Found this at Fire Emblem Heroes and deleted it because it looked like misuse to me, but I'm not entirely sure and want to bring it up just in case.

• Legendary Hero banners. On one hand, the fact that they remove all but the specific 5*'s means that players at the very least will get unique or special heroes that are rare or highly sought after for skills or use, such as seasonal units or rare to get normally, plus the addition of the new Legendary Hero means the player can get a special variant hero that can help players create special teams based around the legendary elemental effect, so many people find them to be the best way to spend orbs and often will save up for them. On the other hand, the lack of a 5* pool of larger size means that the pool to pull from is smaller, meaning the increase percentage rate to get a new 5* is debatably worse than a normal banner, causing many to waste time and money pulling and getting nothing. It doesn't help that, with the exception of Fjorm and Legendary Ike, you cannot get the Legendary Heroes without pulling. At the end of the day, the debate focuses on if the banners are fair to players, or a bait for money that are not worth investing in.

To trope, or not to trope...that is the question.

As the person who put it up, I argue its a fine point, though I would also like to point out that removing it before discussing it, when it wasn't a clear misuse, would of been better to wait for. Also YMMV is opinions, and as long as the entry is valid for time and is signs of a split, it is fine.

The point was that Legendary Banners have a polarizing view because the fact you have one new legendary unit, in a sea of other rare units, with a deceptively high 9% that is offset by having all but a few 5 star units left, is something people have expressed frustrations, and love for. And yes, I might have mixed feelings about it, but it is something people would also feel the same way about, these banners can often be devise because these banners can be a welcome addition, or a frustration.

Muramasa got.

I play Fire Emblem Heroes as well. I can vouch for that.

A cruel, sick joke is still a joke, and sometimes all you can do is laugh.

Yeah, it was fine. Sorry about that. I jumped the gun. (Heck, I even realized that seconds after I made that edit). I did rewrite it a little upon readding it, though, to make it sound a little less like one person's opinion.

I really shouldn't edit the wiki unless I 100% know what I'm doing.

edited 8th Jun '18 9:15:04 AM by katethegr8

To trope, or not to trope...that is the question.

You're fine! I was trying to make it seem as much as a 2 sided debate, with some frustrations over the last one being present. Seriously, 10.50% rate and I got Fjorm.

Muramasa got.

I removed this entry off of YMMV.The Legend Of Zelda Four Swords because there isn't honestly a broken base surrounding this issue:

• Broken Base: Princess Zelda, or more specifically Princess Zelda's design. It's quite unpopular and rarely gets much mention by fans, nevermind fanart. Many consider it an ugly design or at best Ugly Cute. Despite this, she does have her fans who like her design. The manga adaptation of the sequel didn't even bother to use the design, instead opting for something more similar to her Wind Waker design.

I have a question about Smash Bros. here. If a reveal happens that causes the six month rule to retroactively befall what was a valid BB, what do we do with it?

Relating to this, should Broken Base and Base-Breaking Character only apply to what's actually in the work as opposed to hypotheticals like the above example? (It's at the mercy of if it's done well, which seems too dicey and speculative even for YMMV.)

Reposting from the previous page:

Bringing up these examples from The Lovely Bones^note The page is divided between book and film examples, incase you're wondering why there are 2 Broken Base things

• Broken Base: Susie and Ruth switching places so that Ruth can see that the afterlife is real and Susie can have one night of passion with Ray. Some readers take issue with the tone shift the scene creates—pushing a little too far into the supernatural, and maybe too much emphasis on a romance that never really came to fruition—while others appreciate that there is at least some closure in such a heavy story. Many also debate over whether it was really okay for Susie to use Ruth's body to have sex with Ray. Ruth never consents to this, and it can make Susie come across as selfish and unable to let go of a boy she was never truly with. The fact that Susie chooses to use this reality-defying experience to visit Ray as opposed to her father or siblings also rubs some the wrong way.

• Broken Base:
  • The depiction of the in-between, which is drastically different from how it is in the book. Some fans dislike it for merely being Gratuitous Special Effects and accuse the CGI of taking attention away from the main plot - as well as the Mood Whiplash involved (from family mourning their daughter to Scenery Porn). Others feel that it's a perfectly reasonable depiction of how a teenage girl would imagine her heaven to be - not to mention that it's still ultimately shown to be empty and that Susie has to move on.
  • Let's also not forget Peter Jackson. On paper he seemed like the perfect choice for this property. He had history with making long movies based on books, weird horror in his early career, and even a movie about a very questionable subject matter. (All of which rather important to the book to retain it's character development, weird supernatural bits and its high use of sex including with teen characters) The actual movie he delivered had a lot of division. Some finding it strange how someone who seemed to fit the material so well would neuter so much of it. On the other hand some who weren't as big of fans of the book found his treatment to be a good way to transform it from page to screen.

