During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
To Derica and Blue Blood
Goku Black
Alright from one of my favourite YA series ever and something I grew up with. Heres' an ep.
So whats the work?
The CHERUB Series is a British series about teenage spies, in the same vein as Alex Rider and Young Bond. It centres around a secret organisation, only known as CHERUB, which takes young orphans (usually not older than about twelve, depending on how young they look) and trains them to become spies. The organisation has been in existence since shortly after WW2, and at the time of the books, it has several hundred agents.
The main characters are James Adams, a Jerk with a Heart of Gold and a deliberate parody of James Bond, and his more mature and responsible little sister, Lauren Adams. Other CHERUB agents and staff also play a major role throughout the series.
The series can be considered something of a deconstruction of the teenage spy series, as it takes great care to consider the repercussions of the Cherubs being teenagers, and hence not always particularly responsible.
It is also notable for its use of fairly realistic criminals, having drug-dealers, arms-smugglers and animal-rights terrorists instead of the Super Villain opponents of Alex Rider and Young Bond.
So book 7, "The Fall"
When an MI 5 mission goes disastrously wrong, James Adams needs all of his skills to get out of Russia alive.
Meanwhile, his sister Lauren is on her first solo mission trying to uncover a brutal human trafficking operation.
And when James does get home, he finds that his nightmare is just beginning.
So whoose the villain and what have they done ?
So the Big Bad of this book Dennis Obden is super generic for this series being a standard Corrupt Politician (and not even the worst as that title goes to Malaysian Prime minsiter Tan Abdullah from Shadow Wave who used the 2004 Asian Tsunami as a pretence to demolsih peoples homes and take over entire villages under the pretnse of "safety" for the residnces.) but the secondary villains are another story.
So in the beginning of the book, a ferry has a weird accident and hecne the cops end up there.The people on board quickly leave but the cops find a a young russian girl nammed Anan onboard who was accidently left behind. They discover that she and other girls that were there but taken are victims of a Human Trafficking ring which kidnaps young girls freom eastern europe and sells them as Sex Slaves in the UK and other locales.
So CHERUB sends young agent Laura to befriedn Laura and just get some information (I should note. It was a low risk mission as she was just supposed to befriend her and get some informatioN but things go terribly wrong). So two men (Keith and Roman) kidnap Anna and lauren since they tarced a call and were supposed to get Anna back. Keith is you see a Serial Rapist whoose boss Abby occasionally gives him young woman to rape. So they takle tjhem to a compund which Abby runs. Abby is the leader of said ring and has girls whoose ages range from 11 to 21 sold as sex slaves or forced into prostituion for her clients.
Laura whoose twelve by the way is taken by Keith so that he can rape her. Lauara though has a knife and when he tries that she stabs him in...crown jewels which takes him out as he kneeels over in pain.
So Laura launches a sort of revolution amonmg the girls here and takes down Abby and cre with the police carting them off to prison.
Mitigating factors
No. No.
These guys are up there with Ralph "The Fuhrer' Donn Igtion and Hassam Bin Hassam as some of the most repulsive villains in the series with nothing resembling a redeeming quality.
Heinous standards
Sex crimes are very rare for this series with the only other rapist I know off being Leonid Armanov (Whoose listed already). So I'd say pass.
Now Abby since she's the leader is an easy keeper but I'd say Keith is good as well since off all of Abby's goons. He's the one with the most onscreen crimes being an explcit Serial Rapist of woman and pedophile.
Conclusion?
Edited by miraculous on Dec 12th 2018 at 9:15:01 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
All of the candidates I've missed.
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Sure on Abby and Keith. The EP feel rather jumbled so I didnt understand whats going on. Anyways, do they warrant a separate writeup or not in your opinion mir?
also, Tan doesnt count due to flunks in heinousness right?
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Dec 13th 2018 at 12:20:12 AM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Goku Black
There in like 12 pages. Not really much to say.
Uh just give them one write-up.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Tan loves his children and flunks to Hassam and Donnington whove done worse despite having less resources
Edited by miraculous on Dec 12th 2018 at 9:21:08 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Makes sense.
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Abby and Keith.
Gentle Laborer
to the previous candidates
Quick question: Was Christabella from the Silent Hill movie adaptation ever properly proposed? I can't seem to find her.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Dec 12th 2018 at 3:24:47 PM
Abby and Keith
Lizzid people!
Abby and Keith.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Goku Black
What about Abby ? she's the leader
Edited by miraculous on Dec 12th 2018 at 2:31:50 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
to Abaddon, Agnes Waterhouse (wow, from the premise I knew she would be bad, but I never expected her to be that bad), Amadeus Blueblood, Artus Greenhand, Derica Mueller, Abby and Keith.
Okay, that's got to be the most proposals with the same first letter in 24 hours, this forum has ever seen.
I said I was watching a Netflix show to see if it had any possible qualifiers, and I believe I've found one.
What's the Work?
Hilda is a Netflix show based on a graphic novel series by Luke Pearson. It follows a blue-haired girl named Hilda and she and her friends go solving supernatural problems. Most of the creature aren't truly evil, others have good reason to be mean, and still others are left too ambiguous to count. However, there is one character I've found to be pretty nasty, and ironically, said character isn't a (literal) monster.
