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openCould someone who knows what happens in this series help with something? Literature
I was going through Meanwhile, in the Future…'s related pages to see if there were any that should be placed in Flashback B-Plot and I found The Nine Lives Of Michal Piech which seems to have this trope but I haven't read it so I don't know if it definitely is or not. Would someone who's read this be willing to confirm if they really contain this trope or if I just misunderstood it? These are the pages I added it to:
I also messaged the author asking about this. Edited by Troper48openConversation in the Main Page on Fangirl Literature
I was looking over the page for Literature/Fangirl , and I noticed the following Jerkass Has a Point entry:
- Jerkass Has a Point:
- "Jerkass" probably isn't the right word, but Professor Piper is right about Cath's fanfiction being plagiarism, despite her protests. Though the fanfic community is talked about far kinder these days, the subject is still a legal grey area for properties that aren’t in the public domain, which Simon Snow presumably isn't. But it's generally agreed that it's harmless, if not a bit dodgy if the writer is not making a profit off of their fanfic. But Cath turned it in as a college assignment, though as homework and not for her final project. For a writing class, what Cath did was on par with buying an essay online, turning it in, and getting caught. She's lucky she even got a chance to make up for it. Levi even lampshades it, saying the simple solution is don't turn in fanfiction.
- On the other hand, Professor Piper's opinion is not universal, so her giving Cath a failing grade is about on the same level as a professor giving a failing grade on a historical paper because they have an interpretation that disagrees with that of the paper.
- On the other, other hand, Professor Piper asked Cath to write an original story. And at the end of the day, she didn't, the world and characters were not created by Cath and no matter how she wants to spin that fact won't change. Professor Piper is basically telling Cath she needs to get out of her comfort zone and at this point in the novel, she really hasn't.
- Cath has a moment when fighting with Wren about visiting their mother. She tells Wren that Laura broke all of them, Wren included, and that she'd rather pick up her own pieces than be "wasted" the way her sister is all the time. Cath ends up being right on both of these points; her mother ends up leaving an unconscious Wren right when she would have been needed, and Wren nearly dies from alcohol poisoning. Art, their dad, makes Wren see a counselor to handle her problems rather than drink them away. Their dad also points out that when Wren tries to say she doesn't want to be a shut-in like Cath, that her twin sister has maintained her 4.0 GPA for her scholarship and has a nice boyfriend.
- On the other hand, whether or not Wren wants to reconnect with Laura is her choice. Her reasons are not unfounded, and she's given the opportunity. Meanwhile, Cath at first acts like a spoiled brat throwing a tantrum that Wren's even considering it. Later, she says she's not fine with Wren going but doesn't want to fight her about it; it's Wren who initiates the argument by saying her sister is "making" her do this alone. Cath already made her choice, it's none of her business what Wren chooses. Cath eventually accepts this, and she and Wren agree to just not speak about the issue.
- Art tends to be right when he is losing his temper. He tells Cath that dropping out of college because it's too hard is the equivalent of quitting and that sets a precedent for life. Cath needs a few days to admit that he's right, especially when he says that she doesn't have to take care of him. Later, he says that Wren is out of control with her drinking and that if she doesn't see a counselor and go cold turkey, he's making her drop out.
- "Jerkass" probably isn't the right word, but Professor Piper is right about Cath's fanfiction being plagiarism, despite her protests. Though the fanfic community is talked about far kinder these days, the subject is still a legal grey area for properties that aren’t in the public domain, which Simon Snow presumably isn't. But it's generally agreed that it's harmless, if not a bit dodgy if the writer is not making a profit off of their fanfic. But Cath turned it in as a college assignment, though as homework and not for her final project. For a writing class, what Cath did was on par with buying an essay online, turning it in, and getting caught. She's lucky she even got a chance to make up for it. Levi even lampshades it, saying the simple solution is don't turn in fanfiction.
