During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Tarkin and Palpatine
Yes to Tarkin and Palpatine.
The wifi here sucks
Tarkin and Palpatine
Tarkin and Palpatine.
Palpatine and Tarkin
Edited by nwotyzal on Dec 4th 2019 at 5:14:43 AM
Lavos, Chieftain, Tony, Valdou, Palps and Tarkin
@falcon Thank you.
Still want to do that vote on a whole bunch I missed, but for now, to those versions of the Emperor and Tarkin.
I wanted to add 1994 to the animated Scar's entry to avoid confusion, but I'll wait for approval first before adding it to the drafts. EDIT: It's a small enough addition actually that I think it's okay:
- The Lion King (1994): Scar is the envious younger brother of King Mufasa who, upon losing his position as next in line to the throne by the birth of his nephew Simba, sought to take it by force. First tricking the young Simba and his friend Nala into entering the Elephant Graveyard to be killed by his hyena henchmen, Scar next orchestrates a wildebeest stampede and tosses Mufasa to his death after he attempts to rescue his son. Blaming a grief-stricken Simba for his father's murder, Scar forces him into exile before commanding the hyenas to finish him off. Upon taking control, Scar's incompetence as king leads to a famine, with Scar uncaring that he is sentencing everyone to death, even striking Mufasa's widow Sarabi unconscious when she criticizes his rule. Upon Simba's return, Scar takes advantage of Simba's lingering guilt over his father's death to attempt to execute him publicly, pausing only to mockingly reveal his role in Mufasa's death. Later, to save his own life, he attempts to foist the blame on his hyena henchmen before attempting to kill Simba, even after the latter spares his life.
@Beast The wording at the end of Ingrith's entry is a little awkward. Makes it sound like she's the one who rose from the ashes and not Maleficent.
I did a small edit to the new Jafar's entry that is now in the drafts. He didn't slow torture Dalia, only Aladdin and Sultan.
My maternal grandfather's wake was today. He passed away on Saturday. We weren't really close, but it's still sad. Today is also three years since we lost my maternal grandmother (his first wife).
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Thank you Almighty.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Dec 4th 2019 at 7:36:26 AM
I can chase the wind, I can race the rain
Valdou, Tarkin, and Palpatine
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Sorry for your loss. 
Sorry for your lost
Tarkin and Palpatine.
So I've begun my first foray into the legendary Vertigo comic Sandman. I can't believe I'm saying this, but... I think Dr. Destiny needs cutting. What he does in that diner is nightmarish in every figurative and literal sense of the word, buuuuuuuuuuut... he seems genuinely upset about the death of his mother earlier in the arc. In fact that's what prompts him to break out of Arkham and go on his rampage in the first place. And we can't invoke Depending on the Writer because it's the exact same arc his worst atrocity's in.
Opinions?
Thanks for the votes, everyone! Here's a writeup on Valdou.
- Complete Monster: Valdou is the leader of a race of mechanical humanoids who sees humans as naturally inferior, leading a coup in the magical land of Paradiso. His ultimate plan is to create a land without any emotions where only machines rule; thousands of human dissenters are captured, brainwashed, or killed in concentration camps. During his search for the seventh princess and the magical tiara, he brainwashes Kilala's friend Erica to retrieve the tiara, then orders his men to shoot her in the head. After dropping his friendly pretense, Valdou shoots Kilala as she reunites with Rei, then captures the prince and plans to torture him into being thoroughly brainwashed, trying to kill Kilala several times. When he uses Princess Sylphy as The Mole, Valdou plans to brainwash her too, and threatens Princess Jasmine's life in the world of Aladdin. His final, most despicable act of cruelty is to set a village on fire, endangering children orphaned under his rule, and mocking Rei over Kilala's apparent death in the blaze.
Edited by lalalei2001 on Dec 4th 2019 at 7:28:22 AM
The Protomen enhanced my life.
to Valdou, Tarkin and Palpatine
Thank you G-Editor.
