Cleaning up troping real life musicians on Music/ pages.

As a follow up to this ATT topic, I'm making a page for the gradual clean up of the pages in the Music/ pages that rather than troping a band or artist's music, do a lot of (often creepily gushily) troping of the band or artist himself.

To this end I've begun trimming the pages from CharacterSheets.Music (discussion here), adding the character sheets that only trope the people to the cutlist.

But a lot of their main pages still contain tropes about the real life people, which is a problem. Some will be easier to clean up, like Music.{{2PM}} which conveniently has a folder that can be cut. Others, like Music.Disturbed has bad examples littered in with the regular ones about their music, which is harder.

I suggest the first place to begin is the pages I cut from CharacterSheets.Music. The discussion has a list of all the cut pages. But eventually I suspect we'll have to eventually check out pretty much every page in the Music/ namespace to be sure. At the very least, everything in Korean Pop Music and Japanese Pop Music will need a thorough inspection since they seem to attract a lot of the real life troping.

edited 3rd Nov '17 5:51:28 AM by Larkmarn

Thanks for making this topic — it is very much needed.

My humble contribution: I took an axe to Music.Kurt Cobain. Personally I would also remove the suicide prevention note, but I wanted to ask for more opinions first.

Several examples of troping Music.Sting on his page, which included a Sex God entry on the Trivia page that I axed a month and a half back. I haven't dealt with the rest, but I thought you should know.

edited 8th Nov '17 8:07:37 PM by jameygamer

So the Cut request for Characters.Twice was declined because the cutmaster said "Just want to have this clarified: The personae of the band members have no relevance to their music and/or they are not what is being troped here?"

Could I get a second opinion on the page because while some of the examples are technically from concerts or videos, even those seem more like ascribing tropes to fit their perceived appearances (like say, Team Mom on the first one, calling a girl the Team Mom because she caught a teammate who fell off a stage). Or the only other trope for the same girl is blatantly troping her personality as determined from interviews which is no good.

edited 10th Nov '17 1:53:42 PM by Larkmarn

This was noted in Ho Yay Cleanup but what should be done about the Ho Yay page for music? Is it kosher?

Megadeth has a folder titled "Musician Tropes".

The first section of HoYay.Music needs a massive, massive pruning. At a glance, the only ones that can stay are a handful of the Gorillaz examples.

I love it when they make it easy. Please cut those.

edited 13th Nov '17 7:12:01 AM by Larkmarn

Cut most of the musician tropes from Megadeth, though some of them seemed OK so I moved them to the misc. section:

• I Am the Band
• Monster Mash
• Revolving Door Band
• "Sesame Street" Cred
• Start My Own

Cleaned up Music.NCT along with Music.Kanye West and its subpages.

Transsexual doesn't allow real life examples but the Music section discusses the singers being trans. Would it be okay to remove those examples?

edited 21st Nov '17 7:04:04 PM by Pichu-kun

Yes.

Please do. That's a... not even stealth real life example.

I know they are all under the musician umbrella, but there is a difference between idols and musicians, so I want to make an argument on not cutting idol character pages. Some idols might be singers, or rappers which makes them musicians, but there are roles idols play they puts them outside the realm of music.

They have roles like "visual", which is basically the one considered the best looking of the group, thus their main financial source via modeling because idols make jack from music sales. The role of the "visual" is completely unheard of among musicians because it has nothing to do with music and all to do with appearance, and it is different from Face Of The Band. The Visual and Face Of The Band might overlap, but they are fundamentally different. For example in Oh My Girl, Jiho is the visual, but Yooa is the face. There are also roles like "eldest", "youngest" which are actual roles instead of observations based on their age.

That, and the main appeal of idols is not the music, is the idols themselves, their stage personas, which makes character sheets fundamental for them, more so than their discography, more than their musical skills. It's primarily about their persona. All the other skills, talents, performances, visuals are optional and are often a reason for fans to brag, but not a requirement per se.

This was pretty much exemplified with Produce 101, where 101 contestants competed against each other to be part of an 11 member group. The most talented did not necessarily win, just the most popular ones. They had a large fandom before they debuted with a song.

The interaction with fans is also much bigger with idols. Vapp is used for idols to communicate with their fans whenever they want. Vapp is like a combination of Discord and Twitch. This kind of interaction does not exists with musicians, they might tweet to fans often, but they are not required to. Fan interaction is optional for musicians, mandatory for idols, because their entire role revolves under being a character who interacts with fans.

edited 1st Dec '17 1:00:12 PM by everlasting

Yeah, it's okay to trope musicians' stage personas, just not their personal lives.

Same with Reality TV, although, in both cases, it can be hard to tell which tropes are which: I wanted to clean up Spice Girls, but got stuck for that reason.

edited 25th Dec '17 9:56:50 PM by Lymantria

Cleaning up Music.Baby Metal page.

About those idols and stage personas: Yeah, these are ok in my book, BUT — the example has to have a proper, well-explained context even to non-fans and to people who might have never heard of them.

Saying that a metal singer who is a teenage girl is Badass Adorable and Child Prodigy because she was a child model and answers "profoundly" on interviews.... that is not gonna fly methinks.

Ah, hello, I've been fixing the Music.Baby Metal page per your feedback

Actually I'm a bit puzzled why Characters.AKB 48 was cut, since from what I see in archive.org, aside from listing their birthdays and birthplaces and some questionable entries like Breast Enlargement, all the entries are based on their public personas. Characters.Sakura Gakuin is similar to that one, and although it's retained for now, I'd like to make sure it doesn't contain anything that crosses the line.

edited 16th Jan '18 10:05:08 AM by petewarrior

Music.Michael Jackson needs a massive pruning. Again. This has happened before at least twice.

Ditto YMMV.Michael Jackson, of course.

EDIT: Took a massive chainsaw to the Music/ page.

edited 1st Feb '18 7:34:09 AM by Larkmarn

The White Stripes has a problem with this, as well as with ZC Es.

AKB48 has a lot of examples on the YMMV page that seem off (and a lot that aren't even YMMV tropes.)

Ted Nugent seems to be more about his personal views than his music. The last paragraph of his description is just a Long List of his political views including a couple of potholes to NRLEP tropes. As for the tropes, I see Gun Nut, Irony, Jerkass, Manly Men Can Hunt, Real Men Eat Meat, Sex, Drugs, and Rock & Roll, and Underestimating Badassery that seem to be about him specifically.

Hello! Project, as well as its subpages and YMMV, has a lot of real-life troping (also gushing), seeming more about the idol industry than the actual music. Most of the trope entries are about individual girls.

Edited by lalalei2001 on Sep 4th 2019 at 12:01:29 PM

Emerson, Lake & Palmer talks a lot about their hatedom and the tragedies of 2016.

The moments subpages for f(x), especially Tear Jerker, need cleanup or axing.

There is not a single entry about their music or songs being sad or making their audience sad. It deserves to be cutlisted.

Done. What about the Funny and Heartwarming pages?