Now this is obviously some pretty egregious Conversation in the Main Page (with a side of indentation issues) but I'm not familiar enough with the book to be sure about what should be kept.
resolved Sandboxes for work pages Literature
I plan to create work page for one book series (it has no page on this wiki, I checked). Knowing what my memory is unreliable (first book is from 2004, for example, I was at middle school back then), I currently re-reading it, so I may add and correct things on the go.
To avoid littering wiki with unfinished drafts in Literature/ namespace, I want to use sandbox to work on it, but wouldn't risk this unless I'm sure it's allowed. For now, I work in document outside of TV Tropes, but it creates entirely different set of problems, namely inability to check wether formatting works, or experimenting with classifying characters to find optimal way.
If allowed, I would put current draft in sandbox (or two, since both main page and characters pages wouldn't be short even in current, unfinished state) and continue from here. This way, I can work on it at my own pace, launching it when ready.
openCreator/author both subverting and playing to fan service? Literature
I'm just wondering if this is a thing. Here's the description(feel free to give any feedback): There is a work(movie, piece of literature, or whatever) and there's been a lot of anticipation of "what a sequel might be look like." The most prominent example off of the top of my head is the lack of a second season of the TV show "Firefly." Or, more relevant: the amount of time between the Original Trilogy of Star Wars and the Prequels(DAE remember that hype?). Anyhoo... due to there not being any "sequel" to the work, the author/their relative and/or later fan(s)/disciple(s) decides to make a sequel.
Here's the kicker to this trope: rather than just giving in and giving everyone a fan service, the author decides to subvert fan expectations and mix in both what everyone wants and doesn't want. AKA they give an "eff you" to the fans by subverting expectations. Or, more specifically, they play to the fan base BY changing key details(not exactly a Retcon, but not too, too far off) in unexpected ways. Some welcome the changes, and some don't. This usually divides the fan base.
Is this already a thing? I can't find anything like it anywhere(but I'm SURE it's a thing!). My tepid example is "the New Testament" and its elaboration on things like "God's grace" and "who is 'in God's in'" and all of the loaded readings/theology there, e.g. including gentiles in salvation as opposed to the "Old Testament/Hebrew Bible" with mostly the Jews and "grace" being tied to Jewish nationhood/identity instead of "faith" in the NT. Or, if we're going by "no real life examples": the giant controversy surrounding Rey and the cast/plot/basically everything in the Sequel Trilogy of Star Wars versus Prequelers and Originalist criticism.
Any thoughts? I'm not even sure if this would count as a trope, piece of media, or etc.? Just looking to see if this has been identified as a thing(and I'm not naming something too insanely specific).
Edited by KayMan17openCreator trope Literature
Earlier (I don't know when, but it was somewhere last year), I crossposted this trope to the A Song of Ice and Fire Trivia page:
- Fanwork Ban: While Martin doesn't outright ban fanworks of his series altogether, he has been very vocal about his dislike for them outside of fan art and discourages other authors from allowing its practice. His reasoning being that it causes copyright concerns and his belief that it's harmful to aspiring writers due to them using pre-existing characters as a crutch rather than creating their own, which is integral to the writing process.
However, after seeing other entries and explanations, should this go on George R. R. Martin's main page? This isn't something that's isolated to a single series of his, it's his viewpoint on fanfiction in general. Not to mention this is also an aversion since he doesn't outright ban or make it illegal to write and post fanfiction of his stories, he's just vocally against it and discourage's its practice. What should I do?
openTurning a fanfic into an original work Literature
Morning, everyone. So, I have been giving serious thought to turning my Naruto fanfic, Kitsune no Ken: Fist of the Fox, into an original piece of fiction to put up for sale, similar to how Fifty Shades of Grey started as a Twilight fanfic. I know that in order to do that, I'd obviously have to change the various character names and other details to make the story more of an original piece, and I'm currently working on that. However, I have a couple of related questions:
(1) Would it be wise or recommended to remove the fanfic from the site where it's currently posted, if I go the route of publishing the original piece?
