During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Alright, I got it with the batch (they hadn't done it yet).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Anjail
Hello, I posted Lighting for Yu-Gi-Oh! VRAINS a few months ago, but forgot to post more. I want to know how I can make an appointment to discuss him to include him for this trope.
Just a some guy.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
If it's been two weeks since the end of his storyline, feel free to do it whenever.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Lighting been dead for a few months now from what I've heard.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Mr. Zsasz, Eric Chase and Dracula.
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
Sure to Mr. Zsasz, Eric Chase and Dracula.
Reading an old French Wattpad Web Original Fiction... I noticed we have a keeper.
What's the work?
Cinquante Nuances de Rouge (Fifty Shades of Red) is a French-language Web Original Fiction written by Niark-Niark. While the story is currently being rewritten, the original version was finished before the rewrite even started. I'm going to focus on the original version, and once the rewrite is finished, I'll see if our keeper is different enough to remain, well, a keeper.
That said, what's the story?
J. wants to kill 50 people. Why? For kicks. Why 50? Because he wants to try everything. From the revolver to the baseball bat, while not forgetting the wrench, J. wants to see all 50 shades of red.
Do I need to say who's our candidate?
Who is J.? What has he done?
Jacob Berg (A.K.A. J) is the Villain Protagonist of the story, and wants to kill 50 people in different ways For the Evulz and For Science!.
1 : He strangles a cat. He kidnaps a man and later shot him dead.
2 : He stabs to death a woman.
3 : He slices the throat of the woman's husband. He then kidnaps their 4 children.
4 : He beats to death the woman's first child with a baseball bat.
5 : With gasoline, he burns to death the woman's second child.
6 : He runs over two hikers with his car.
7 : He poisons the woman's third child, forcing him to choose between arsenic and belladonna (the child obviously refusing to choose, J. used the belladonna).
8 : In a mountain, he pushes a man, making him fall to his death.
9 : After capturing 4 youths, he beats to death one of them with a wrench.
10 : He starves to death the woman's last child. At first, it seems that he regrets doing so, and seems to sympathizes with the chidl. In truth, however, what he truly regretted was that the death wasn't funny. He wanted a much more violent death.
11 : He boils to death the second youth he captured, before eating him. He didn't enjoy eating him. He seems to dislike cannibalism, but in truth, it's only because he doesn't understand why cannibals eat humans repeatedly.
12 : He puts the third youth in a room he used as a gas chamber.
13 : He depressurizes the room, asphyxiating the last youth. He then captures 6 drug addicts and a muscular man.
14 : He kills the first drug addict by overdosing him.
15 : He drowns the second drug addict.
16 : He dismembers the third drug addict with a chainsaw and lets him bleed out.
17 : He crucifies the fourth drug addict, because he loved Jesus's death so much he kept a Bible with him despite being an atheist and even ripped off the pages showing Jesus's resurrection.
18 : He starves a dog, and then had him maul to death and devour the fifth drug addict. Once the dog outlived his usefulness, he shot him dead.
19 : He kills the muscular man with a shotgun at close range.
20 : Inspired by the vampires' deaths, he stabs to death the sixth drug addict with stakes.
21 : He captures someone and has him getting run over by a train. Only his lower body remained intact.
22 : He attacks another house, killing a teenager by stabbing him in the head with an axe.
23 : He crushes the teen's kid brother by crushing him with a bedside table.
24 : He beats to death the teen's mom with a frying pan, and kidnaps the teen's dad.
25 : He kills one of the teen's siblings by slicing his throat with a sword.
26 : He decapitates another6one of the teen's siblings and forced his father to watch.
27 : He leaves the teen's father, to kill himself.
28 : He attacks an homosexual couple, asphyxiating the first one with a pillow and hanging the second one.
29 : He attacks a bus and captures 19 people. He starts with the driver, tying him outside to the bus's back with a rope before driving, slowly killing the poor guy.
30 : He electrocutes one of his hostages.
31 : He quartered his second hostage.
32 : He whips to death his third hostage. When he was unable to see the guy's pained face, he used lemon juice to make him scream in pain.
33 : He stoned to death his fourth hostage.
34 : He kills his fifth hostage by giving him way too much water and forcing him to drink it all.
35 : He kills his sixth hostage the same way... Just replace water with sand.
36 : He tortures to death his seventh hostage.
37 : He seemingly allows his eighth hostage to flee... Before shooting him dead with a sniper rifle.
38 : He froze to death his ninth hostage.
39 and 40 : he stabs to death his tenth and eleventh hostages with syringes and needles, respectively. The former was the first one to kick the bucket.
41 : He stabs to death his twelfth hostage with a fork.
42 : He strangles his thirteenth hostage.
43 : He buried alive his fourteenth hostage.
44 : He used his fifteenth hostage as target practice for knifes throwing, while making sure the other hostages were forced to watch.
45 : He creates a makeshift bomb, and then blows up his sixteenth hostage with it.
46 : Remember the Joker's pencil magic trick in The Dark Knight? J. imitated him with his seventeenth hostage. Except the Eye Scream. J. preferred to directly aim for the head.
47 : He uses an eyelash curler to rip off his eighteenth hostage's eyes, before leaving her to bleed out.
48 : He beats to death someone with a crowbar.