The Project × Zone page has a few.

• More than a few people were that annoyed some of the cooler characters in the roster (Sanger Zonvolt and Heihachi Mishima, for example) are in the game as "Solo Units" rather than fully playable roles. The same thing happened when Brave New World announced Phoenix Wright, Maya Fey and Axel Stone.
• Some Street Fighter fans are upset at the fact that Seth is the villain representative for the series and not M. Bison. To be fair, Dictator is already dead at this point from the timeline of The 'Verse. Of course, he did come Back from the Dead in his game as well. However, if the opening of the sequel is any indication, M. Bison will be returning.
• There are some fans who think the plot of Project X Zone is simply an Excuse Plot to continue from Namco X Capcom, while others are content this Crossover between three different publishers (four, as of Brave New World) are even happening.
• Because Sonic the Hedgehog was excluded from the Sega line-up, a lot of people weren't exactly happy about it, given he is the company's mascot. However, the blue hedgehog has a sizeable Broken Base of its own; additionally, neither Klonoa (who was in Namco X Capcom but not here) nor many other animal-based/non-humanoid characters from other video games also appear in Project X Zone (the ones that do are largely villains); all this is before mentioning Sonic the Hedgehog is more popular in the West than it is in Japan.
  • Adding to the setting and nature of Project X Zone is the argument of whether or not its content is the reason why Sonic isn't included. An extension of this is the argument as to whether or not having a seemingly all-human roster on the heroes' side and not on the villains' side is intentional or just mere coincidence (the latter appears more likely to be the case).
• Both games borrow the Turn-Based Strategy formula of Namco X Capcom with the Action Commands button-inputting of Endless Frontier, but is this mechanically "good" as part of game-play or does it become a redundant chore after a while?
• Female characters in Brave New World, specifically Pai Chan, Ling Xiaoyu, BlackRose and Estelle, seemingly being replaced with male characters Kage-Maru, Kazuya Mishima, Haseo and Flynn Scifo (the latter was in the last game, but as a Solo Unit) was not well received. Fortunately, Xiaoyu, Pai and Estelle are in the sequel; the problem is the latter two are now Solo Units, giving certain players something to complain about.
• Were Kogoro/Mii victims of underdevelopment to their characters in the first game and deserve a return in the sequel to properly do so or were they shafted because of the possibility of them getting overshadowed (again) by more popular pairings like Reiji/Xiaomu and the rest of the roster? Given their absence in Project X Zone 2 and Reiji/Xiaomu ascending back to protagonists, indications point to the latter; additionally, there was a divide among players whether or not Kogoro/Mii were Flat Characters who had less plot relevance (despite being the main characters) as the party grew larger, unintentionally making them unappealing and unvaried compared to other pairings.
  • The fact that Brave New World shows the Koryuuji mansion late in the game yet the two don't make an appearance and are only mentioned in passing has peeved the Kogoro/Mii fans more.
• Regarding character inclusions and overall series representation in the sequel, a lot fans have become vocal about the amount of Spotlight-Stealing Squad Sakura Wars is getting compared to other franchises - notably, all four characters return as pairs, with two new bosses from their series entering on top of two returning Sakura Wars villains from the first game. By contrast, Street Fighter and Tekken have individually less representation, but since they're one of the most well-known series from Capcom and Namco Bandai respectively, some fans believe what they have is justified, yet naysayers will argue series' character count is in favor of Sakura Wars^note Individually, Street Fighter and Tekken have a total of five characters represented; Sakura Wars has eight. Some fans of Sakura Wars see this justified due the franchise being one of SEGA's juggernaut properties, having lived the glory days as the flagship franchise and Killer App for Saturn in Japan and has quite an expansive media and legacy stretching to present day. On the other hand a good number of players, mostly in the west, dislike Sakura Wars due in part of how generic the cast feels when compared to the other characters in the game as well as the fact that out of all the franchises, Sakura Wars overshadows more popular franchises.
• The inclusion of a Hot Springs Episode in Brave New World: although it's a completely optional cut-scene that's played for Fanservice, the fact it's only available on New Game Plus doesn't help its case. Is it truly worth viewing on a second play-through or not?

The one about Sakura Wars I feel is valid, the rest not so much.

Muramasa got.

It's been 6 days, any chance someone could take a look at the examples I brought up above

Too much spoiler tagging. Especially since Audience Reactions aren't part of the story and thus can't be spoilers, unless the entry spends much time (that is in most cases: too much) discussing the in-story factors. That example also sounds too weak.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Alright so I looked around and found that BrokenBase.Super Smash Bros has been discussed before, but it never really went anywhere. It's a shame too because that page is a dumpster fire. I've versed myself in the criteria for this trope and am willing to review each individual example on the basis that nobody else should have to suffer it.