(2) The fanfic has a trope page here; how would the publication of the original piece affect the trope page?
openExample folders Literature
How long does an example page need to be before we start adding alphabetized folders (one for all the A examples, for instance)? Affably Evil/Literature is getting a little hard to scroll through. (I'd ask on the discussion page there, but discussion pages never seem to get much traffic.)
openAre images blatantly taken with a smartphone of a book good? Literature
I didn't see anything on Administrivia.How To Pick A Good Image, so just double-checking if a picture taken of a book's artwork where it's taken at angle so the page fold is clearly visible within the picture is fine or not.
openMoving Character Page Literature
The page Characters.Harry Potter Hogwarts Teachers contains other staff besides just professors. I'm thinking of moving the content over to Characters.Harry Potter Hogwarts Staff. Any objections?
openWeird literature example sorting Literature
So I found Dangerous Visions by accident. What is even going on in the example list. It looks like a total mess.
openAgatha Christie books crosswicking needed Literature
I just launched the page Impersonation-Exclusive Character and I'm in the process of Crosswicking everything but I haven't read Agatha Christie's books though I may read them in the future, so would someone who has read them be willing to crosswick them to their respective pages? I just don't want to needlessly spoil the books if I'm going to end up reading them eventually.
Edited by Troper48openSource for this trivia fact Literature
Under No Adaptations Allowed it is said that Roald Dahl put it in his will that there be no film adaptations of Charlie and the Great Glass Elevator, given that he hated the 1971 film did. While I do acknowledge that he refused an adaptation of the book while alive, I can't find sources that he put in his will that no film adaptations are permitted. I'm asking because the 2018 Netflix deal with the Roald Dahl Story Company includes that book in the agreement, so I'm trying to figure out if its a loophole in the will or there was no such stipulation in the first place.
open ‘Pay attention, there’s nasty criminals around,’ said the nasty criminal. Literature
So I’m looking for a trope where a rogueish or downright murderous character warns someone else, meant sincerely or not, that they really ought not to be in [seedy place they currently are], typically saying something resembling the example above, almost as if they’re completely unaware (or feigning to be unaware) of the fact that they are exactly the person they’re currently warning about. Any idea? I hope this is in the right spot, I’m new round here.
openSubpages needed, but how? Literature
The page Harry Potter And The Halfblood Prince is getting super long and really needs some subpages. But... it's a headscratcher page. Does anyone have any idea how the subpages could be organized? Would it make sense, for example, to have a subpage just for all the "why did Dumbledore do this" questions and another for all the "why did Snape do this" questions?
openUnmarked spoilers Literature
If Them's the Rules seems to contain unmarked spoilers, from what I can tell (I haven't read the fic). Is there some justification for it being Spoilers Off?
opentroping ymmv for your own works Literature
So I was going to remove an unapproved Magneficent Bastard on Red Room entry when I noticed something odd. The entry had been added by Charles Phipps whose also the author C.T. Phipps (i.e. the person who wrote the book).
This is not an isolated incident as they add ymmv tropes to every work theyve apparenlty written.
And so and so on. This is really large scale in terms of troping your own ymmv tropes.
openMerchant Princes and Mafia Literature
Reading the TV Tropes on Merchant Princes, I was wondering if Mafia dons and gangsters also qualified as variations on the tropes, creating power, at least underworld power, through their own financial means. Or do they have to have respectable positions in society? As a side note, Corporate CE Os have considerable political and social clout—-are Bill Gates and the Koch Brothers Merchant Princes?
User Durendal_1138 is on a small crusade to edit out mention of some of Lindsay Ellis' recent defensive arguments in favor of Twilight.
Specific examples can be found on,
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.LindsayEllis
and
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.Twilight
the latter of which had a "charming" reason given,
"What absolute horseshit. Ellis pulled that from the deepest part of her ass, no one gave Twilight shit because girls liked it, they criticised it for the number of problems it had, including the fact that it was at times deeply sexist, racist and promoted abusive relationships."
One of the edits was added back in, but I suspect that unless somebody has a sit-down with Durendal, we'll just see this continue, especially taking into consideration their rather heated opinions.