How sweet it is
Wick check looks good. Opened.
she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report
This is going to be so much fun.
Yeah it should be specific in that it is not just about a crapsack world but something (possible alternate timeline) that would happen due to circumstances of the heroes' existence/actions.
Description and laconic are clear about the trope's use. The trope name seems to be the problem. Rename? The page quote is also ambiguous.
On the topic of trope names: Bad Present wants to be related but hardly is so. If I understand correctly, the present version of Bad Future is It's a Wonderful Plot. Hence it's not a bad move to break the name cloning here by renaming Bad Future to something else. Also, Bad Present seems to be using a misleading definition for Bad Future.
edited 16th Apr '18 9:02:56 AM by eroock
How sweet it is
I'll throw in Bad Alternate Future as a name idea.
she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
5: I'm not really a fan of sticking "alternate future" as part of the title, since it makes it seem as less of an issue. "Alternate future" might imply that it is caused by some timeline divergence, when our trope is the opposite.
1: I might as well give my input on the questions asked. The foundation of the trope, as given, is "character sees the future's gone to hell and tries to fix it." We shouldn't stretch too far from that definition.
- If they try to change the future but it proves immutable, is it an example then?
- Yes. This trope is primarily about the existence of the "bad" timeline/future and the characters' attempts to change it. Whether or not they succeed shouldn't matter. This also means that this trope is not disqualified by the presence of a Stable Time Loop unless the characters know of the loop.
- Does that mean examples have to wait until the work is concluded to say if it's an example?
- This is why I answered question 1 with "yes." If we were going with this, this trope can not be applied to ongoing series, despite not being an Ending Trope.
- Does it need actual time travel/visions, or is imagining one sufficient?
- I'd say merely imagining a bad future is not enough to count, unless there's another factor involved, e.g. visions/psychic weirdness.
- And do multiple endings count if they are not reversed by in-universe means?
- Once again, this is not an Ending Trope.
How sweet it is
Hmmm. In that case, any other ideas? Just thought of Bad Preventable Future; is that any better?
she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report
I don't think a rename is necessary. A lot of the misuse seems to be due to the Crapsack Future redirect.
It doesn't have to be preventable or alternate from my understanding, I can think of more than a few that are not.
Travel To A Crapsack Future or Travel To A Bad Future maybe?
edited 17th Apr '18 8:48:23 AM by Memers
That's correct, the trope is about seeing a bad future and attempting to fix it. Whether it's preventable and/or alternate doesn't matter from a narrative perspective.
I don’t think the ‘fix it’ is real important as well since the act of visiting it in the first place changes it, in the case of say Star Trek TNG All Good Things no attempt to change it but it still got worse despite still hitting all the big plot points.
edited 17th Apr '18 9:51:57 PM by Memers
Clock is set.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
I support a rename. Bad Timeline? Doomed Timeline?
"It's just a show; I should really just relax"
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
The Wick Check does not seem conclusive to me:
- The ratio of "unknown" to "correct" is more than 1:2 (there is more than one "unsure" for every two "correct")
- How to Do a Wick Check instructs that we check the larger of "square root of the wicks" or "50". Since I doubt 1500 wicks have been added in a couple of months, not enough wicks were checked to provide proper statistical evidence (15 more should have been provided).
I'd like to suggest a purge of all "unclear" wicks (in addition to "misuse"). Examples should mention
- What the bad future was like
- How the characters learned about the bad future (I'm okay with visions/prophesy)
- what the characters plan to do to avert said future.
- What the good future was like
- How the characters learned about the good future (I'm okay with visions/prophesy)
- what the characters plan to do to ensure said future.
I'm advocating a purge of "unclear" wicks because if the Wick Check from the OP holds (50% of wicks are correct), then we would be left with more than 2000 wicks, and Wick labels that a Legendary Trope in terms of health. Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Resetting clock.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
How sweet it is
New clock expired; closing.
she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report
This ATT
brought up a misuse of Bad Future. It is used as any crapsack future, but the trope is about said future being an alternate future within its own continuity that's preventable, usually with the heroes attempting to prevent it.
If they try to change the future but it proves immutable, is it an example then? Does that mean examples have to wait until the work is concluded to say if it's an example? Does it need actual time travel/visions, or is imagining one sufficient? And do multiple endings count if they are not reversed by in-universe means?
Wick check for it and its redirect Crapsack Future:
That's 25 correct, 9 misuse, and 16 unsure. Does this need fixing and how?
edited 13th Apr '18 3:24:22 PM by Ferot_Dreadnaught