During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Prince Ragnar
Yeah, sure, I'll say yes to Ragnar with that in mind. And yes to the Red Skull. "I have a cold so I'm gonna murder thousands of people" seems about the appropriate response to the Skull getting sick.
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Overlord needs to be trimmed, AND updated. And Ravok, I'd thought Lighty was gonna do the IDW stuff too, but I think he said a few days ago that he's not?
Are we cutting Klaus the Ripper?
Falcone; Montagu; Ragnar; hesitant yes to Skull.
Red Skull and Ragnar
Falcone; Montagu; Ragnar; Red Skull
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Moriarty (no fault of the EP)
Edit: did we ever discuss Brainiac in the Lego Batman series? Tried smart search but couldn't see discussion of him.
Edited by captainmarkle on Apr 11th 2020 at 3:38:33 AM
Trans rights are human rights. If you don't think that, please leave.
to Lord Percy Montagu and Prince Ragnar.
I've got another post from another setting I'm happy to bring up another keeper from. Everybody remember my post on Mongrelamus from the Krosmoz universe? This is a series probably best known in the West for Wakfu, a charming cartoon with a rich (and mostly French) lore.
Wakfu, for the longest time, was agreed to not have a CM. The respective Big Bad of each season all have nakedly obvious disqualifiers, but the second season's villain, Qilby, comes the closest. He's a traitor to his people, the Eliatropes, who sets them up to die over a mistake he caused. Said mistake ties back to our candidate today: Orgonax, the leader of the Mechasm people.
Who is Orgonax? What has he done?
Youngest of a race called the Mechasms that once lived in harmony with the Eliatrope people, Orgonax was spurred to action when Qilby stole Orgonax's heart to create a powerful artifact called the Eliacube. Orgonax, in retribution, calls for the slaughter of the entire Eliatrope people alongside their dragon brethren, and launches an enormous war upon their planet to exterminate them all. Qilby dodges responsibility while Orgonax slaughters the Eliatropes and the dragons in enormous numbers, flashbacks to which we see vividly in Wakfu's second season.
Now, off Wakfu alone, Orgonax wouldn't count...it's the video game Islands of Wakfu that give him enough of a presence to be on this trope. The Eliatropes narrowly escape their fate of genocide at Orgonax's hands, their numbers shaved, but eventually Orgonax manages to track them down. This time, he's alone, but while the rest of his people seem to have no more interest in war Orgonax refuses to give up his crusade of revenge until the Eliatropes are totally destroyed. Orgonax allies with the vicious Lu-Fu pirates and brings a cataclysm to the planet the Eliatropes have settled upon, restarting the slaughter all over again. King Yugo (who will reincarnate into the show's Kid Hero 10,000 years in the future) is killed trying to fend off Orgonax, and Orgonax carves a path of destruction in his wake, letting the Lu-Fus kill even the other innocent races cohabiting the planet with the Eliatropes.
Eventually, Orgonax has killed all but a scant five Eliatrope children and the last adult Eliatrope, Nora, who manages to spirit away the children and the egg containing the soul of King Yugo beyond Orgonax's reach. Furious, Orgonax pursues Nora to the top of Mount Zinit in one last effort to kill her. Nora, with literally no option left, infuses herself with the power of the Eliatropes' goddess and performs a Heroic Sacrifice that kills all life on the planet, just to stop Orgonax's path of carnage and finally deactivating the rogue Mechasm forever.
Any mitigating factors?
Mmm, no, not really. Qilby gets no brownie points whatsoever for starting the whole shindig by pissing Orgonax off in the first place, and I must stress Qilby himself is a nasty bastard whose psychotic idea of space-faring involves mass murder on a planetary scale. Regardless, Qilby loves his dragon sister and has a whopper of an Alas, Poor Villain moment at his end, so we're left to look at Orgonax who carries out the actual genocide Qilby manipulates. In that regard? Orgonax annihilates the heinous standard. The genocide of the Eliatropes and the dragons is one of the defining atrocities of the Krosmoz's history and Orgonax racks up a body count that stands above most other villains in the series saving Qilby himself and some of the Shushu.
My only concern is that he's not much of a character, even with Islands of Wakfu, but we seem to get enough. There's no evidence of any agency issues resulting from the actual theft of his heart and while Orgonax is completely in his right to be mad at Qilby literally stealing his heart, driving that campaign so far as to try and exterminate the entire people (over a misinterpretation, at that!), butchering a planet full of other unrelated species just because the Eliatropes happen to colonize that world and carrying out his crusade even when the rest of his race has decided to say “fuck it” brings him beyond reason. We see a few visual indications of personality, anyway—he's an engine of constant rage on legs who is clearly pissed beyond reason when he sees the victims of his genocide have escaped him.
Conclusion?
Keeper. Could be one more from this series in the form of Rushu later on.
Edited by Scraggle on Apr 11th 2020 at 5:50:09 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Okay, I wanna vote yes, but I'd say having your heart stolen is no small thing...
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
to Chris McLean, Falcone, Montagu, Red Skull, Ragnar and Organax. to Delany and Moriarty.
Goku Black
skull, Ragnar, Orgonox.
@Captain Markle The LEGO Adaptation Game villains tend not to count, since most of what is done there is Played for Laughs. But I'd like to see how one would count (I played a lot of them when I was a kid).
"I'll show you the Dark Side." CM actors and kills
Yes to Montagu, Red Skull, Ragnar, and Orgonax. Abstain on Moriarty.
Red Skull and Orgonax. Also, I’m taking a short break from the thread for a while. Final Fantasy 7 remake just released yesterday, and I want to avoid spoilers until I beat the game. I’ll be back as soon I beat the game. Though I may visit briefly for the Resident Evil 3 remake discussion. Take care, everyone!
Edited by Michealthehero21 on Apr 11th 2020 at 6:22:10 AM
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Montagu, Red Skull, Ragnar and Organax.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Also I can't find the Harley Quinn (2019) Joker at DC Animation. Which is weird because it was there a few days ago and I know that the thread didn't vote to cut. I already requested that it be added back I hope that is ok.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
to Montagu, Red Skull, Ragnar and Organax
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yeah, that's fine. I guess when folderizing it got screwy.
EDIT: Also, because Vymes is in the Top Cow series, that'll also need to go to that page, so:
- Tomb Raider: The Series:
- "The Trap—Path of the Tiger" arc (issues 21-23) & "Strange Flesh" arc (issues 29-30): Lord Vymes is a being of Anti-Matter who is rumored to be an Asura, an evil lower god. Starting of as a stream of raw shapeless hunger, Vymes clawed his way to Earth and took the form of a human that he first devoured. Rising to nobility in human society, Vymes devoured and murdered countless people in the past and decorated his castle with their bones. After Lara Croft refused to have any deals with him, Vymes tried to kill her and captured her lover Tsang. Buying her Croft Manor, Vymes tried to trick her into finding him the Waters of Death and Life, threatening to eat Tsang, whom he imprisoned in his own flesh, while fully intending on killing and devouring them both anyway as soon as Lara gave him what he wanted.
- "Tower of Souls" arc (issues 43-44): Ian O'Conner is a vile member of the O'Conner family. After his father died, he begins fighting for control of their castle, eventually killing his priest brother on a holy altar. Discovering the existence of the Dolmen Emerald, the ancient artifact which gives the owner immortality in exchange for torture and pain, Ian starts torturing countless men, women and children to death. In the present, he uses his henchman to lure people in to his castle as a fuel to the Dolmen Emerald, and attempts to torture Lara Croft to death after capturing her.
Edited by ACW on Apr 11th 2020 at 12:22:52 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Ultimate Moral Compass
Montagu, Ragnar, Red Skull, and Orgonax
Speaking of Top Cow...
- Son of Merlin, by Robert Place Napton: Morgana le/la fay, Merlin's evil cousin, is a cruel sorceress turned CEO of La Fey Industries. Seeking to claim Merlin’s diary and the Stone of Giramphiel, Morgana plans to use their powers to awaken the Keres, demons that, once unleashed, will devour all of humanity and plunge the world into an eternal darkness. Murdering Merlin for his diary, Morgana sends her Black Knights to slay Merlin’s son Simon for the diary, snapping one’s neck for failing to kill him. Using Simon to help her unleash the Keres upon the Earth in return for his safety, Morgana still kills him anyway, knowing that he’ll just betray her.
Organax and Ragnar
Edited by WaryHoglet on Apr 11th 2020 at 10:24:37 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Orgonax
So... no one from Steven Universe Future counts I’m assuming?
Edited by NattesNovgrel on Apr 11th 2020 at 2:36:30 PM
Lizzid people!
Of course.
Goku Black
Would honestly be weird if somone did count.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."