Here's the update to the entry for the new Jafar:
- Aladdin (2019): Grand Vizier Jafar is much worse here than his animated incarnation. Seeking the Genie's lamp, Jafar attempts to send several prisoners into the Cave of Wonders to retrieve it, resulting in one of the prisoners being killed. Jafar then kills one of his own guards for calling him "second". When Aladdin retrieves the lamp for Jafar, the latter coldly leaves the former to die in the cave, and later throws him into the ocean when he returns as Prince Ali. Upon retrieving the lamp, Jafar becomes Sultan and a powerful Sorcerer, sending Aladdin to a wasteland to die a slow and painful death. He then painfully tortures the Sultan to force Jasmine to marry him just to spite her and the Sultan. When Jasmine and Aladdin steal the lamp from him he attacks them with a giant Iago and a twister, endangering civilians and destroying the Magic Carpet in the process. Upon retrieving the lamp, Jafar declares his intent to conquer several neighboring kingdoms in order to build himself a mighty empire and starts painfully torturing Aladdin too. Upon transforming into a Genie he attempts to destroy Shirabad and spitefully drags Iago into the lamp with him when imprisoned.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Dec 4th 2019 at 7:26:22 AM
HT: I don't remember that. He mentions it to the woman he murdered, but his only interest in his mother seemed to be her getting him Dream's Ruby.
Keep in mind he's basically omnipotent with it and what he can do or perceive and he chooses to use it on petty sadism as opposed to mom.
It's probably open for interpretation, thus why I asked for opinions, but his grief seemed real, in a messed up way, to me. Won't lose sleep (pun not intended) if he goes or stays but I just thought I'd mention it.
Remember him breaking out is also more motivsted by having the ruby then
I'll give it a reread. Haven't been feeling well today so I could have easily gotten confused.
One more edit on Bosley for now (drafted a little differently though and will still be included with the one for Madison):
- Charlie's Angels (2019): John Bosley is Charlie's close friend and collaborator to the Angels who bitterly becomes an Arms Dealer after being forced to retire instead of taking over the agency. He seeks to possess the energy-saving source Callisto so he can turn it into a biological weapon that can induce fatal seizures, which he plans to sell for his own profit, contacting terrorists and crime syndicates as potential buyers. He hires the cold-blooded assassin Hodak to murder whistleblower and future Angel Elena Houghlin and ends up killing Edgar "Bosley" Dessange instead. He then has Elena's boss Peter Flemming killed for not knowing how to work Callisto and attempts to kill Angels Sabina Wilson and Jane Kano by blowing up the agency. He also nearly kills former Angel Rebekah "Boz" by shooting her. He has Hodak threaten both Elena and Alexander Brock for access to Callisto and also threatens Elena's friend and co-worker Langston when she refuses at first. He then attempts to activate Callisto so he can leave Elena and Langston to die.
Thank you SkyCat. Sorry for yours too.
Edited by futuremoviewriter on Dec 4th 2019 at 9:02:51 AM
The Draftsman of Doom
Sorry for your loss, Future.
I lost my paternal grandfather when I was about 8. I still miss him. I plan on naming a son after him if I ever get the chance.
I have a candidate from another film on my watchlist.
What is the work?
Triple Threat is a 2019 action thriller.
A villager loses his wife when a band of mercenaries massacre his village to free their leader; days later an heiress pledges money to charity in order to combat corruption, making her a target of said team of mercenaries, on behalf of a local mobster. Meanwhile, two of the mercenaries have taken up illegal boxing. Each path collides in a heated final confrontation.
The candidate in question is the leader of the mercenaries, Collins.
Who is Collins, and what has he done?
Collins is the leader of the band of mercenaries.After Devereaux, his subordinate, leads a raid on the prison where Collins is being held, Collins proceeds to have his mercenaries wire the village to explode in order to destroy all of the evidence against them, trapping Payu and Long Fei with the prisoners when they protest.
Days later, a mob boss by the name of Su Feng enlists the aid of Collins and his men in order to eliminate an heiress by the name of Tian Xiao Xian, who wants to donate money to combat corruption in Maha Jaya. Collins and his crew proceed to murder a large number of armed personnel outside of the hotel where Tian is being interviewed, failing to kill her. Upon being informed that Payu and Long Fei survived, Collins leads a massacre of the police station in the hopes of eliminating the two.
When the raid ends with Steiner and Mook dead, Collins expresses no care whatsoever, merely complaining about his loss of inventory.
