During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'll read it tomorrow, but an extra trivia: If not Casablanca, Veidt's probably best known for inspiring Cesar Romero's Joker.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Yes to Ibrahim and Gessler...hang tight as I'm gonna have the original gessler in a proposal before too long, but for now? From Waxworks...
What's the work?
Waxworks or Das Wachsfigurenkabinett is a German 1924 Silent Horror filmby Paul Leni, about a writer who accepts a job to write a series of blurbs about the exhibits at a wax museum....now, it's an anthology film based on the lives of its subjects, one of whom is Ivan the Terrible of Russia, played by Veidt.
Who is Ivan?
The Czar of Russia and a sadistic tyrant, described as a brute who has 'turned cities into cemeteries,' Ivan has a twisted hobby in between mass murder: He likes to keep a torture cellar where he takes victims and poisons them. Enjoying watching them twist and writhe in agonized pain, Ivan visits it nightly to see his work, writing the names of his victims on the hourglass and enjoying to time it so their lives end when the brains of sand falls...his poison-mixer is the one who is commissioned to craft poisons, Ivan taunting them with the hourglass to see their lives drain away....when he suspects the poison-mixer of treason for pity on a victim, the man tries to escape his fate by writing Ivan's name on an hourglass....
After eliminating the poison mixer, Ivan is reminded he has a wedding to attend...however, fearing an assassination attempt, Ivan swaps the bride's father with himself, so the man is shot with an arrow. Then, getting tired of the wedding? Ivan freaks out, carries off the bride to rape later and takes the groom to the torture chamber....only to uncover the dreadful news he may have been poisoned.
a panicked Ivan rushes to the hourglass and attempts to reverse his fate by turning it over and over again and again....becoming insane and obsessed with it, turning it over and over...until his life ends, frantic not to die as he's condemned others to.
Heinousness?
It's an anthology film and Ivan's the worst of the lot. The first movie is a fantasy-adveture, Jack the Ripper/Springheel Jack is there but does very little. No, Ivan's little torture habit is enough here.
Mitigating Qualities?
Nope, he's just a cruel, sadistic tyrant. The only time he shows any humanity is when he thinks he's poisoned ad is so terrified he forgets the bride, but for obvious reasons I'm not inclined to see this as mitigating.
Conclusion?
Veidt does it again.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Ivan the terrible.
Fair warning: I can get pretty emotional and take things too seriously.
Messenger from another dimension.
Yes to Ivan. Likely the first version of him to count.
Edit: Yes to Gessler too!
Edited by emperors on Feb 25th 2020 at 9:38:55 AM
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Ivan.
By the way, I found three links to Body Snatcher in Comic Books: A to H, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, and Western Animation. Since the trope is now a disambiguation page, we have to replace the links with:
- Body Surf — The Body Snatcher leaps from host to host over the course of the story.
- Clone by Conversion — The Body Snatcher not only takes control of the host body, but transforms it into a copy of his original one.
- Demonic Possession — A spirit or energy being who puts the host's mind in a straitjacket.
- Familial Body Snatcher — An entity that takes over the bodies of their own family/descendants.
- "Freaky Friday" Flip — Body swapping for fun and learning. Hilarity Ensues.
- Freaky Friday Sabotage — Body swapping that backfires.
- Grand Theft Me — The Snatcher has a body, but they want a new one. Yours.
- People Puppets — Directly controlling another's body — no mucking about with souls.
- Puppeteer Parasite — Body Snatchers who are physical parasites. Body Horror ensues.
- Raised as a Host — A person is specifically raised to be the target of this.
The Draftsman of Doom
Gessler and Ivan.
Messenger from another dimension.
I have a DCAU villain to propose.
We all know DC Animated Universe. It is by far the best comic book adaptation, and better than any live-action superhero movies (maybe with the exception of The Dark Knight trilogy). Meet Icthultu, and Expy of Cthulhu.
Who is Icthultu and what does he do?
He is an ancient God and Eldritch Abomination. He and Old Ones spent centuries terrorizing the universe. They go from planet to planet where they demand worship, and human sacrifice. They invaded the planet of Thanagaria, and made Thanagarians worship him. However, since Icthultu constantly demanded human sacrifice, Thanagarians got tired of him.
In the episode, "The Terror Beyond", he invaded and Earth and demanded worship and human sacrifice or otherwise he would destroy all of Earth. Justice League go to his dimension and destroy him.
Heinous?
Easily. Demand of mass human sacrifice, and wanting to destroy the planet for refusing to worship him makes him one of the most heinous villains in the DCAU (next to Darkseid).
Disqualifying factors?
He might be a Generic Doomsday Villain, but I don't think so. He does actually speak in an episode and shows anger. For a villain like that, he actually shows personality. He is perfectly suited to be GDV, but I think he actually crosses into personality territory.
Verdict?
You guys decide, but I think I might have found another DCAU keeper.
Edited by emperors on Feb 25th 2020 at 10:12:24 AM
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
The Draftsman of Doom
Be more specific about what his personality is like, please.
If there is nothing more specific, I'm saying no, right off the bat.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Feb 25th 2020 at 10:15:51 AM
Rawr.
Messenger from another dimension.
When he tortures Hawkgirl, he asks why did Thanagarians stop worshipping him. He first says how he was owed worship and later gloats about killing Justice League. He says to Hawkgirl; "I gave your people everything; why did you forsake me?" He is also impressed with Hawkgirl when she defies him, before resuming to trying to kill Jusitce League.
From what we see, it's clear he is bloodthirsty Eldritch Abomination who wants worship and human sacrifice.
Edited by emperors on Feb 25th 2020 at 10:21:22 AM
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Ehhh...not feeling it. trying to destroy the world isn't unusual for DCAU baddies.
...I honestly don't know if that's enough.
An Eldritch Troper
Brainiac: Attempts to destroy the universe, all of creation, and has destroyed multiple planets (presumably).
Lord Orm: Personal cruelty against Aquaman, also attempts to kill all surface-dwellers.
Mongul: Threatens to destroy another planet, attempts to turn Earth into, I guess, a dictatorship where people are forced to fight to the death?
Darkseid and Joker: Torture, personal cruelty, attempts to harm millions of people, maybe not kill them, but still.
Also, what makes Blight from Batman Beyond stand out?
Edited by Draxterrus on Feb 25th 2020 at 11:35:54 PM
Humanity is defined by its absurdity, and I am no exception.
Messenger from another dimension.
After a second thought, it was kind off impulsive of me. Darkseid is more heinous (as I said in EP) but has way less resources. Nevermind. I know Arkady Duvall was listed once but cut later. I am trying to find discussion on him.
Edit: Actually all the above villains have much less resources but compete with him. Yeah, he doesn't count.
Edited by emperors on Feb 25th 2020 at 10:34:41 AM
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Just for comparison: Hro Talik tries to destroy earth, as do the ones who destroyed Mars. The Serpent Men try to genocide all humanity.
Ripple Man (that sounds like someone who has really loud farts, Haruko, Ibrahim, Gessler, & Ivan ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Icthulu (although he did give one of the best lines in the series
Ichthulhu: Speak to me, child of Thanagar. Hawkgirl: Nothing to say! I have a gesture for you, but my hands are tied.)
Edited by nwotyzal on Feb 25th 2020 at 7:39:32 AM
The Draftsman of Doom
Keeping my "no", although not for the reason I thought.
Rawr.
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
Veidt duo.
to Ivan the terrible
To the Cthulhu copycat
Current mood: sick of your shit
Haruko, Ibbe, Gessler and Ivan
Icthultu
Wasn't Darkseid also tried to wipe out entire universe?
Edited by VeryVileVillian on Feb 25th 2020 at 7:42:36 PM
Lord of Hell
Talking and getting angry doesn't mean someone isn't a GDV. That's just showing basic sapience. to Icthultu
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]")
Ibrahim and Gessler
"No running in the halls!"