If I go over all of the examples at once, I would never survive, so I'm willing to do these in batches. I'll include short summaries of each entry to save time. For this post, I'll go over all the stuff in the Characters folder.

An important note: Almost all of these entries refer to the fourth game in the series. If it's any other game, it will be directly specified.

To summarize: keep Jigglypuff, Zero Suit Samus, and Cloud. The rest have no place here. I'll try and go over the other folders if I have time.

Oh dang, you're right. Alright, she can go too. ZS Samus and Cloud are still a-okay, from what I've seen, they just need some rewrites.

edited 25th Jun '18 6:48:00 PM by DocSharp

In regards to Jigglypuff, is her existence still an issue since Ultimate's entire point is having every single character? Nobody seems to have a problem with it in there.

@ the Project X Zone post. I don't know anything about this game, but I agree. Everything except for maybe the Sakura Wars one sounds like it's just complaining.

edited 25th Jun '18 5:16:39 PM by mrbits

shouldn't they go under Base-Breaking Character instead?

Still waiting for someone to take a look at the bottom two examples, I brought to the thread x7

This is correct. They're just placed with the other Broken Base entries for simplicity's sake, which I'm on board with.

Neither of those seem to have the prerequisite longevity or viciousness. I'd say cut em.

Now, for part two of my quest to clean up BrokenBase.Super Smash Bros. This post will focus on the Use of Source Material, Over-Representation, and Mechanics folders.

To summarize: condense the Over-Representation folder into a single entry, rewrite the Advanced Techniques and Swordfighter entries, and gut the rest. I'll do the last two folders when I get the chance.

Edited by DocSharp on Jun 27th 2018 at 5:37:51 AM

Bringing up this example from Winnie the Pooh:

• Broken Base: The Disney franchise as a whole is this to fans of the original novels, the common Adaptation Displacement not helping either. Most common points of division are the Americanization of the British stories, and the changes in characterisation and storyline, with the Disney version most often downplaying the novel's sarcasm and non-sequitur humour for more sentimental stories (eg. in the novels, Eeyore and Rabbit were foolish, bitter Jerkasses, Disney's Eeyore is The Woobie while Rabbit is often a repentant Jerk with a Heart of Gold).

Sounds invalid to me, nothing but complaining. It might work as example of Fandom Rivalry though, but I'm not sure.

Edited by mrbits on Jun 29th 2018 at 11:38:15 AM

That starts by defining the hating part of the fanbase as an external fanbase. It's also patently not true, considering how many fans like both versions.

Check out my fanfiction!

And now, for the grand finale of BrokenBase.Super Smash Bros. This'll cover the final two folders, WiiU/3DS and Other:

In summary, expand the Ban Meta Knight entry, make a new one about the pro-scene, and get rid of everything else.

Final Conclusion

I think I may have gone insane reading this page. Overall it should look like this once I'm done with it:

---

Characters

• Entry for Zero Suit Samus.
• Entry for Cloud.

Other Stuff

• Entry for the competitive scene.
  • Sub-entry for advanced techniques.
  • Sub-entry for the attempted ban of Brawl Meta Knight.
• Entry for representation.
  • Sub-entry for perceived over/under-representation of certain franchises.
  • Sub-entry for Swordfighters.

And maybe keep that Brawl in the Family picture. I like it.

---

This is a massive change I'm proposing here and I dearly want some feedback before I do anything.

Do it. You've already suffered for our sins, don't shy away from what must be done. You're the hero we need.

I personally think Dark Pit and Lucina could count as Base Breaking Characters.

Lucina... I'll admit that I can see her, if only because she seems to get much more bashing and defending than other Fire Emblem characters. What makes you say Dark Pit, though? His fanbase was largely eclipsed by his hatedom, and even after the hate died down he doesn't seem to have too many fans. I don't think he clears the "equally large sides" rule.

Bringing up this example from Saving Mr. Banks:

• Broken Base: Between those who think it's a great story and those upset with the changes to history, especially the implication, intentional or not, of Travers approving of the film after seeing it, when she really went to her grave despising it. Given that the film was produced by Disney, one can get the impression that they're giving themselves a Historical Hero Upgrade. Inversely, Travers said in a 1977 interview that, "It's glamorous and it's a good film on its own level, but I don't think it is very like my books", suggesting the film depicting her accepting it might be valid. Lindsay Ellis discusses the idea in this video essay (she's a fan of the film).

That entry should be removed since it's about the film's overall reception and not an argument between fans of the film. Though it might fit better under They Changed It, Now It Sucks!.