During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Bronislav.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Brony Slave
The Unknown Unknown
Broni
Bronislav
BTW, about that unapproved entry I posted on the last page....I don't wish to sound pushy or annoy anyone, but I'm getting a bit annoyed myself that no one is vetting these entries.
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
Bronislav.
The character sounds nasty enough. Anyone PM the one who added it?
I don't know. The troper who added it has apparently not been active since October 26, 2018.
Mmhmm, yes to Bronislav.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Shoot a PM just in case, but delete it from the YMMV. As a rule of thumb, if you can't find a villain on any of the Complete Monster sub-pages (you should be able to double check by clicking the "Related" tab on the top of the work page and going Ctrl+F to find the keyword "Monster:" looking at the related page you linked last page shows it's unapproved) delete it and send a PM.
Edited by Scraggle on Jan 18th 2019 at 9:18:55 AM
To Bronisov
Wild Child
Speaking of unapproved entries, there's this one on YMMV.Dragaera that was actually brought up back in November, but then just....forgotten, I guess.
- Complete Monster: Although Vlad meets a lot of nasty people, Orbahn from Jhegaala deserves special mention for having an entire innocent family slaughtered, merely on the suspicion that the new arrival in Burz might be carrying a grudge over a decades-old dispute.
Edit: And found another one on YMMV.Dr Frost.
- Complete Monster: Moon. His affable demeanor and seemingly altruistic goals make him a well loved, respected, and famed psychologist. But he uses people for his experiments, and has talked people into committing suicide without batting an eye, making him a psychological murderer. He also treats suicide like a game, and isn’t above indirectly have people murdered.
Edited by Clown-Face on Jan 18th 2019 at 8:27:36 AM
Why so serious?
I'll check Frost out
Lizzid people!
for that Holmes baddie.
I'm Sad Frogerson.
Okay, I saw a few people recently bring my candidate up in the past week, and I felt he was worthy of an EP; especially since I covered the show on the Magnificent Bastard thread a few months ago.
Hailing from The Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes comes a villain who only made a handful of appearances, but probably has the biggest bodycount of the show. He's mean, he's red, and he's about as big as a house A MOUNTAIN!!!
Who Is He and What Does He Do?
Surtur is lord of the Fire Demons and ruler of the hellish realm of Muspelheim. He was sealed away many years ago by Odin, but it was prophesied that he would return one day and burn every realm to ashes during Ragnarok. His name was feared across Asgard, to the point where even Loki dared not to incur his wrath during his conquest of the Nine Realms. However, when Loki had the Masters of Evil use the Norn Stones to summon his forces to Earth, Baron Zemo stole the one that was linked to Muspelheim to use against the Enchantress. This weakened the seal that had contained Surtur and allowed him to break fear from the bonds that had contained him for centuries.
Surtur's first stop was Nidavellir to retrieve fragments of the Twilight Sword the dwarves had been holding on to. Upon retrieving his sword, Surtur slaughtered most of Nidavellir's population and burned their forges to the ground. During Amora's fight with the Avengers and the Masters of Evil, Wonder Man destroyed the last Norn Stone and transported her to Muspelheim. Surtur found her and declared she would serve him now, whether she wanted to or not.
Amora was placed under Surtur's control and was sent to do his bidding. Surtur and his army traveled to the planet Korbin, and had his Fire Demons capture Korbinites by the hundreds for his own purposes. He would use the nearby star as a forge to repair the Twilight Sword, causing it go supernova. Korbin was destroyed in the blast and this nearly wiped out all of the Korbinites. Only a handful survived in suspended animation onboard the Skuttlebutt, protected by Beta Ray Bill. Surtur sent Amora and the Fire Demons to track down the Skuttlebutt and bring the surviving Korbinites back to him. Thor, Bill, and Sif were able to repel Surtur's forces and save the Korbinites. In a moment of lucidity, Amora begged Thor to kill her before Surtur took control of her again. But Surtur possessed Amora and taunted Thor, claiming she was beyond his help now before leaving. Meanwhile, Surtur finished putting the Twilight Sword back together.
In his final appearance, Amora tried to recruit Loki's help in destroying Thor and the Avengers. After he failed, she reported back to Surtur and they prepared to plant the seeds that would lead to Ragnarok. ... And then the show was cancelled, the Surtur subplot never got any resolution, and the series was replaced with Avengers Assemble. Hooray, evil goes unpunished once again!
Redeeming Qualities?
Freudian Excuse?
Surtur was brought up before in this thread, and there were a few reasons why he was rejected. One reason that was brought up was that he was Made of Evil, and therefore had no agency. Yeah, I don't what show the thread was watching back then. There's nothing in the show that says Surtur doesn't have moral agency. Surtur's the only Fire Demon to show signs of sentience, but there's nothing that explicitly says his race is Always Chaotic Evil. We don't really know why Surtur wants to start Ragnarok or what he wanted with the Korbinites, but he's shown the capacity to form deals with lesser beings, even when they come at a high cost.
Heinousness?
Another reason I saw Surtur was downvoted was because it was claimed his crimes fell into Offscreen Villainy. Again, I have to believe this was because the thread had different standards at the time. We don't see Surtur attack Nidavellir, but we do see the aftermath. The skeletons of dozens of dwarves are shown burning, and there's even a few skulls impaled upon pikes. The only reason they didn't show the attack is because this is a superhero cartoon aimed for children. His attack on Korbin is shown via Beta Ray Bill's flashback. We see the Fire Demons terrorizing the Korbinites, and we get to see Korbin destroyed onscreen. We don't see the civilians burn with their planet, but we do see the aftermath of Beta Ray Bill trying to protect the last remaining members of his race from Surtur's forces.
In terms of body-count, Surtur easily surpasses most of the show's villains. He basically commits genocide against two races and plans to burn most of Nine Realms to the ground. Only Galactus has a higher body-count, and he only devours worlds to survive. Surtur does it because he can. The final argument I saw against him was that he was more of Generic Doomsday Villain, and... it's hard not to see their point. Surtur doesn't have a lot of dialogue, mostly works behind the scenes, and isn't given much of a reason for why he's doing the things he does. Now, how much of this can be blamed on his story-arc getting cut short is unclear, as Surtur was clearly being set-up as the big threat for season three. He's not given much time to develop a personality, but we do see a trace of it. He possesses Amora and taunts Thor about he can't save her, and he didn't trust Loki to defeat Thor for him. It's not much, but it's something.
Verdict?
This is a tough one. Surtur definitely has the crimes to count, but does he have the personality? He leans very heavily into Generic Doomsday Villain territory; but again, I'm not sure how much of the show's premature cancellation played into that. He has traces of a sadistic side, but it may not be enough. I'll leave him to the mercy of the thread. Because that's what heroes do.
Edited by chasemaddigan on Jan 18th 2019 at 1:05:17 PM
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
to Surtur.
Bronislav and Surtur. Man, I wish EMH got a comic continuation.
Also, I reserved Doom Room.
Edited by DemonDuckofDoom on Jan 18th 2019 at 10:44:38 AM
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Surtr
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
Imma just get this out the way now 'fore I head to bed.
Dinosaucers (2018 reboot): Rex, unlike his original incarnation, is far deadlier and taken much more seriously. Longing to preserve his tyrannical rule on the planet Reptilon, Rex sets his sights on planet Earth to fuel his slave labor. He and his armada invade Earth and sack various major cities, causing wanton destruction and killing thousands in the process. When Rex realizes that his rule over Reptilon is in jeopardy, he simply forces his invaders to speed up their hostile takeover, and they start kidnapping humans to use as a food source and siphoning Earth's natural resources. After Rex's plans are thwarted and he's coaxed into making a truce, he decides to force four members of the Secret Scouts to head back to Reptilon with him, or else he'll resume his invasion and destroy the entire world.
I write stories and shiz. You can read them here.
Goku Black
Bronislav and Surtur (Now I'm curious about his comic version)
I believe Lighty's covering Mir.
Filthy casual
Bronislav and Surtur
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Got another Elseworlds comic candidate to propose
What's the Work
The comic in question is called Batman: The Darkest Knight. Despite the title, it is about well, Batman becoming a Green Lantern. After he ended up being depressed due to his disastrous attempt at crimefighting, Bruce Wayne/Batman ended up meeting with a Green Lantern alien named Abin Sur who gave him the power ring. As a result, Batman was given the power of Green Lantern and was ordered to stop another Green Lantern who went rogue thanks to the power he was given to him. And the Green Lantern in question? Meet Sinestro everyone!
Who is He/What Has He Done
Well, Sinestro is the wielder of the Green Lantern Ring of Planet Korugar in Space Sector 1417 and needless to say, he got drunk with the power from his Green Lantern ring and become a dictator of his planet and also use said Ring for his personal gain. This resulted on the Guardians ordered Batman to stop Sinestro's tyranny once and for all in which Batman succeeded and Sinestro getting banished into Qward. Happy ending isn't it?
Unfortunately, during his banishment, an evil person from Planet Qward decided to help Sinestro by giving him a yellow power ring and as a result, Sinestro then went into planet earth in order to take a revenge against Batman due to his banishment.
In planet Earth, he then went into the Gotham police office in order to gain more information of Batman and then kills the chief officer, James Gordon, because he need to get rid of the witness. After he gain more information, he then invade the home of the robber who shoots Batman's parents 25 years ago, Joe Chill, and then began to attack his wife and then absorbs Joe's mind which resulted on their minds merge with each other.
After Batman tries to stop Sinestro, Sinestro then runs away and then turns Harvey Dent and Selina Kylie into his personal subordinate. One become a Star Sapphire and one become a Two Face space version. Take a guess?
After Batman defeats Selina and Harvey, in the meantime, Sinestro then destroys several planets in the other sectors including a planet called Regor VI in order to incriminate Batman and then getting stripped from his role as a Green Lantern. After this, he then attacks the Batcave along with his cronies which resulted on Batman's butler, Alfred, getting injured and then tampers with Batman's power source when he become a green lantern. Unfortunately, he then goes away with his crimes but Batman still vows himself to protect the Earth and hunt down Sinestro.
Freudian Excuse/Mitigating Factors
Nope. The reason why he attacked Joe in the first place is because he ended up making his greatest nemesis who foiled his evil deeds but Sinestro decides to be cool with that and then merges with Joe because why not as he loves with his carnage and he treats both Harvey Dent and Selina as his subordinates. Nothing more nothing less. Aside for that, nope.
Heinous Standard
This comic is an Elseworlds story so it took place in other universe. In this comic, Sinestro is the only Big Bad and he sets it so yeah...
Final Verdict
You'll decide
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Bronislav. Written by Ralph E. Vaughan, who also did the collection with Alathon.
Hmm, I'll lean a slight yes to Surtur. Voiced by Rick D. Wasserman, who interestingly also voiced Thor in the same series. His second CM after Starcraft's Amon.
EDIT: Sinestro as well. Looks like it's actually called In Darkest Knight.
Edited by ACW on Jan 19th 2019 at 4:41:10 AM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
New EP, and thanks to Scraggle for this one...
What's the work?
Sherlock Holmes and the Terror out of time is a short work where sailor India Jack Neville meets an unfortunate end, dropping a package at the feet of the greatest detective ever....pursued by eldritch horrors as well as a wicked occultist, Holmes must keep the package, a dark idol, safe from them and protect London...and the man behind it? Laslo Bronislav.
Who is Bronislav?
An man so wicked even Aleister Crowley calls him the devil, Bronislav had contrived to have the idol brought his way, heedless of the calling of the Orms, serpentine nightmares who have now attacked London shores and piled up the bodies, while seeing the death of India Jack. With the idol in Holmes' hands, a furious Bronislav allies with one of the late Moriarty's former men, an Irishman named Mcbane and begins hunting down the idol, manipulating the Lord Whitecliff and steadily eliminating those in his way with eldritch horrors and more mundane means.
Even worse is Bronislav learns of an Irish separatist plot to bomb the heck out of London and decides to let it go through to make things easier. Through his henchmen, he starts piling up the bodies, killing about half a dozen men and then orders all loose ends eliminated, demanding Mcbane murder one proxy while eliminating Lord Whitecliff as well. Hellbent on recovering the M'Tollo idol that the package contained, Bronislav plans to become an eldritch god with the power of the idol, and is known with a horrific reputation. Aleister Crowley's bad rep, as he confesses to Holmes, is more a product of careful showmanship, but Bronislav? Tends to kill people for real, and fully intends on more.
Finally deciding to divest himself of his losses, he has Mcbane eliminated and then his loyal servant Jenson? He summons demons to eat the man alive, including his soul just to dispose of a tool that's outlvied its usefulness. To take advantage of the bombing chaos, he plans to fill all London with blood if need be, storming out to obtain the idol as the monstrous Orms come for it. Luring him into a trap, Sherlock uses the idol to catch Bronislav and the orms and has some of the dynamite detonated with the door sealed, killing Bronislav and hopefully the monsters....except one, as the epilogue reveals, survives and ends by swimming back into the ocean with the dark idol...
So mitigating qualities?
A standalone story, and with everything Bronislav is prepared to allow, everything he's indirectly reponsible for, and the half dozen corpses he personally stacks? I'd say he makes it. As for redeeming qualities, the narrative goes out of its way to point out he has absolutely none. Eliminating his loyal manservant is explicitly stated to be just disposing of a tool that's outlived its usefulness and he sees no other being as existing with the same importance as himself.
Conclusion?
Not the worst evil occultist, but methinks bad enough.