When Collins encounters Jaka, he accepts the latter's offer to act as a mole, figuring he has nothing to lose by doing so.
After tracking Payu and Long Fei throughout the city, Collins receives a video call from Payu. Payu offers Tian in exchange for a hundred thousand dollars and immunity. Suspecting a ruse, Collins hires a large number of gunmen with the intention of killing the defectors, and taking Tian regardless.
Collins Eventually engages in melee combat with Payu and Jaka, and Payu dispatches Collins in close quarters combat after eliminating his hired guns with help from Long Fei and Jaka.
Heinousness?
Collins is directly responsible for most of the carnage in the film. Devereaux may have led the village massacre, but he was doing so to free Collins, and was doing so on Collins' orders. Once Collins is free, the first thing he does is try to kill his fellow prisoners in an explosion. Su Feng, in contrast, is out of focus, and barely does anything. Jaka does lure the mercenaries to the police station in order to attain revenge against them, but he was specifically aiming to attain vengeance against the mercenaries. Any carnage carried out by the other protagonists is largely in self defense against people trying to kill them.
Mitigating Factors?
Aside from claiming to have had a miserable time as a boy scout, which is not played sympathetically, Collins shows no regard for his subordinates or anyone else, and shows no remorse for his actions.
Collins just wants to kill people and make money doing so.
Verdict?
I think he just made the list.
Edited by SkyCat32 on May 24th 2022 at 8:55:31 AM
Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
The wifi here sucks
I just read the first part of the arc and Dee refers to his mother's death in a very neutral, matter-of-fact tone that, to me doesn't indicate any grief.
Collins
Edited by papyru30 on Dec 4th 2019 at 10:07:55 AM
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
to Collins
Concerning Medusa from Soul Eater, her actions are slightly different in both the anime and manga. So how is this for an edit of her writeup?
- Soul Eater: Medusa Gorgon darkens the plot with her introduction. Using her own child, Crona, as a science experiment, Medusa drives him to madness without an ounce of guilt and seeks to resurrect the monstrous Kishin Asura to bask in his destructive power, Medusa coerces two witches into helping her. After her defeat at the hands of Stein, Medusa takes over the body of a little girl, taking advantage of the fact any harm the protagonists attempt upon her would harm the child she possesses. After Maka's kindness to Crona causes him to perform a Heel–Face Turn, Medusa manipulates him into acting as her Mole within the Death Weapon Meister Academy (DWMA) and drive Stein further into insanity. Manipulative, cruel and destructive, Medusa in both the anime and manga wastes no time showing she devotes herself to nothing but spreading misery.
- Manga: In the manga when her older sister, Arachne, is revived, Medusa manipulates the DWMA into helping her defeat Arachnae, claiming she kidnapped Crona to bring Maka to her side. After getting the students to help her defeat Arachnae, Medusa kills her sister and takes her body and reveals to Maka she herself was the one who kidnapped Crona. Driving Crona further into insanity while she has him in her clutches, Medusa purposely gets him to murder her, completing her child's transformation into a psychotic beast to wreak havoc upon the world.
- Anime: The anime depicts Medusa as The Chessmaster who by striking a truce with the DWMA gives them the location of Arachnophobia so that both sides wipe each other out and allow the Kishin and his madness to change the world through her twisted version of evolution. Medusa drives Stein to insanity and abducts to satisfy her twisted obsession with the mad scientist. When Crona and Marie arrive to rescue Stein, Medusa manipulates him into attacking his own allies and then kills her child when he shields Maka from her attack, remarking how Crona was nothing but a failure while doing so.
Does that look alright? If not then it's fine. It's just events happened differently in the anime and her goals and actions are a bit different.
Edited by UltimateDemonBeast65 on Dec 4th 2019 at 9:30:20 AM
The Draftsman of Doom
Maybe create a header, then an entry for Manga, an entry for Anime:
- Soul Eater: Header
- Manga: Entry
- Anime: Entry
Maybe ACW would have a better idea how to split the difference. I said header, not whole entry.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Dec 4th 2019 at 1:05:34 PM
Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
Yes to Valdou, Tarkin and Palpatine.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread