During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
To Sinestro
Filthy casual
Sinestro
Hey guys, i have been interested in this Thread for quite a while, and after much thinking, I decided to join the Complete Monster Thread. I really look forward to the many discussions and effort posts that take place on this thread, and I hope we can get along, as I don't wanna be a pain to anyone. I'm currently trying to figure out my first effort post candidate and quote, may end up doing the quote first, may take a while, but I hope it will be the worth the wait. That said, I can't wait to discuss future effort posts with you all.
Oh, and before I forget, to Surtur, Bronislav, and Sinestro.
Edited by Michealthehero21 on Jan 19th 2019 at 3:25:55 AM
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
@Michaelthehero Welcome! Hopefully you can enjoy joining this thread.
Anyways, second candidate from Elseworlds that I'm unsure of:
What's the Work
This Elseworlds comic that I currently cover right now is actually called Superman: Speeding Bullets. What if both Batman and Superman origins combined altogether? Then you get this comic of course! Well, the story is about Kal-El who instead getting adopted by the farmers who raise him, he got adopted by the rich Wayne family and they nurture them nicely until the eventful day where they got shot and Kal-El's perception of the world changed and become a vigilante known as Batman.
Now since the story is about Batman & Superman origins combined altogether, guess who is the candidate.
Who is He/What Has He Done
No shocker... The candidate in question? Was revealed to be Lex Luthor who got a backstory and traits like the Joker. Now, prior to the main story a year ago, he survived the industrial accident that nearly costs his life which resulted on him seclude himself from the outside world. However, Luthor then got his business back again and tries to negotiate the buyout of Wayne Enterprises in which Kal-El, known as Bruce Wayne in this comic, turned down Luthor's offers which causes him to pisses off.
Oh! And it was also revealed that he was the guy behind the robbery of Bruce Wayne's mansion and due to the failed robbery, Lex then executes most of them. After this, he then offers Lois Lane a ride home and seems to be attracted with Lois despite his name being tarnished thanks to Lois to the point that Luthor had to buy the Daily Planet and fire the head reporter, Perry White. When Lois refuses his offers, Luthor then throws Lois onto the street which resulted on her getting attacked by thugs.
Onto the next day, Luthor then goes to the Gotham Gazelle, reveals himself to be the Joker, attacks Bruce and then kidnaps Lois. He then reveals his masterplan towards Lois that he intends to bring his darkness into the world for everyone to see and make Gotham as his kingdom and Lois his queen.
It was revealed that Luthor uses all of his fortune to attempt a total military takeover to Gotham which causes hundreds of deaths in order to make his state known as Jokerania and plans to do the same to other city known as Bayonne in the next day. Fortunately, Batman stops him and took Luthor to prison. Have fun in there Lex-Joker hybrid!
Freudian Excuse/Mitigating Factors
Well, this is the tricky part: So yes, I'm not gonna downplay that due to the industrial accident that he had, Luthor said that the old him was dead and resulted on him getting lost interest and sat like a lump and watching endless hours of television. This could be serve as a legitimate FE and could jumble his agency...
Except the fact that even before the accident, it was stated that he was a man with no respect for the law and he only interested with power and will do anything to get it. That and the fact that Luthor saw this accident as the new beginning of him being a bigger bastard than before and he just needed something to unleash his true sociopathic self. So yeah... I'm torn on this one.
Heinous Standard
Yeah, this version of Batman is kind of merciless and brutal towards the criminals of Gotham considered he's a vigilante after all. But even then, I think Luthor is miles worse than him considered his attempt at attacking the cities in order to make a new state of Jokerania for him to rule which causes hundreds of deaths so yeah...
Final Verdict
Unsure on this one, I'll let you guys decide on his inclusion. I understand if you have problems with him qualifying as a CM due to his FE and all
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Jan 19th 2019 at 7:41:23 PM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Justice for Skywarp
Lex Joker
@Elfen Lied Fan 90 Thanks! Hopefully I will. As for Lex-Joker, I'm gonna lean because while it kinda looks like a FE, it doesn't really justify his past or later actions, at least, in my opinion.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'll lean yes to Luthor-Joker. I'll read the comic later today to be sure, before I do Joker's effortpost. I guess if approved Lex will go to both the Batman and Superman pages?
Edited by ACW on Jan 19th 2019 at 7:46:08 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Arch-Douchebag
I believe the Forged Destiny page is listing unauthorised Complete Monster examples. Unless I'm mistaken, I ask for the permission to purge them out of existence.
Apathy is Death. Worse than Death, because at least a rotting corpse feeds beasts and insects.
to Laslo Bronislav, Surtur, Sinestro and Lex-Joker.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Permission granted.
I'll look into Lex Joker myself before I vote.
Ok, everyone, it took a bit of searching, I think I found a quote for the Complete Monster quotes page:
"Maria, we do not dress them up for Halloween. We do not call them "honey" or kiss boo-boos. Don't think of them as children. Think of them as things with copyrights and patents. Comprende?" -Dr. Zander Rice, Logan.
So, what do you guys think about this quote? I would love to see your thoughts on it, and I would greatly appreciate the feedback. Oh, as for the unapproved Forge Destiny examples, cut them.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
@Scraggle Don't really mind if he qualifies or not unlike Sinestro which I saw him as a pretty solid keep. Considered we have a lot incarnations of Joker... Eh...
Also, purge the Forged Destiny example but seems from the judge of the entry, they look like a solid keeper
Not feeling with that quote. But probably can work as an Abusive Parents I guess?
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Jan 19th 2019 at 8:39:06 PM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
PM the troper(s) who added the Forged Destiny examples.
I'm not sure if that quotes's really CM material (it DOES work for "It" Is Dehumanizing, the quotes page of which already has it).
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
@ACW True, that is a good point. I guess the quote is not really CM material when you put it that way. Nevertheless, thanks for the feedback. :)
Bronislav, Surtr, Sinestro, Lex
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Sinestro and Lex-Joker.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Goku Black
Sinestro and Lex-Joker
Bronislav
Sure to Sutur I guess. Been also wanting to revisit the Yostverse!Ross, it's just I can't think of anything new for his case.
Sinestro.
Lex Naiper.
Also just did a vote tally on La and what we got is...
9
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
4
Abstain: 1
- Hellraiser III: Hell on Earth: From the comic book adaptation of the film, Pinhead Unbound is given a different origin than that of the film, a demon that has existed well before it possessed Eliot Spencer and served as the black pope of Hell. After he and Eliot were separated, Pinhead was bound in a statue before being awakened and feeding on a woman seduced by JP Monroe. Offering Monroe a place at his right hand in rebelling against Leviathan and ruling his own Hell he'd make on Earth, Pinhead later tempts Monroe's ex-girlfriend into sacrificing him. Upon his freedom, Pinhead slaughters his way through Monroe's nightclub and turns some of his victims into his new army to cause murder and torment to those who cross them. Pinhead torments a priest for his faith, mockingly declaring himself "the way" and sets his sights on Joey Summerskill. He briefly tricks Joey with a vision of her father before stating his intent and attempt to personally torture Joey forever before he is forcibly rebonded to Spencer.
- The Legend of Tarzan: Queen La is the mystical queen of Opar, who created and enslaved a race of leopard men from mundane leopards. La has a bad habit of incinerating her followers who cross of fail her, and history of killing men who reject her. When Professor Porter is brought to her, she decides to have him sacrificed before she falls for Tarzan, attempts to kill Jane and later tries to sacrifice Tarzan for rejecting her. In her next appearance La's leopard men start to Rebel against her and try to place Jane as the new queen to free them; after La gets back into power, she executes some of the leopard men but plans on doing something special for the rebels leader - attempting to feed him to a monster. During the next battle La incinerates more of the leopard men, and when Tarzan is seemingly killed, mocks Jane about it. Despite La's death, her spirit later returns and possesses Jane in an attempt to get her power back. During the final fight against her, La possesses Tarzan and muses at the prospect of killing his beloved wife using his own body.
Goku Black
Uh I think Ross probably doesn't count there. I abstained the first time but I think there are some issues in that he never really does anything to stand out from the others especially since there are now 4 examples there rather than just one.
Btw acw Surtur will go at the bottom of the current tree as he appeared after all the others showed up.
Also sure to La.
Edited by miraculous on Jan 19th 2019 at 6:22:23 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
And another work on my list of works I regret didn't propose earlier I guess?
Anyways, on-topic, my writeups will come tomorrow except for the Lex-Joker. I'll wait for Scraggle to hold his final vote.
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Jan 19th 2019 at 9:23:50 PM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Goku Black
I bring news.
It seems that the Warner Brothers. Boss has indicated that the DCEU will be doing more director driven and stand-alone works rather than a shared universe like what they first wanted. So it seems justice League part 2 may not be a thing (That and the first movie bombed at the cinema).
Ok, as pointed out by ACW, the quote I had for Rice was more suited to the "It is dehumanizing" trope, so I decide to find another quote, and I think I found just the one... Maybe:
"Reyes: I have to know. What did you think of Agustin Allende, John?
John Marston: I saw enough to know he ain't a good man.
Reyes: It is bad enough he beats the people he swore to protect. But it is worse that he enjoys it.
John Marston: Something must have made him that way.
Reyes: Cowardice is what made him that way, my friend. He talks about economic reform, about how this is a new golden age for Mexican people. But look around you! The people are poorer than ever." -Abraham Reyes describing Colonel Agustin Allende's cruelty to John Marston, Red Dead Redemption.
I think this one is more CM material, but what do you guys think?
Edited by Michealthehero21 on Jan 19th 2019 at 7:06:47 AM
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
JL actually lost money? Didn't know that; I thought it just didn't succeed to expectations.
Goku Black
Here.
- Box Office Bomb: With a budget estimated at $300 million ($500 million counting marketing, interest expense, and residuals) Justice League is among the most expensive movies ever made,note and so needed to gross a massive amount just to break even ($750 million at the highest estimate, $650 million at the lowest). It opened in a surprisingly competitive season on the release calendarnote and its opening domestic weekend of $93.8 million, likely due to negative publicity from Batman v Superman and Suicide Squad and its notoriously troubled production, was only about half of the former and the lowest of any DCEU film thus far, combined with a lackluster promotional campaign and another critical backlash after a long embargo. Industry analysts are already predicting a $50 to $100 million net loss for Warner Brothers. The film has earned the dubious title of "the most successful box office bomb ever", as while its gross ($658 million) would be a nice success for a standard summer blockbuster with a production budget in the $140-180 million range, the power of the Batman and Superman brands plus the extremely inflated budget due to mandated reshoots led to far, far higher expectations than what were ultimately fulfilled, leading to the loss.