Who is She? What Has She Done?
Victoria Von Gale from Episode 10 (The Storm) is a meteorologist whom Hilda idolizes and whose broadcasts she never misses. Hilda is listening to her broadcasts one rainy day when it suddenly starts snowing. Hilda is delighted, but the Raven isn't, and goes to her house for warmth. Worse yet, the road is blocked off with snow, and Johanna can't get home. Just then, thunder appears, causing Hilda to suspect something wrong, because Victoria never said anything about thunder. She turns on the radio, but is unable to get a good signal, and hears Victoria say something about technical difficulties. Hilda begins to think something bad is happening and demands they go to the weather station.
The Raven turns into his Thunderbird form to take Hilda and David to the weather station. They hear sounds that the Raven dismisses as an argument between weather spirits. When they reach the weather station, Hilda opens a window and sneaks in, with David and the Raven following. It takes a while, but they later find Victoria looking out the window through a telescope. Victoria acts surprised to see Hilda, David, and the Raven, but claims everything is fine, and gives them visitor stickers, a key ring, and a giant pencil. She then shows the trio around her lab and how everything works. Suddenly, a beeping sound emits, but when the Raven asks what it is, Victoria claims it's nothing. David opens a door to a room, but Victoria claims it's her bedroom and a bit of a mess and locks it. She takes them to the observatory, but accidentally turns on a storm. She manages to fix her mistake, but David asks about the lever she pushed. Victoria tries to deny it, but then the Raven pulls another lever and creates a rain cloud above the station. Victoria shuts it off and tries to distract them with coffee (which David and the Raven don't like). It's then that Victoria confesses that her instruments control the weather instead of merely predicting it. She asks them to imagine what would happen if they could control the weather and make it work for them. She later goes on a bit of a rant that the atmosphere only truly answers to the weather spirits and says she found a way to lure one and learn from it, but it worked too well. The Raven asks her how she managed, but she just says it's not important and that when they meet, two weather spirits get into an argument and love to debate, but dozens cause a storm. Hilda tells her to stop the storm, but Victoria says she isn't sure that her equipment can take it. After a pep talk from Hilda, Victoria decides to create an air current to blow the storm away. Working together, she and Hilda create an explosion to stop the storm, but it doesn't work. Hilda suggests something else.
Hilda has the Raven turn into a Thunderbird and carry her to the clouds to talk to the weather spirits. The Raven gets the spirits' attention by letting out a huge burst of electricity. While Hilda is talking to the spirits, David distracts Victoria by asking for more coffee and then grabs her keys. He sneaks into her room and makes a horrible discovery (which will be covered in just a moment). When they return, Victoria is impressed to hear that Hilda and the Raven calmed down the spirits by talking to them and says it will be invaluable for the next time. However, a spirit who has forgotten what she was going to say suddenly remembers when she sees Victoria's lab and goes on a rampage. The Raven turns into his Thunderbolt form to carry David away, but Hilda stays behind to try to save her idol. It's then that David reveals that the room they ventured into is not a bedroom, and gives Hilda the keys. Hilda unlocks the door, ignoring Victoria's pleas, and finds that Victoria has been keeping a child spirit to manipulate the other spirits. Victoria claims she can explain when Hilda calls her out on it, but Hilda refuses to listen and goes to free the spirit. Victoria tries to hold her back, but Hilda breaks free of her ex-idol's grasp and releases the spirit to its mother, destroying the lab in the process. Victoria flees to a bus on a wire, but is forced to watch as her lab crumbled to pieces.
None.
Redeeming Qualities?
None. She does not care about the suffering she caused to the weather spirits, and tries to hold Hilda back, claiming that Hilda doesn't know what she had to do to get it.
Heinous Standard?
Not all that high. The Marra simply give people nightmares. The House in the next episode tries to keep its occupants in, but doesn't actually show sentience. The Black Hound causes destruction, but ultimately turns out to be not so bad. Victoria Von Gale, however, is not a supernatural creature, and manages to go all out with her resources.
Verdict?
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
A bit conflicted but.... to Victoria upon hearing the arguments for her. I was thinking of her but didn't think a full yes til seeing the EP.
Edited by Kylotrope on Dec 12th 2018 at 10:59:28 AM
Things are really about to get Fun around here
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Victoria. Fails the baseline standard and her arc isn't remotely over.
what User said.
Goku Black
Victoria
Sounds kinda generic. I'm not seeing anything particularly bad here.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Gentle Laborer
Huge to Victoria.
Aside from being super generic, i'm not even sure if she could be called a Monster, as her motivations are not exactly selfish.
Edited by TheMadCr0w on Dec 12th 2018 at 5:10:42 PM
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
I think kidnapping a child cloud. Experimenting on the poor thing(to the point it was scared when Hilda found it afraid it would get hurt again) and being apathetic to the Chaos the action causes pushes her a bit over for me. And...I'm sorry where is it indicated she'll come back later?
Edited by Kylotrope on Dec 12th 2018 at 11:10:55 AM
Things are really about to get Fun around here
It's nasty. It's not a CM
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
Hmm...Alrighty. Oh well.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Lizzid people!
Victoria.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]")
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]")
Looks like it was actually Jack C. Harris & Jose Delbo, though Gail DID possibly create this one
.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts