Is this an example?

I apologize for being rude, but I'm seriously asking because I know we've covered this at least once before and, far as I know, morning has changed. My understanding is that, by their nature, any one shot form off media, like films more part of a series, can't have a Knight of Cerebus because the tone shift is planned in from moment one.

edited 21st Jun '18 2:14:24 PM by sgamer82

You meant Nothing has changed. Sorry couldnt resist.

Quickie posting + Auto correct does not grammar good make

YMMV.Digimon Adventure Tri

• Alternate Character Interpretation: So the 02 kids are missing. How much do the Adventure kids know, and how much do they care? Turns out they had no idea whatsoever until Daigo tells Taichi in his dying moments in Our Future. Also, the difficulty of accessing the Digital World compounded with the priority of stopping everyone else's plans upon getting there prevented them from having much a chance to investigate it on their own.

This was removed arguing that if it's confirmed one way or the other in the work, it's not an ACI anymore, but was added back. Thoughts?

I don't get how it's an ACI in the first place. There's no interpretation in the example, just a statement of something happening. Anyway, if the work confirms it, it's no longer "alternative" to the work, so it's a double whammy against.

Are the following examples being used correctly?:

From Shut In:

• Narm: The infamous raccoon jump scare scene.

From Depending on the Writer:

• Is a young dragon called a "hatchling", "wyrmling", or a "whelp"? That also doesn't stop works from using other names as well. For example, the book series Wings of Fire refers to non-adult dragons as "dragonets".

From Doctor Who S36 E4 "Knock Knock":

• Narm: Eliza can come across as this, due to her very unusual facial structure, her not entirely convincing makeup (or CGI), her narmtastic child-like dialogue, and her utterly bizarre voice.

I can't give opinions on Narm examples on the basis of whether they are factually true, but I can say that the first one you give has insufficient context. Frankly, Narm is such a vacuous trope that I'd be happy to can it.

The Depending on the Writer example should be deleted. It's a violation of Examples Are Not General, as it makes a vague pronouncement and then picks a specific example from a series. It also completely misstates the trope, as it's about variations within a series, not across all literature. Kill it with fire.

If a character is given Word of Gay with someone they have Homoerotic Subtext with, is it Homoerotic Subtext or just Ship Tease?

Ah, those tropes again. So, the work has Homoerotic Subtext that is later elevated to official status by Word of God: i.e., these characters are actually gay. I guess that would make the subtext a Ship Tease retroactively, but this interaction between story continuity and Word of God gets confusing.

It was still Homoerotic Subtext at the time, though, regardless of later Word of God? Couldn't the entry be made or reworded based on that?

That's a good option. Rewrite the entry to state that it was subtext at the time, but was later confirmed by Word of Gay. That satisfies the principle of the trope.

Going back a bit to #5666: Yes, I'd say that the Protection from Editors description needs to be modified to make it clear that self-published media cannot contain examples unless it actually employs editors.

Re Knight of Cerebus:

I agree that Knight of Cerebus needs to accompany Cerebus Syndrome, and that dark villains in a single-installment work would just be Vile Villain, Saccharine Show. However, that isn't super obvious from the description (though it is pretty explicit in the Laconic). I also notice that this trope, and to a lesser extent Cerebus Syndrome have a decent number of single-installment works listed. Maybe a cleanup effort is in order?

Possibly. I thought the definitions were clear: a fundamental tonal shift in an ongoing work that marks a transition from episodic, light-hearted fare to something darker and with greater continuity; and the character that acts as the cause of that shift.

Maybe put some kind of emphasis on "ongoing" or specification that single-installment works don't qualify?

edited 22nd Jun '18 10:37:28 AM by sgamer82

Unintentionally Unsympathetic examples from Pokémon:

• Though Mewtwo is indeed portrayed as a villain in Pokémon the First Movie: Mewtwo Strikes Back, it tries to mitigate by saying that he was driven to villainy by the revelation that he was an artificial being and is Desperately Looking for a Purpose in Life. However, his first violent act is blowing up the laboratory where he was created, killing all of the people there, after a conversation which lasts for no more than five minutes. His creator may be a bit of a jerk by rather callously brushing off his questions, but there is no indication that the scientists were actually mistreating Mewtwo or were going to do so in the future,^note The line about them going to lock Mewtwo in a cage and run experiments on him was added for the dub. thereby making him come off as a Manchild whining about how his life sucks because he never asked to be born.
  • A scene that was removed from the Western release shows Mewtwo talking with the other clone experiments via psychic connection, who then disappear one by one. Mewtwo eventually realizes that the clones are being discarded as failures. So he effectively had to watch his only friends die one by one.
• Pokémon: The Movie 2000: The Power of One has Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres become this thanks to Early-Installment Weirdness. When the movie premiered, the anime portrayed most Pokémon as just animals with superpowers, so it could be assumed that the legendary birds just didn't have the capability of higher thought and were acting on instinct. But as the show went on, more and more Pokémon, especially Legendaries, were given fully developed personalities and were implied to have human intelligence, retroactively making the birds so selfish that they're willing to wipe out all life on Earth just because they don't want to be around one another. Pretty much every Fan Fic that translates Pokémon Speak and references this movie has Lugia rip into them for their behavior.
• Kyurem may have had a point in Pokémon: Kyurem vs. The Sword of Justice when he attacks Keldeo as punishment for the latter's arrogance in challenging him when not remotely ready and lying about being a Sword of Justice, but that doesn't excuse Kyurem chasing him miles out of the arena and attacking a train and then a city populated entirely by people and Pokémon who don't have the slightest knowledge of their quarrel, just because Keldeo is there. He is never called out for this.

Mewtwo now violates Repair, Don't Respond, and they and Kyurem are villains because there actions are excessive and I don't belvice they're treated sympathetically for it (for Mewtwo, until they realize there wrongness and stop). Articuno, Zapdos, and Moltres are also not treaded sympathetically admitted to not being an example at the time, making it seem more like Continuity Drift or Franchise Original Sin than this? Thoughts on removing?

There's a dedicated Unintentionally Unsympathetic cleanup, but I still haven't heard back from my last inquiry a month ago.

edited 23rd Jun '18 1:54:49 PM by Ferot_Dreadnaught

naturalironist, thanks for making it clear. Lotso, Shen, and Varian from Tangled: The Series (as of Queen For A Day) are better examples of the trope Knight of Cerebus than Facilier as Lotso caused Cerebus Syndrome for the Toy Story franchise what Shen did for the Kung Fu Panda franchise and Varian did for the first season of Tangled.

edited 22nd Jun '18 1:21:52 PM by AdamElY

OMG, would you stop? You have this bizarre obsession with animals exhibiting tropes that has absolutely nothing to do with the purpose of our site. Cut it out or be banned.

edited 22nd Jun '18 1:26:02 PM by AdamElY

From Unnecessary Makeover:

• While most of the character redesigns for Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire were praised, this wasn't so for Team Magma Admin Tabitha. While his new personality wasn't criticized, the adaptions cause him to undergo Adaptational Ugliness, with the most glaring changes being slight hair growth, a significant weight gain despite being rather fit in the original adaption, ditching his traditional getup for a clunkier one that really makes his weight stand out, and his eyes being constantly shut. It doesn't help that this stands out like a sore thumb in comparison to the other admins, all of whom underwent Adaptational Attractiveness, and for the most part have a few remnants of their past designs intact.

I know it's a YMMV trope, but is this widespread enough to count? From what I've seen, his redesign is preferred.

Does Rebus Bubble require math-stuff? Or have to be a puzzle? Wikipedia: Rebus

'Cause I moved GirlGenius.Tropes P To T's entries to be under Pictorial Speech-Bubble due to not involving mathematical operators.

Or is it just the presence of lingual symbols like "!", "?", etc? [Edit: With those pictures.]

... Also, the Laconic.Rebus Bubble needs fixing to align with whatever it is as well. Or just moved to Laconic.Pictorial Speech Bubble?

From Rebus Bubble:

• This sequence from Girl Genius, though (follow ups are more distinctly arithmetical), with bonus Stealth Puns.
  • Agatha's creations communicate this way.

edited 22nd Jun '18 8:30:33 PM by Malady

Pictorial Speech-Bubble, as you mention, is the supertrope for all kinds of pictures used in speech bubbles. Just having characters like '!' or '?' doesn't count. It needs to be some kind of pictures. There are often characters like that after the pictures, but there needs to be pictures.

Rebus Bubble is a subtrope that does require that kind of equations. If it didn't, there wouldn't be a point to it being a subtrope. If it's a puzzle similar to that, it could probably fit as well. The idea is that it's not just a simple illustrating image, but a complex thought pattern with several discrete parts.

- So, I think I'm in the right then. ... Yeah, I meant "!" and "?" in addition to the pictures, but no "+" or "=" and stuff.

Would "Deal With The Devil" be a Pun-Based Title, if one of the characters deal-making, is the daughter, and similar in appearance to, someone named Demonica, but doesn't have a demonic / devilish name?

edited 22nd Jun '18 8:35:08 PM by Malady

I was trying to clean up Ho Yay a bit but Homoerotic Subtext has some dubious examples. I don't know whether these are intentional subtext.

• The Kids on the Slope anime is full of this, specifically between Sentaro and Kaoru. Even though the main characters eventually each have their own female Love Interests, they have an equal amount of Fanservice with each other:
  • In Episode 1, the scene when Kaoru first meets Sentaro is blatantly ripped-off from some shoujo manga, complete with the pink background and the line "So, you have come to take me". It is explained later in the manga that Sentarou thought that Kaoru was an angel who've come to take him away in his nap, not helped by how Kaoru has been known as having a 'pretty face' according to Ritsuko (which she corrected into 'handsome' right away).
  • Sentaro and Kaoru constantly bicker in exaggerated manners, even though they actually get along pretty well, as stated by Ritsuko. Kaoru throws a fit when Sentaro agrees to play music with another man! (Rock and roll, no less. The horror!)
  • There are many scenes in which Sentaro has no sense of space around Kaoru, including patting his head or shoulders, trying to share a jacket with him to shelter from rain, or pining him down to his bed in a serious manner, much to Kaoru's surprise. Kaoru once literally states that Sentaro is so good-looking, he sometimes takes his breath away.

• Naruto:
  • Hashirama Senju and Madara Uchiha are this + Foe Romance Subtext. As it turns out, this is because they're the reincarnations of the Sage of the Six Paths younger and older sons, respectively. After Madara finally died, they were reincarnated again — as Naruto and Sasuke.
  • Naruto and Sasuke have this and it's lampshaded often by other characters. There's also the three accidental kisses they had, the Does This Remind You of Anything? moments, the occasional No Sense of Personal Space around each other, and Naruto angsts/thinks quite a bit about Sasuke in Part II.
  • Kakashi and Obito. After his death, Kakashi's guilt caused him to idealize Obito to such an extent that everything in his life revolved around him. He spent years trying to live up to Obito's loyalty to his comrades and kind-hearted nature, and even adopted an entirely new personality and mannerisms to emulate Obito as a memorial to him. Even his chronic lateness is attributed to Obito — not only was Obito similarly late as a kid due to his helpful nature, but also, Kakashi's lateness is because he spends every. single. day. at the Memorial Stone, staring at Obito's name for three hours straight. Obito is the one death Kakashi has never been able to move past, all but making him The Lost Lenore to him. Learning that Obito was Tobi, and thus responsible for nearly every tragedy he and his team (especially Naruto and Sasuke) have suffered over the course of the manga, including their sensei's death, almost breaks him beyond repair. On Obito's end, though he doesn't admit it, Kakashi is equally important to him. Obito's ideal world is not only one where Rin is alive, but also one where his closest friend lived up to the ideals that drove him in his youth.

edited 23rd Jun '18 8:51:39 AM by Pichu-kun