Discussion Horrible / Anime

Yeah, after watching the review and the show, it's definitely more in the So Bad, It's Good territory. Moreover, much of the hate seems to come from those who expected a sequel to Ninja Scroll which, while understandable, is not SBIH. You made your case, but we're going to need to find some good qualifiers as the anime page is one of the shortest SBIH pages.

Let's see, out of all the shows listed, only those in Absolute Trash could qualify. Even then, I think Irregular at Magic High School might be disqualified for having some following.

Dai Shogun: Great Revolution sounds like a clear qualifier, however.

Poor animation and jokes ruined by text narration and hopeless directing. It also has got poor reviews and, while it has a 6.50 on My Anime List, it seems to be from total apathy or sarcasm from the few anime fans. Sounds like a qualifier to me.

Yeah, I agree as well. Anyone else?

No objection here.

Agree with the change.

Me too.

Go ahead and implement this change.

...After a while, I moved it, but for some reason I wasn't able to put in the disclaimer at the top. Any help on that?

The Flame Bait banner? I've just added it.

Yes, it is smaller.

Aside from natural biases, there is the Import Filter. Anime that is truly Horrible is rarely going to be seen by a non-Japanese reader — someone has to take the trouble to dub or sub and import or pirate it, and life is too short to do it for works of this caliber.

The anime Wallbanger page is long...

Also, the diversity in the anime fandom means that even pretty bad series can have a certain following. Well, not Cosprayers/Mars of Destruction. These are the buttmonkeys of everyone.

Generally, if you are to find anime that's not just bad, but horrible you are going to have to dig deeper. As in out of the country.

This website, is of western origin, and likewise, has a userbase that is mostly western and uses western languages like English, French, Spanish, Italian, and German. Almost all of the anime we have seen were anime that western or eastern users with good western communications took considerable effort to import and show to western audiences. There is a ton of anime available to watch in the west, but that ton is just a fraction of the total anime ever made, and we're not even finished with the stuff we embarked on to watch in the first place. That 'fraction' I am talking about mostly consists of decent titles that people took great ordeals in localizing and downloading because they really wanted to show that anime.

Most of the numerous horrible works in other media that are listed on this site, are primarily from the western half of the world, because this site is from the western half of the world, and and I cast an estimate that most of the horrible stuff listed here is barely even interesting because they fail at even garnering interest. For instance, while the film Violent Shit made for a good episode of Brad Jones, I'm certain that is all it will ever amount to; a bad and extremely obscure German slasher film series that could easily be mistaken as, and arguably is, a home video project, a film that never amounted to anything other than being made.

To put it in perspective, a Japanese tourist would easily overlook that film because so many other films in the western market are far interesting and fascinating, thus they catch one's attention, and this includes other bad titles.

In short, I'm pretty sure if it exists, a Japanese Tvtropes probably would have a bigger catalogue of SBIH anime, as well as horrible Japanese sitcoms, Japanese dramas, Japanese movies, and Japanese radio dramas that most of the west has never heard of, as well as a relatively small "western animation" section.

That's a good point. We should probably ask bilingual tropers to get digging in all media.

Doesn't look like it.

But Sage being an ironic fan might be.

I mean did anyone see his review of this OVA? Sage has been much harsher on Grave of the Fireflies and Neon Genesis Evangelion than he ever was with Makai Tensho.

The parameters for "So Bad it's horrible" dictate that the work must have zero fans in addition to not being a success in the market. It has to fail to satisfy even a niche audience. This is why cult films don't apply, because they are at least liked. Sage may have classified it as a bad anime, and made some pot shots at it with takes where the anime puts him in a coma numerous times because of it's sheer insanity, but the ultimate point of all that is that Sage found the anime pretty awesome despite the anime physically harming him.

