no rule forbidding (for example) a Confederate soldier from using an M1887 Winchester shotgun. Part of this is because the governing organization permits and encourages Western movies to be used as inspiration, and classic Westerns are notorious for this trope.
Edited by Carnildo on Jul 18th 2022 at 11:08:13 AM
Angry babby
Theatre or LARP, maybe?
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
You'll never find out who I am
Both examples on Video Call Fail trope real people.
- There was an incident in 2021 which had Texan attorney Rod Ponton accidentally go on to Zoom during a hearing with a cat filter that he didn't know how to take off, leading him to appear as a giant cat for the hearing. His insistence that "I'm not a cat" actually became Memetic Mutation for a while.
- In early 2020, Rachele Clegg shared a tweet mentioning that her boss Lizet Ocampo accidentally turned on a filter during a Zoom meeting that made her look like a potato. Since Ocampo couldn't figure out how to turn off the filter, she was stuck like that for the entire meeting.
Angry babby
I do not see that as problematic. Unless you're arguing it's too common.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
It has the potential to spiral out of control, since 2020 exponentially increased the amount of Zoom type calls. Over on youtube you can find numerous compilations of video call fails.
However, two examples is not excessive (and they both seem to fit), so it is not now currently out of control. Should it start to grow we could re-visit, but for right now I think it's fine.
I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
Plus they're troping real events, not the people in said events. Important distinction.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
This was a few days ago but can I ask something about the Mandela Effect removals? Some of them were removed for troping real people but I don't think they were all about the person themselves but rather an event associated, like Betty White's death or Tank Man being run over. Mother Teresa's entry wasn't removed, even though it technically does address a person.
Edited by nw09 on Jul 20th 2022 at 4:45:19 AM
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I found out about it here and I agree it was pretty premature. At the very least it needed discussion, and I don't remember it being mentioned here.
Mandela Effect is YMMV, so I question why there are any RL examples at all. While I know our notability standards are far lower than other wikis, the examples over there all seem to be of the "I once read that some people may think that ..." type.
Shouldn't we at least verify that these are things that actually exist?
I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I mean, they're about common misconceptions people talk about. There's functionally no difference between "people think Pikachu has a black tail" and "people think Mandela died in prison". They're held to the same evidence standards as all other audience reactions - that is, if we can verify the reaction exists, then that's all that's needed.
Edited by WarJay77 on Jul 20th 2022 at 8:05:59 AM
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Yes, verification is my point. The RL section contains gems like this:
- New Zealand is southeast of Australia, but there are people who insist they remember it being northeast of the continent.
I've never heard of such a thing, do people actually remember things this way? Was there a study, or an article or blog or FB post of someone claiming this? Was it made up entirely? There is zero verification of this.
I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
You'll never find out who I am
A lot of the examples on Mandela Effect don't have any verification. Why are you pointing out unverified examples on the real life section specifically?
Because this is the RL maintenance thread.
Yes, a lot of those examples are equally sketchy to the point of me wondering what value it actually brings. But that would be a whole other fight for another venue.
I didn't choose the troping life, the troping life chose me
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I can see what you're saying, but I think this issue wouldn't be resolved just by deleting the RL section, since as I said, nothing about those examples make them any different than the ones about fiction. It's a different problem.
Edited by WarJay77 on Jul 20th 2022 at 9:04:50 AM
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Angry babby
And again, if there are issues with that section, it should be brought here first for a vote, not deleted because someone unilaterally decided it should be NRLEP. Not sure why this is becoming such an issue lately.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Given that Dirty Cop was kept in one crowner but is going to die in this one (both times accusing it of being a morality trope), I was asking myself, what tropes would fit cops doing something questionable but they aren't treated as evil for it (i.e. it doesn't make them "dirty")?
Edited by Albert3105 on Jul 21st 2022 at 12:34:14 PM
Depending on your definition of "questionable" there, you are most likely looking at a Cowboy Cop. That one tends to cover your Dirty Harry's who violate police procedures and civil liberties, but still get the bad guys off the street.
Should we also put Dirty Cop under "Too Controversial" when the crowner closes?
Crown Description:
Vote up to either forbid all real life examples (No Real Life Examples Please) or forbid real life examples for specific subjects (Limited Real Life Examples Only); vote down to Keep Real Life Examples. To add a trope to a No Real Life Examples Please index or the Limited Real Life Examples Only index, its crowner option must meet the following criteria:- Stable 2:1 ratio needed for NRLEP or LRLEO
- Must have been up for a minimum of a week
- If the vote is exactly 2:1 or +/- 1 vote from that, give it a couple of extra days to see if more votes come in.
I think, unless it's blatant trope misuse, generally we should run these items through the crowner before cutting, because right now, the pinned post doesn't say we can't trope real people at all, only when it risks being controversial.
Personally I think real life sections on non-gossipy, SFW trope pages that discuss real people aren't inherently bad (and the pinned post seems to suggest the same), as they can give real-life context on the trope and show how real life and fiction intertwine. The difference is that Creator pages function to give a view of a person's work and public persona, while trope pages give context for a trope, including real life things that may not even have their own pages, much less be able to be crosswicked. I assume it's not the same sort of 1:1 crosswicking rule as with work pages but I could be wrong, I'm no mod.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.