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Misuse Alt-names Crowner 14/3/12: YMMV get usage counts

I think it should be clear this isn't a repair shop issue, YMMV isn't broken it only has a lot of excessive wicks due to the change in how the term is used in the wiki. This is a Special Efforts thread. I can't say I'll comb through the wiki looking specifically for the term but I will zap it when I find it.

 27 Septimus Heap, Sat, 28th Jan '12 11:49:13 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
You might have a point there, but the problem I see is that this page combines wiki policy guideline and misuse bait in one. Cleaning up misuse isn't really useful if more misuse comes in.

 28 Septimus Heap, Thu, 9th Feb '12 1:46:02 PM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
To reiterate:
  1. Since YMMV is not a trope but a guideline page (and an index) it should go under Administrivia.YMMV or YMMV.Home Page, but not under /Main/.
  2. Having bluelinked pages YMMV and Your Mileage May Vary only leads to misuse, as the wick check shows. On the other hand, it has enough inbounds and actual usefulness that it should be kept as a disambiguation/disclaimer page like This Troper, rather than cut or redirected.
  3. While some of the misuse is due to the lack of cleanup after the redefinition of Your Mileage May Vary, other misuse is ongoing one and can't be addressed by a cleanup alone, but only by redlinking.

 29 Troacctid, Thu, 9th Feb '12 2:11:50 PM from California
What's wrong with having indexes in Main/? Most indexes are in Main/.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
 30 shimaspawn, Thu, 9th Feb '12 2:20:00 PM from Here and Now Relationship Status: In your bunk
YMMV is an index. Indexs go in the main. Thus YMMV goes in the main. Simple.
Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

-Philip K. Dick
 31 Septimus Heap, Fri, 10th Feb '12 4:50:04 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
[up] Because they attract misuse as tropes.

EDIT To Add: And because YMMV isn't a trope. Many indexes are supertropes or genre lists. This one is not.

Anyway, the main point is to make YMMV harder to wick to since it only makes trouble.

edited 10th Feb '12 7:13:40 AM by SeptimusHeap

 32 Septimus Heap, Mon, 13th Feb '12 8:10:00 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
OK, so can we at least move this to some other page soa s to stop the misuse, or should a clean-up suffice?

 33 Septimus Heap, Fri, 17th Feb '12 8:21:19 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
Bumping. I'd like to see an idea about this:

(and note that "Unclear" means "incorrect, but not specified")

This gives 2 "ghost wicks" and 2 correct uses among 76 incorrect ones - a 95% misuse rate.

 34 Septimus Heap, Sun, 4th Mar '12 4:07:30 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
My goodness, this just keeps dying.

So there are several options on the table: Mine on the previous page, the cleanup-only one at the top of this one and doing nothing. Do we need a crowner at this stage.

Dragon Writer
Crowner time?

IMHO, I have never liked the "YMMV" label. Yes, I know it's an abbreviation and a synonym for "Subjective Trope" (or "subjective example"), but as samples show people are linking it like a Stock Phrase. Seriously, 7000 wikilinks and a high proportion of sinkholes is a level that otherwise only "If You Know What I Mean" could reach.
 36 Septimus Heap, Sun, 4th Mar '12 8:09:37 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
Yeah, that page invites misuse like you invite a vampire in. It has enough meaning that it should stay, but not enough that we can afford leaving it a bluelink -especially since the misuse seems to be partly leftover and partly ongoing.

Of course, a fake redlink will need the current index to be moved somewhere else, since you can't edit fake-redlinks without blueshifting them.

I will take another opinion before going to a crowner.

Dragon Writer
If no cleanup was ever performed, maybe take it to Special Efforts?
 38 Septimus Heap, Sun, 4th Mar '12 10:56:39 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
[up]There is ongoing misuse and a rule against it - Examples Are Not Arguable (to which Examples Are Not YMMV is a redirect). I seriously doubt that a cleanup alone will suffice under these circumstances.

 39 Septimus Heap, Mon, 5th Mar '12 10:43:54 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
OK, so I've made a Page Action crowner to decide on the course to take, since the problem is acknowledged but there are different solution proposals.

 40 Septimus Heap, Fri, 9th Mar '12 4:58:40 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
Bumping for more votes so that it can be resolved.

 41 Septimus Heap, Mon, 12th Mar '12 4:05:13 PM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
Hopefully the last bump, as for now the options in green:
  • Cleanup is at 11/1
  • Split the index/administrative guideline off is at 12/2
  • Redlink the redirects is at 9/1

Do nothing is at 1/7 red.

A few more votes for the top options and this one can proceed.

 42 ccoa, Tue, 13th Mar '12 7:43:39 AM from the Sleeping Giant
Ravenous Sophovore
Looks like votes are still coming in. Let's give it another day.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
 43 ccoa, Wed, 14th Mar '12 5:46:20 AM from the Sleeping Giant
With Mod Hat On
Calling the crowner. None of the top three options are mutually exclusive, please implement them all.
Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.
 44 Septimus Heap, Wed, 14th Mar '12 6:16:01 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
Before we can implement the split, we'll need the name of the page we are splitting the guideline into - I've made an alt-titles crowner here.

About the fake redlinking, Your Mileage May Vary has too many inbounds to be cut and several past requests for Your Milage May Vary were declined, so I will ask Eddie to redlink both pages.

[down]Thanks.

edited 14th Mar '12 8:02:25 AM by SeptimusHeap

 45 Best Of, Wed, 14th Mar '12 7:40:46 AM from Finland Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
With Mod Hat On
Thread renamed and Crowners swapped.
Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
 46 Septimus Heap, Wed, 14th Mar '12 9:37:11 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
Also, I've created Sandbox.YMMV for the proposed disambiguation/disclaimer to put in where YMMV now is.

 47 Septimus Heap, Wed, 14th Mar '12 9:43:31 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
I have to downvote anything without "YMMV" in the name as we are still calling the namespace /YMMV/. And we renamed Subjective Tropes for being a misnomer.

 48 Mag Bas, Wed, 14th Mar '12 9:54:08 AM from In my house
Home Page is not already the ymmv page? EDIT:I guess none of the names with "tropes" is a good idea. YMMV are not tropes.

edited 14th Mar '12 9:59:07 AM by MagBas

 49 Septimus Heap, Wed, 14th Mar '12 9:56:37 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
No, it's a redirect to YMMV. About[up], Complete Monster is a trope but still YMMV. Not all YMMV's are Audience Reactions.

edited 14th Mar '12 10:16:38 AM by SeptimusHeap

 50 Septimus Heap, Sun, 18th Mar '12 3:07:52 AM from Zurich, Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Another Wizard boy
Bumping, vote tally so far:

Everything else in red, and no fake-redlinking of the redirects has occurred yet.

Alternative Titles: YMMV
14th Mar '12 6:11:28 AM
Vote up names you like, vote down names you don't. Whether or not the title will actually be changed is determined with a different kind of crowner (the Single Proposition crowner). This one just collects and ranks alternative titles.
At issue:
Previous crowner showed consensus support to split the administrative guideline off the YMMV page so that it can be redlinked.
Total posts: 66
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