49 : When two policemen attempted to arrest him, he killed one of them by slamming their car's door on his head. The other one manages to capture him, however. As expected, J. is tried for his multiple murders. He rejects any mental illness, freely admits what he did, and when confronted by his victims' families, he merely replies that they were lucky it was their loved ones instead of themselves.
50 : Sentenced to life in prison, J. decides to kill himself to end his experiments in spectacular fashion.
Heinousness?
Easily sets it. Sole villain. No Asshole Victim to top it off. No one compares. When the media calls him a "Monster" with a capital M, it's hardly undeserved.
Freudian Excuse? Redeeming qualities
He has a Freudian Excuse : he was abused by his parents who constantly told him that he didn't deserve to live. However, he is never treated sympathetically for this, doesn't even tries to uses it as an excuse for what he did, and was already a psychopath to begin with, killing animals when he was a child.
As for redeeming qualities? Any he had were thrown out the window. He's ultimately a sadistic Straw Nihilist who see the entire world as full of guinea pigs for his "experiments" , which he believes he does For Science!. But deep down, he ultimately does it For the Evulz, started to kill because it made him feel more alive.
He claims to liberate his victims, but it's not the case, he just enjoys killing and is extremely sadistic to boot.
He's Laughably Evil, but it's just that, Laughably Evil. His acts themselves are treated completely seriously.
GDV concerns?
None. His sadism and personality is constantly shown through the story.
Verdict?
An easy keeper.
Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Aug 13th 2019 at 8:11:36 PM
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
As long as the story isn't just "depraved person murders people For the Evulz", I'll give a to J.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Eh, that doesn't necessarily mean that the story has enough of a substantial plot. Are there any other characters in the story that have depth, for instance?
Okay. I probably should have asked this question in the first place, but does the story have any kind of point to it besides an evil serial killer murdering people?
Edited by falcontalons on Aug 13th 2019 at 5:39:02 AM
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
As mentioned, he thinks he's a scientist above everyone else, and that the whole world is full of guinea pigs beneath him, useful only for his experiments. It shows through the narration, seen from his point of view.
Other characters aren't as prominent as J. (No Name Given), but they still have a history, and some even shows some parts of personality. Their social status, for example, varies. Their age. A character's origins is even known. They're ultimately, from J.'s viewpoint, nothing but a bunch of guinea pigs, but they still have some depth and aren't just generic victims, here to die because J. wants them dead. For example, a woman went full Mama Bear on J. when he attacked their home, even though it didn't help.
Well, the whole point of the story is J. kills people not only For the Evulz, but also because he's a "scientist", and thus, instead of just killing indiscriminately, he decides to test many ways to kill someone. The "scientist" part is ultimately just as important as the "killing" part. For example, he prefers to avoid choosing children as his guinea pigs because he believes that, due to their lack of maturity, they aren't the best guinea pigs, even though he won't think twice about choosing them if necessary. Thus, the story isn't just about "depraved person murders people For the Evulz", as you put it. Hope I answered your question, but I won't mind if you downvote because of that.
Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Aug 13th 2019 at 2:48:54 PM
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Eric, Dracula and J
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
@Georgie: Yeah, I think I'm going to have to switch to a no with that in mind.
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
@ falcontalons That said, I don't remember that the quality or the point of the story is a necessary criteria, unless it's an explicit case of Ron the Death Eater. As such, I politely disagree with your no.
Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Aug 13th 2019 at 2:47:47 PM
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to J. Sounds like pointless grimdark material.
@Georgie: That's fine, but there is a rule about a story needing to be more than "evil person does evil things."
Emperor Georgie Artémis Enkoom Evulz II
@ bobg Sounds like. Doesn't mean it's actually the case. There are lots of Black Comedy and J. is Laughably Evil, but his acts are treated seriously.
@ falcontalons Hence why I mentioned that the scientist part is just as present as the killing part, and I've given an example. And if a character has all the qualities of a CM, they're a CM. So far, J. fits it all.
Edited by GeorgieEnkoom on Aug 13th 2019 at 2:57:15 PM
J’m’arrête pas tant qu’j’vois pas des lignes sur les moniteurs (Not stoppin 'til I see Flatlines)
Showtime!
to Zsasz and dracula. Cautious yes to J
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
Guys, we've had shameless, immoral, and/or disgusting villain protagonists from dark works approved of before with no problem whatsoever. Wong Chi-hang, Lou Bloom, Jack, and Kenneth Jason Muntz all come to mind.
I'd read the story myself, but I do not know French.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
I'll wait till Tyk learns French and reads it to make sure.
Joking aside, I lean yes.
Lizzid people!
I'm fine with J as well.
I would also like to see how this newly assigned pass-time for Tyk goes but until he does so and weighs in, I'll also give a yea.
@Tyk5919: Those works seem to have some kind of point to them; The Untold Story seems to focus on investigating the Villain Protagonist's crime, Nightcrawler seems to examine how the public's interest in sensational news stories leads to journalists resorting to unethical methods, The House that Jack Built seems to be an examination of a killer's psyche, and Migraine seems to be an examination of what a sociopath might do for a quick buck.
Back again... And sure to all of the candidates I missed and after reconsideration? Fine with RWBY duo getting up
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."