I know however, that "fans" of works can be negated, allowing them to qualify for SSBIH. Usually being that the "fans" are extremely immature and/or delusional. For instance, FATAL, the ungodly infamous tabletop RPG had fans, they were called "FATA Lites", and according to rpg.net users, they bombarded their forums with boasts about how their "rpg kicked every rpg's ass", and rpg.net regulars described them as possessing the intellectual capacity of "scrotum lint", and speculated that they were all alternate accounts of the game's creator. Sonichu has exactly one ecstatic fan, the creator himself. Billy the Heretic, the infamous nazi comic has Nazi fans and we don't give a crap about the opinions of Those Wacky Nazis. Armond White is Armond White and his opinions are disregarded altogether. These so called fans are either creators of said works or generally don't have good reasons for liking what they like, and some are just gadflys by principle, going against the grain for the sake of going against the grain and nothing else.

While Sage has derided anime that many anime buffs, including myself found classic, like Grave of the Fireflies, Akira, and NGE, Sage is not a bad critic. Sage has definitely seen his fair share of anime and can intricately point out what he liked and did not like in any given work, and when he does, it is something objective, something in the work that everybody can see, and that is what qualifies one to be a media critic.

Holy shot, Maddox is still relevant?

You betcha Maddox is still relevant,

http://maddox.xmission.com/

He's even got a webshow,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI2zLhvLOG0

...and he is still only updates once in blue moon.

Response to Bennett the Sage's Review: http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/blogs/latest/entry/response-to-sages-doomed-megalopolis-review-1

Oh, and this too: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0337283/faq?ref_=tt_faq_sm

I agree that the anime has a lot of problems, but I do contest the notion that the "rape as B plot" is the worst aspect of the show. First of all, you could even argue that this criticism is irrelevant since the rape directly affects the main plot. For instance, the interactions of the characters are driven by that big question that runs throughout the anime about "Who is Yukiko's real father?" Kato's plans are foiled in the later episodes precisely because Yoichiro did assault his sister. For example, Kato couldn't arouse Masakado's spirit with Yukiko because she wasn't really his daughter. He also couldn't directly possess Yukiko in the later episodes because of the same reason. Thus, the rape ties directly into the main story and guides it similar to the way the rape subplot in WATCHMEN guides the actions of the characters in the last part of its story. So it's not a dismissible B-plot. It ties into the main story and the despicable brother gets beaten up for his behavior (in the other adaptations, we see later on in the story he actually gets murdered by his daughter's boyfriend no less...but the anime ends before that point in the story).

Second of all, I find this criticism a little hypocritical since many of these same anime fans (including Bennett) seem to be totally okay (or overlook) the presence of sexual molestation and sexual abuse in shows like NINJA SCROLL and WICKED CITY and even BERSERK. Sometimes I wonder if anime fans even understand the intensity of the stuff they're watching in the first place. When it comes to adult anime, excess is the name of the game and unfortunately that's the market DOOMED MEGALOPOLIS was trying to appeal to. Remember: WICKED CITY, NINJA SCROLL, OVERFIEND, etc: THESE were the type of anime that DOOMED MEGALOPOLIS was competing with, not modern sanitized teen-focused anime. Accusing DOOMED MEGALOPOLIS of being repulsive because "it has rape as B-plot" makes little sense when judged in the context of the aforementioned market (btw, I didn't see the original OVERFIEND in the "Horrible Anime" list at all, and I dare say that the content in there is far more amoral than anything in DOOMED MEGALOPOLIS). In WICKED CITY, the heroine gets gang raped repeatedly, which is horrible. However the rest of the narrative shows her indifferent to the experience like it's no big deal and she can get on with life fine. There are no longstanding consequences. You could just as well remove the rape scenes and it would hardly affect the story at all. Same with NINJA SCROLL. In DOOMED MEGALOPOLIS, the main female lead gets raped by her brother and suffers the emotional trauma and tragedy that comes with that experience. She loses her mind and her plight and suffering affects the interactions of the characters around her. Her life is ruined and her family's reputation is completely destroyed. What's more insensitive, to throw in loads of gratuitous sex and then forget about it or dwell on the horror and the consequences of the act? I would say the former. To simply throw in random acts of sexual violation ala the way WICKED CITY does and avoiding any discussion of the consequences is more immature I think than trying to wrap a serious subplot around it.

Finally, the rape subplot is accurate to the story of the original novel Teito Monogatari, which (for those who don't know) was the same work which won the 1987 Nihon SF Taisho Award (comparable to the West's Nebula Grand Prize; the same sci-fi award Hideaki Anno's EVA won) and sold over 5 million copies in Japan alone. If the presence of a rape subplot was really as "horrible" as Bennett and his fans make it out to be, then I highly doubt the original work would have attracted the attention it did. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teito_Monogatari

I was thinking about contending with the criticism about the anime not having any "likable characters", but I'll refrain. I actually am sympathetic to that sentiment. The problem with the anime is that it pushes unlikable characters like Yoichiro and Kato to the fore of the story and plays down some of the actions of the good guys. However if you've seen/read other versions of the story, you'll know that there are actually a lot of likable characters in the narrative such as Eichii Shibusawa, Hirai, Koda Rohan, Shigemaru Kuroda, Torahiko Terada, and Keiko. Koda Rohan and Keiko especially are admirable characters with noble qualities. You can read a biography of historical Koda Rohan here:

books.google.com/books?isbn=0805762728

Admittedly this is the historical character, but given that the character in TEITO MONOGATARI was directly based on this character, you can see as an extension. Similarly Hirai was loosely based on classic descriptions of Abe no Seimei: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abe_no_Seimei

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasumasa_Hirai

The problem is these characters aren't around enough in the anime to get to know them very well.

I'm also going to contest it for a few more reasons:

1. Back when Sage did his review of it a few years ago, it had a rating on IMDB of over 7.0. Even now it has a rating of 6.4. If it were worthy of being on So Bad It's Horrible, wouldn't it have to be way lower than that? Like under 3.0?

2. I see a lot of people on places like You Tube and such about how they loved this anime. Again, if it was supposed to be on here, wouldn't it not have any fans at all? One of the important notes on the main page says it has to fail to appeal to even a specific niche, which it apparently did.

3. I hate to sound like I'm attacking the editor here, but the entry doesn't give a very good description of WHY it's So Bad It's Horrible. It sounds more like a very brief summary of Sage's review, and the important notes say we're definitely not supposed to parrot a Caustic Critic.

I agree that Doomed Megalopolis has its problems, but I don't think it's qualified at all to be put here.

I've been a huge fan of Doomed Megalopolis since 2002 and quite frankly, 99.9% of the criticism I find against this anime makes me grind my teeth.

Among the many criticisms I find maddening are the allegations against this anime being very misogynistic, especially considering that there's anime like High School of the Dead that have a far more insulting presentation of women than DM does, yet people are eating it up like hotcakes. It also doesn't help that it's criticized for being too violent as well, yet even more anime titles like Elfen Lied and Hellsing Ultimate heavily outdo DM in the gore department, yet are lauded as some of the greatest things in the anime genre. In fact, Elfen Lied, High School of the Dead, and Hellsing Ultimate are a cavalcade of extremely inconsistent tones, horrible story and character development, and especially in the case of Elfen Lied, sanctimonious messages about the human condition that look as if they were written by a sixth grader. I'm not joking, I'd rather listen to my alarm clock's extremely grating sound for 8 hours in a row than watch any of these anime titles ever again.

What ultimately gets my goat on criticism against DM is the fact that so many anime fans pride themselves in loving Japanese culture as a whole, but when presented an opportunity to watch an anime like DM that's heavily rooted in Japanese mysticism and history, they don't bother reading up about the culture they claim to love and just dismiss Doomed Megalopolis as "stupid." I was only 14 when I first saw this anime, and even with my barren knowledge of Japanese history and culture at the time, I still had enough mental strength to comprehend that Japan's culture is different from the West and was able to appreciate DM strictly on its own terms.

Between the steady tailspin in anime in recent years and the obnoxious mentalities of many anime fans, I've abandoned the anime genre and do what I can to avoid most anime fans.

Plus again, Maddox loves this anime, at least volume 1, and Maddox is a well respected internet celebrity, writing satirical articles with hidden themes of moral and consumer guidance. Maddox always encouraged people to try new things, watch different and more challenging movies, listen to more complex and interesting music, try out new foods that aren't greasy fried fast food bullcrap, learn about other cultures, go to other countries, get into mathematics and programing, put more emphasis on academia, and not to set bad examples by being a social parasite or a trendy know-nothing faker. He's more mature than what his interface, and his foul mouth may tell you.

But anyway, I enjoyed looking up about this anime, and finding out that it is based on a critically acclaimed novel that utilizes Japanese Shinto mythology in order to craft a deep story about Japan. Seeing all this, Sage's argument against this anime is really falling apart. If anything, the worst this anime did, was just either not being properly translated, or being condensed too much or a combination of the two.

Sage had a problem with the rapist character, because he was apparently one of the protagonists, but that character was not justified in his actions, as a matter of facts, his actions made him more despicable, we weren't supposed to be rooting for him all the way, plus he gets his comeuppance from his incest born daughter(maybe not the best way to resolve the issue, but issue resolved nontheless). Plus, this series is one with complicated Morality, ala Watchmen, Game of Thrones, and Legacy of Kain. The "Good Guys" aren't exactly all "good guys", what with the brother of the priestess being an incestual douchebag rapist, and the supposed Bad Guy, Yasunori Kato, is actually sympathetic is regards despite his evil demeanor, his black magic, and his desire to destroy Tokyo. Kato reasons for wanting to destroy Tokyo is because he was a decedent of the indigenous people of Japan who were wiped out by the Yamato Clan who laid the foundation for Tokyo. Since Kato is half Oni, he is able to live a long life span and possess dark powers. Kato wants to destroy Tokyo in order to avenge his people who were ruthlessly killed by the so called paragons of Truth and Justice that were the Yamato clan. Now that come to think about it, that ending where the priestess caresses Kato is probably the best possible ending because when you get down to it, Kato's the kind of character who needs a hug.

Rape as we know it, is the complete monster of crimes. As of which, it can't be played for comedy, at least not lighthearted high brow comedy, but it can be played for drama, it's just that using rape as drama too much can be seen as exploitative of the traumatic experience that is rape and the women who go through with it. Doing it this way too much has led people to call out writers for using this trope as quick, easy, and manipulative way to get tears flowing, pull heart strings, and justify roaring rampages of revenge.

Cutting and pasting this for now.

• Doomed Megalopolis, a four-episode horror OVA from 1991 based on the novel Teito Monogatari by Hiroshi Aramata. While Vol 1. can be considered a thrilling horror action romp, the rest is a horrible mess due to its confusing logic, lack of likable characters, several dumb and pointless scenes that add nothing to the plot, and a corny soundtrack.

The arguments for this series are starting to pile up and Sage's argument is not holding up as it used to do. Consider another anime salvation from the SBIH section, the search for horrible anime continues.

@creamy_sama: Thank you for the interest and time you dedicated to this topic!

I should also complement the point about Maddox by pointing out that DOOMED MEGALOPOLIS (the show, not the DVD) actually did have a fair amount of positive reception when it was rereleased in 2002. And this was (shockingly enough) for the mistranslated Streamline English dub, much to my surprise. Not even I would have been that gracious in my review:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/review/doomed-megalopolis/dvd

http://www.mania.com/doomed-megalopolis_article_74844.html

http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/blu-ray/30254/18-great-animated-films-unavailable-on-blu-ray

http://www.theanimereview.com/reviews/doomedmega.html

http://www.digitallyobsessed.com/displaylegacy.php?ID=4168

http://thehorrorhaunt.com/doomedmegalopolis.html

http://www.usaanime.us/Reviews/Doomed%20Megalopolis.htm

USA Anime's review even begins with: "Doomed Megalopolis is considered a classic amongst supernatural thrillers in anime, and it’s not hard to see why. It combines solid storytelling with high production values to create a very dark and dramatic story that mixes heavy doses of mysticism with historical fact. Those who can handle its graphic content and sometimes unsavory subject matter will find a viewing experience well worth the cost and time commitment." (!??)

I also encourage you to read this article as well (in which a scholar talks about the original novel and its themes). The whole chapter is "Oni and Japanese Identity" by Dr. Noriko T. Reider. The part about TEITO MONOGATARI begins on pg. 113. You can start there or read the whole essay to get a little more context about what she's discussing (essay begins on 104):

http://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1071&context=usupress_pubs

You're all the same person, aren't you?

Nope.

@voilodion

I guess Kuro Kokoro isn't very warm and friendly to my presence, and I don't blame the troper for it or hold it against the troper. When you unwittingly become a pawn in a grand scheme based around the disappearance of an infamous webcomic, naturally, you become a suspicious figure. I have no way to prove my innocence, except for one method...

@Kuro Kokoro

Check our IP addresses. Different IP addresses indicate different computers in different households at a given time.

@Creamy-Sama

Reading over the responses again, and I just wanted to quickly respond to this:

"Rape as we know it, is the complete monster of crimes. As of which, it can't be played for comedy, at least not lighthearted high brow comedy, but it can be played for drama, it's just that using rape as drama too much can be seen as exploitative of the traumatic experience that is rape and the women who go through with it. Doing it this way too much has led people to call out writers for using this trope as quick, easy, and manipulative way to get tears flowing, pull heart strings, and justify roaring rampages of revenge."

Agreed. But as I said before, I don't think emphasizing the tragic aspects of the act could somehow be more amoral than the way it's treated in provocative anime like WICKED CITY and LEGEND OF THE OVERFIEND, neither of which I saw on this list. That's what I was reacting against. How anyone could endorse or defend WICKED CITY but have unconditional contempt for DOOMED MEGALOPOLIS is just beyond me, and yet there are some anime fans out there who do. In the nasty world of "adult anime", sexual violence is actually one of the least of DOOMED MEGALOPOLIS' problems.

Well, now that I've made another comment, I should probably end it with a quote from another positive review of the anime:

"Doomed Megalopolis was made in the capable hands of anime creators like Ninja Scroll's Madhouse Studios and Metropolis' Rintaro. It moves quite well for such a large and long story, the character arcs are set up nicely with few dragging moments since there are little horror scares and sorcererific battles around every corner...considered one of the classic examples of anime, it still holds up after all these years." —http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/5100/doomed-megalopolis/

Sounds like this trope. Go right ahead.

OK

Does it really belong here though? I haven't actually watched it, but it has a 7.7 om IMDB

I thought it was pretty standard, sure, it's not the best, but as far as adaptions go. It's meh. Play the games. Also, I was REALLY surprised to see Tsukihime and Umineko.

Looking up reviews of the two, I can see that Tsukihime and Umineko were disappointing, but I haven't seen people collectively call them horrible.

Tsukihime has a 7.24 on MAL, 7.3 on IMDB, and 3.67/5 on Anime Planet. Reviews I've seen of it mostly express how it was just average, rather than awful. Umineko has 7.47 on MAL, 7 on IMDB, 3.86/5 on AP, and reviews that mostly hover around the 6 to 8 mark. The examples assertion that it was "hated by practically every fan" isn't one that I'm seeing at all.

I'm thinking they should go.

I've... never paid attention to how non-TYPE MOON fans received the Tsukihime anime, but I definitely remember the Umineko anime having a good amount of fans at the time. There were some heated arguments between casual watchers who came from watching the Higurashi anime and the guys who played the visual novels over whether or not it was good. It's just that it wasn't entertaining enough to the former group to be remembered, so the only people who talk about it now are the people who still go nuts over the visual novels and hated the shit out of the anime. I'd probably cut that.

1. Does this series have a fanbase? Or at the very least, does it have some people who moderately liked it who could at least give the series some good defense through rational thought and objective reasoning? 2. Does this series have a hatedom, a vast majority of critics panning it and almost every commoner either hating it or at least ignoring it? 3.Does the hate for this series far out number the love, in which case the "love" is non existent?

If you answered no, yes, and yes for those 3 questions, then add the entry.

"Enough about X, nobody likes X. Even if you think you like X, you don't"—Yahtzee, Confused Matthew, and Max Landis.

Also, Homophobia? In Japan? Yeeesh, and thought Japan was one of the few places safe for homosexuals due to its non-Abrahamic roots and low religiosity rate.

Imma yank it in a week if no one can defend its spot.

I wouldn't call a median rating of "so-so" positive, even relatively so. And it wasn't so much reviews as ratings But your point still stands.

hmm

The Pilot Candidate anime has a technically "decent" median average...

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=194

...And we both know that The Pilot Candidate anime definitely belongs here. The ratings, keep in mind, go up and down due to user votes, the system is put into place as soon as a show comes out.

Pilot Candidate had some potential, and there was at least some hype for it before it aired. It is one of Adult Swim's first launch titles for their Saturday anime block. If you had no idea what the show was going to be like, you'd probably pick it up too. I mean an Evangelion like show, easily available in a time where the network did not have the rights to Evangelion, with a seemingly complex plot, and a beautiful orchaestral soundtrack.

Welp, then time passed, none of the numerous plot holes were filled, and the Gecko ending happened, pissing everyone else, plus the Cgi battles were clumsy and very dated. Thus the show cemented it SBIH reputation.

Likewise, the same could be said for this show. Master Of Martial Hearts. Jesu Otaku even documented her viewing. It first started off as a shoddier ripoff of Ikki Tousen. A pantyshot clothes ripping catfight fighter. Nothing more. Plenty like it. Audience for it. A wanker audience, but a justified audience none the less("Durr hurr, but I gotta whack it to something!") But then, the show pulls off a horrific ending that completely kills the mood and comes out of nowhere, in a bizarre attempt to actually critique the guilty pleasure debauchery it reveled in, but ends up being more misogynistic then usual had the series just stuck to being softcore porn. Plus the theme song is pretty bad.

Again, the median rating might have influenced by people who voted to early before much of the plot was revealed. Or trolls or idiots.

If there is no decent fanbase or single fan with really good reasons that can defend this series, then I say Master of Martial Hearts should stay.

"might" is not a particularly good argument to justify something.

Actually, "might" could possibly justify something. After all, "might" indicates a likely possibility, and, as social scientists, media connoisseurs, critics, and watchdogs we should consider likely possibilities.

Also look what I dug up to further my point on Master of Martial Hearts:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/review/pilot-candidate

Now as you can see, an Anime News Network writer also gave Pilot Candidate a fairly positive review, just like with Master of Martial Hearts, and again, the positive feelings with the anime were ignited early during the shows run, like before you get in the middle of that series and find out that the plot is going nowhere, arcs just get dropped, plot holes start piling up, and then comes the part when the series just ends.

I say we contact both the writer of the Pilot Candidate review, and the writer of the Master of Martial Hearts review, and ask them what they think of those shows today. If they give out opinions defending the show with well reasoned and logical coherent opinions, then, we should ax the entries off the list. If they don't we can keep them.

I'd say go with it! Assuming that you are right about the character's dialogue. Howver, I notice at the end, the Smoker is going into a building that had like a sign with hours posted on it. Was that a self help center?

Regardless, the art and animation is pretty poor for an anime, although it is on par with a "decently animated" newgrounds entry if that makes sense. Assuming this production had a higher budget and more resources than a single animator with a wacom tablet, I'm certain this PSA would find nice home here.

I'm going to add this show next week if no one objects.

Go right ahead.

Could you explain why we would add that (I've never heard of it). If you've got a good argument than please present it.

It's generally considered to be the worst otome game adaptation ever.

a SBIH work has to apply to a whole series, not just a single episode.

Just be sure it doesn't have a fanbase to speak of. And be sure the professional reviewers don't consider this brilliant. If it has even one of those two, it doesn't belong, but I'm sure you know this already.

It doesn't. Most people have never heard of it, and the reviews I did see of it were bad.

Someone familiar with the series should add it.

I know we started this discussion a long time ago, but — what reasons, other than squick, are we listing this work for?

The entry says the plot is bad, makes no sense and is a wasted opportunity.

Transformers Kiss Players doesn't even have a page here, imo it is strange and disturbing enough to cause controversy but it isn't that objectively bad, it at leasts means the brilliant Alternators/Binaltech toyline has a story to go with it. Would the noseriouslyitisnotagagdub Star TV/RTM dub of Transformers Headmasters be here or so bad it is horrible? It does bring up some hilariously bad moments llike the infamous "Fortress Maximus has cum himself" line.

I'm inclined to agree. Kiss Players is objectively offensive and holds no value to most people, but I think it's because, for the most part, it's exceedingly niche and straight up offensive to western markets. I've never heard Kiss Players called objectively bad in its own right. I'd heard it called offensive, creepy, insulting to existing characters, but any actual criticisms of the actual manga get rather drowned out by that.

The current entry follows that formula as well. Most of the entry is talking about the weird stuff in it, but not why it's actually bad.

Is there at least a sufficiently large group of fans who like it? If so, then it doesn't qualify.

Seconded.

As far as I'm concerned, yeah. It would definetly work. And I hope others see that video so they could see your point and report on it.

Same question I was about to ask...

About that, why DO people keep adding and removing it.

In my opinion this one really does belong here, because the only people that seem to disagree with it's entry are the "I remember seeing this on the Fox Box" people.

The anime fails at being a good monster anime. It was poorly animated, badly written (even the non-4-Kids version was mediocre at best), and the overall character designs are ripped directly from your nightmares.

And the theme song... Goddamn that terrible theme song.

The anime was critically panned and was known for being one of the shows that made the Fox Box fail as hard as it did.

I will note that on the page itself, it's described as a Cult Classic.

Okay, that probably disqualifies it. You can't have a Cult Classic without a cult.

If the whole thing really is there, and if others agree with that assessment, then I see no reason why we can't reinstate the entry. Incomprehensibility is common in Horrible works.

No. There's already Arc Fatigue for this.

The reason given was "oh man yoshinori kanada's work sure is horrible". Which doesn't really makes sense as he only dealt with the animation and character design.

he was the animation director, character designer and did TONS of key animation for it. it was extremely influential to many, many young animators of its time and stuff like this gave birth to such things as Gurren Lagann and Dead Leaves. it's technically not all "his" work but he had a lot to do with the way it looked

a lot of other talented key animators were involved with it, including Hideaki Anno

not really worthy of this list if only for its amazing visuals. the only reason nobody aside from me cared enough to remove it up to this point is because it's so obscure. whoever added it didn't even give many reasons for loathing it so much - robots with silly looking designs, and a weapon capable of destroying *planets*? it's so over the top, it's almost like I'm watching... an anime!

Oh, fair enough. Though part of the entry was mostly about the Macekre'd dub (even if it do mention the original OVA is bad).

the entire entry is about the show itself, they never really mention the dub being bad (just that they shouldn't have bothered

you could list Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann and say the same thing. the characters are drawn differently by each animator and there is a galaxy-sized robot (which is silly and over the top), so it must be awful right?

also http://www.pelleas.net/aniTOP/index.php?p=235

this man is largely considered one of the most knowledgeable animation experts in Western anime fandom and he understands the significance and quality of this movie far better than the average TV Tropes user. he thinks this is a fantastic movie.

and you know what? so does Hiroyuki Imaishi, the man behind Gurren Lagann and Dead Leaves. the whole idea of Dead Leaves was to create a similar movie for a new generation.

Oh sorry, didn't know about that. It was put in there because of the bad (macekre) dub.

...no it wasn't, because nowhere in the original entry did they bash the dub itself, but merely pointed out that he shouldn't have bothered because the OVA was a horrid work to begin with.

I assume it was put in because Anime World Order and a bunch of other lame sites hated it, by people who haven't actually seen the damned thing themselves. the line about the sword "not being drawn the same" all the time does have some truth to it since consistency is not the point of this animation style, but the thing is clearly shown *changing its shape* every time the protagonist picks it up, sort of a way of showing that it's now "his" I assume.

Cut this and put it here for now, as the lower point looks like a contestation. Do not restore the "To be fair" part if you restore the entry.

• The Cosmopolitan Prayers, or as it's also known, Cosprayer. Not Cosplayer, but Cosprayer. The broken Engrish in the title is the least of the anime's problems. There are the incredibly idiotic, inconsistent, one dimensional characters: the girl who loves the male lead also makes out with the main (female) protagonist, and the other girl also likes the guy. Why? Because! There is random unnecessary fanservice. There are no transitions to speak of: one minute, everyone is chained up in a cave; the next, they're on a pier fighting with tennis rackets. That was a power upgrade, by the way. And it has a plot that must have been thrown together between rounds. To add insult to injury, there are TWO Spin-Off series. The whole thing was made by M.O.E., or Masters of Entertainment. Right.
  • Although to be fair, the two spinoff series, Hit wo Nerae! and Love Love? pretty much confirm that Cosprayers is a fictional television series. That pretty much makes the aspects of Cosprayers that make it So Bad Its Horrible make a lot more sense.

Oh, sorry. I didn't know it was deleted. I put this back a few days ago cause it seems to fit the criteria. Thanks for the tip. ^__^

It's okay — there was no reason given for deleting Cosprayer the first time. As long as it stayed that way, replacing it was the right thing to do. It might still be, but — well, the justification is arguing that the Horrible parts make sense in context, which is highly improbable.

That seems like a bizarre justification- having a So Bad Its Horrible show-in-a-show is a common version of Stylistic Suck- but doing that as a retcon for a series is more like a Parody Retcon.

What I was trying to say that even though Cosprayers was a real anime with So Bad Its Horrible elements, the fact that Hit wo Nerae! and Love Love? portrayed Cosprayers as a fictional series within both series made the So Bad Its Horrible elements of Cosprayers make sense.

And even though this isn't related, I wanted to say this anyways: in Love Love? it is said that only ONE person knows the identity of the writer for Cosprayers, excluding the writer himself. The writer's identity must've been kept a secret so he wouldn't be blamed for the show's status.

Okay. Then we can reinstate Cosprayers itself, maybe — Recursive Canon doesn't fix the original work.

Yes, but it justifies it.

How? Having your apparently Horrible series be a Horrible fictional series in its sequels — why would that change its eligibility? If it had always been a Show Within a Show, that would be one thing — but this was real before it was fictional.

It depend if it was first a bad Show Within a Show made real for the lulz, or just something really bad being Parody Retconed.

It was real before it was a Show Within a Show. The other two series listed in the justification are Spinoffs from it.

It was reinstated, and I was asked to read the link...

But the link is wrong! There's nothing there at all! How can I get more info from a deadlink?

I put the deadlink in Wayback Machine, but the images are broken. Gah.

Someone "fixed" the link back to the original non-existent address. Fortunately, I did read the review for Bobby's In Deep in the meantime. Pity no pictures — the plot did sound bad, but it appears that the pix had info in them.

Anyone else review that one? It's apparently a major studio's Old Shame, so someone should have.

Ah, I see someone found another review. And, since the Anime News Network is a Caustic Critic, the anime isn't Horrible. Thanks! <smiles>

For what it's worth, the original version of Energon (Super-Link) is more seen as mediocre, with most of the hate being because of the awful translation.

Eh, I can't speak for the guy who removed it but it has a positive (as in, "it's stupid but it's fun") review on this site (Texto nly shows up in Fifefox).

And two different defenses posted under the original entry here, one with video clip. And a note that Daoh inspired a character in a non-Horrible videogame. The evidence was starting to go against. (No, I didn't remove it, but I was considering it.)

Hmmm... It's best to explain why you put a new work in or take a work out...

That particular description isn't descriptive enough. Remember, squick alone isn't a reason for listing an item. And if it's really a fanfic, then it should be listed on that page if it qualifies, and there might be other reasons why it was canceled. (Perhaps the people who own the license for Pokemon thingies disapprove of high-profile lemon fic, for example.)

Hmmm... It's best to explain why you put a new work in or take a work out...

That particular description isn't descriptive enough. Remember, squick alone isn't a reason for listing an item. And if it's really a fanfic, then it should be listed on that page if it qualifies, and there might be other reasons why it was canceled. (Perhaps the people who own the license for Pokemon thingies disapprove of high-profile lemon fic, for example.)

That is ridiculous Toshiro Ono basically gave Jessie large breasts, and Misty a revealing bathing suit and that's it for fanservice and the rest was fine. The art is really good, and I have never heard it getting canceled. It was fairly short for manga, but not every manga is going to be 40 volume long behemoth.

For what it's worth, the Transformers Wiki (whch has a very extensive coverage of the series) and most fans I've seen deffinately consider it to be SBIH.

I'm not convinced that "Someone listed it on SO Bad It,s Good!" should be the only reason to remove something. The line between "stuff so bad it makes you laugh" and "stuff so bad it makes you cringe" can be pretty thin.

Thank you. I'll edit that other entry.