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Linking to a past Trope Repair Shop thread that dealt with this page: Remove Redirect for , started by Premonition45 on Oct 9th 2011 at 8:44:28 PM
Previous Trope Repair Shop thread: Complaining, started by Nazo on Jul 24th 2017 at 5:12:24 AM
Before I discovered this wiki, I came up with a term called "Catching Flies with Honey". The more affable you are to the audience the easier it is for them to overlook or even excuse your less savoury aspects.
I think this might fit as a form of misaimed fandom better. Where the author intends to show that the "good guys" do bad things, but the audience considers them good or justifiable, as people generally find it easier to relate to someone who is polite.
But I don't want to add things willy nilly, so what do you think? Is it already covered and I misunderstood, should it be a different YMMV article, or what?
I think the subpages need some serious revision. As I understand it, the key point is that the audience likes a character (or something else) that the author didn't intend them to like. There seem to be a lot of examples where the audience, say, likes a character who is a major Jerkass, but the author pretty clearly intends them to be liked.
For example, Barney Stinson in How I Met Your Mother. Yeah, on paper we shouldn't like him given the way he treats women, but we do, and I think it's obvious that we are meant to like him.
The trouble may be divining what the author intended, especially is the author is dead. Maybe we should tweak the definition? Or just remove the examples where the author obviously intended the character to be liked?
What about the son "Make a Man out of you" from Mulan? I see that used in AM Vs and quoted a lot in contexts that clearly seem to forget it's an Ironic part of a Feminist movie.
Would this cover examples of "Misaimed Hatedom" for those that hate something for something that either isn't true or isn't their fault?
"hatedom" and "fandom" are different things. Beyond this, this is not about if something is not true or is not their fault, but yes things that the fandom interprets differently of the form that the author intended.
Personally one example of misaimed fandom I often see is with the "fans" of yuri series such as Strike Witches. On fanfiction.net I constantly see people denying that its a yuri series ignoring character relationships and instead hooking them up with a gary stu self insert. Its not just related to Strike Witches either I have seen this sort of thing with pretty much every yuri series where yuri isn't the main element. I guess it doesn't help what the overall attitude towards yuri in Japan is like either since they have the attitude that its stupid and childish so yuri is delegated to subtext usually and there is often the implication that the school girl lesbians "grow out of it" and get into a "real" relationship. Ugh this bugs me e.e
Over at the TRS for Draco in Leather Pants, it was decided to convert said trope to a fanfic only trope, a decision made for Ron the Death Eater, and move all examples from both elsewhere. I just wanted to know if they could be moved over to this trope, as they are character oriented examples.
The best place to ask would be in that TRS thread.
From the main page: "Of course, while fans are entitled to their own interpretation, that does not mean they are always right. The writer's original intention should usually be considered first; they're the ones actually putting their thoughts down and getting them published, after all."
I don't see how this logically follows. Isn't this more of an opinion than should go into the introduction? Even though it's tempered later, I don't think it goes far enough in being neutral. I don't think it's obvious that the writer's original intention should usually be considered first, or that it should be consulted at all.
I would agree with that.
Could somebody change the trope image? Maybe it's just me, but I don't feel that either the image or the caption describes it very well. Sure, you might think that since he's a historical figure, everyone on the entire planet Earth might know him, but that's not the case. Think of those who never even heard of him!
Whether or not they know who he is(Castro, right?), I find the image and its text quite insulting to communism and communists like me.
It's Che Guevara. Anyway, it's not anti-communist, it's anti-hypocrite. Making a profit off giving people pro-communist items is called "capitalism."
Except that is is in fact a Flanderization of Comunisims and/or Socalism to suggest they are all entirely against all buying and selling.
Technically, it's a strawman, not flanderization.
Flanderization requires a minor aspect of something to be exaggerated. But "against buying and selling" is not part of either socialism or communism at all.
Any chance of getting a Misaimed Genre/Target Audience Fail trope?
Like for example, say there is a comic that was aimed at young men & it not only attracts mostly women but makes most men squick. (It doesn't help that most of these series are actually written by women either). Sometimes the publishers are smart & change the target audience, though most figure that the same costumers will continue to buy reguardless & don't touch it.
I don't think the Misaimed Hatedom redirect suits this trope. Misaimed Fandom is all about works that are loved in a manner not intended by their makers.
Misaimed Hatedom implies that a work is hated in a manner not intended by the maker, which sounds like Periphery Hatedom aka The Barney. So Misaimed Hatedom is more suitable as a redirect for that trope.
Periphery Hatedom is hatedom from an outside demographic.
Misaimed Hatedom doesn't make any sense. Misaimed Fandom means it's loved in a manner not intended by the maker, as you said, but Misaimed Hatedom is then redundant since presumably a creator does not aspire to be hated in any manner.
Regarding the Taxi Driver example in the Film sub-page...
...the hell is the "W-word"?
For those who don't know, Bellatrix went into a loveless, arranged marriage with her husband, and only because it was expected of her.
It is a common fanon theory, but it ain't in the text
I'm doing a bit of cleanup on this page. The list of related tropes is freaky long. I stuck it in a folder. Is that all right?
Cut this from the film section:
Mentioning Glenn Beck is just asking for natter, and it doesn't really add anything to the example.
Cut from Literature (Lolita):
I don't think that's a critical part of the example. The second point especially.
I got to halfway through the music section. There are still a couple of things I wasn't sure about (Marvel Civil War, Warrior Cats, The Shield) because I'm not familiar with the works in question. I didn't even bother going through Anime and Manga, because I'd be hopelessly lost. I leave that in the hands of some other intrepid editor.
Er, I think the page image could stand revision. It looks to be a Fandom Secret, and the whole point of those is that they aren't something you can openly admit to in fandom due to being Fetish Fuel or the like. They realize it's not intended by the creators or healthy, that's why it's a secret.
(Sapphire Redux) What are the other ethnic slurs used in Michael Jackson's "They Don't Care About Us"? I've heard the song many times and read the lyrics, and the only ones brought up were the anti-Semetic ones.
Can I point out that outside of North America the Official Nintendo Seal is still called the Seal of Quality? (at the very least in Europe)
Yes you may, here in Holland it is still on the product. I've seen it pretty much all of my life.
Well, since the NES came around that is.
I edited the entry about 'Firefly,' removing natter which 1) didn't relate to the topic, 2) bashed the creator needlessly and dubiously, and 3) came across like the troper who added it fit into the description of the misaimed fandom, and was complaining about it.
The day the word "fandom" can be used of this troper's reaction to Firefly is the day he ends his life, no matter how well-aimed that fandom is.
It's not "dubious" to say Whedon's a simplistically feminist hack whose works are full of Straw Misogynists—his fans concede that, except for the "hack" part.
And it is not Misaimed Fandom to like Jayne better than, say, Mal, whose status as an antihero is a very thin veneer over, in essence, Alan Alda. People are allowed to react differently to characters. Emphasizing the good points of an obvious strawman—like Jayne, or any Whedon male who isn't an Author Avatar—is a useful exercise, and would keep creators honest, if they could hear the alternate interpretation over the deafening applause. Besides, it wouldn't take much character development to turn Jayne's relationship with River into Slap-Slap-Kiss; if the show had lasted longer it would be an almost obvious development, if Whedon could be bothered to flesh out his Straw Misogynist.
Still, the response did roughly count as Natter, this troper concedes the point—and tries to come up with a better way to put it.
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How well does it match the trope?