During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Iosefka, Azazel and Verona.
The MILF Virus
Azazel and Verona
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
yea on Azazel and Verona...
Man, I kind of wish I cover more of the RPG Maker games other than Mystery Files of Detective Inaba, The Room and Elevator Ritual. They look fun and not sure who I want to cover in those type of games. As far as I recall, the only RPG Maker games examples that are not negotiable in my case are Ellen and Barclyss and I rest my case.
Still wished if anyone want to recommend me those games :/
The only thing that I will possibly cover is The Witch's Heart and the sequel of Detective Inaba. But don't know what else to cover
Edited by ElfenLiedFan90 on Dec 5th 2018 at 5:28:44 PM
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to Adams confirmed.
Imposter, as we see enough it seems.
Ophanimon.
Azazel & Verona.
Mir: There's also Bera & Gora, from Helheim. Both Wicked Witches who hate each other.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Barb(Its a thread joke you wouldn't get it)
Also if no one else minds I'd like to reserve the Undertale Fan series Underverse...one villain there...has caught my interest.
Things are really about to get Fun around here
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Azael
Verona
@CM who hate each other: Griffith and Ganishka? Anyone?
@Profile Pic: Yeah, is Thorn, Dragon-in-Chief and Omnicidal Maniac from The Caligula Effect.
Edited by KazuyaProta on Dec 5th 2018 at 6:55:46 AM
Watch me destroying my country
Azael and Verona
Tweaking Wetzler.
- 24 Hours to Live: Wetzler is the ruthless CEO of Red Mountain, and a man obsessed with "changing the face of warfare". In order to perfect a procedure where a dead person can be brought Back from the Dead, Wetzler routinely has innocent villagers kidnapped and subjected to cruel experiments, killing at least 70 men, women, and children in the name of science. When one of his men sells him out to Interpol, Wetzler orders him killed, and when Travis Conrad fails to kill the witness, Wetzler attempts to kill him as well. Instigating an attack that kills the witness, cops, and civilians alike, Wetzler has Interpol agent Lin's young son kidnapped, and when confronted by Conrad, he reveals that he was the one that had Conrad's wife and child murdered, as he believes "a man with no family has nothing to lose". A callous psychopath with no sense of loyalty to anyone, Wetzler admits his only code is everybosy doing whatever he wants.
I didn't change much, just added a page link and fixed the end paraphrase.
Eternal Twilight duo
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
"everybosy"?
"The Juice is Loose."
Yes to Azael and Verona.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Everyone I missed.
Now before I make my writeup for Ophanimon, here's one thing I want to know: has anyone from Bibleman ever been brought up for the thread?
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Show.sounds too cheesy to have one. Maybe there was.one before the initial.purge of non-discussed examples.
Watch me destroying my country
Gentle Laborer
I don't think Bibleman could be taken too seriously...
Goku Black
I think something that odd doesn't have examples.
Lizzid people!
I've seen it...hard no to anyone qualifying there.
Well, Captain Planet and the Planeteers has two....
Lizzid people!
One villain is the show's version of the Devil who turned a goddess into an elderly mortal which would inevitably cause the destruction of the Earth because she was linked to it. He tried to cause a nuclear war. He turned the world into a wasteland for ten years. He was literally behind every dictator in history.
The other distributed mind-altering drugs to their victims which led to a Character Death. Tried to start a war. Tried to painfully transform humanity into rat creatures to serve him. And harassed a young man for having AIDS.
I don't see what similarities lie between them and any villains from Bibleman.
Edited by AustinDR on Dec 5th 2018 at 7:04:52 AM
Goku Black
Yeah Verminous and Zarm are the only villains on the show who set out to harm people rather than the environment
There's a BIG difference there which isn't there with bibleman
Edited by miraculous on Dec 5th 2018 at 7:17:36 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
The Draftsman of Doom
As promised, here is my first proposal from the Sniper Assassin Franchise:
Sniper Assassin is a franchise where you must take down a corrupt textile manufacturer with ties to the drug trade called FFG Corporation. The name of its leader in the first three games is Mr. Johnson.
Who is Mr. Johnson, and what has he done?
Mr Johnson is the head of FFG Corp., a textile manufacturer with a secret role in the drug trade. After learning that Shawn Davidson has been ordered to try and take down his organization, Johnson has the former's wife murdered. Subsequently, to protect himself and manipulate Shawn into helping him, Johnson infiltrates Shawn’s agency under a false identity, and when captured, claiming that his family was at gunpoint and that he was forced to help Johnson, when in reality, he is Johnson, and has a random “family” taken hostage. Johnson then manipulates Shawn into killing men working for him, including some mutinous underlings. Johnson subsequently tricks Shawn into torturing a subordinate for information, then leaves a letter taunting Shawn, only expressing disappointment at the fact that Shawn couldn’t kill more of the mutineers. Johnson spends the rest of the game trying to escape while putting the rest of his subordinates in Shawn’s line of fire.
Mitigating Factors?
I think not. Anything that has to do with Mr. Johnson caring about anybody but his own worthless skin ends up being a lie. Johnson is not shown to actually have a family he cares about. The only reason Johnson allows Shawn to save the “family” he himself threatened is apparently pragmatic villainy. Otherwise, Johnson is motivated by greed and cowardice, and will not hesitate to kill civilians.
Heinousness? Johnson is only matched by his successor, Mr. J, who actually carried out Johnson’s orders, and gives cruel orders himself as successor (I’ll effort post him later). Otherwise, while there are some murderers, rapists, and other petty criminals who die at Shawn’s hands, Johnson stands tall by virtue of the orders he gave, his appalling treatment of his subordinates, and his overall larger role as a kingpin.
Verdict
That's up to you.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Jun 19th 2022 at 8:52:03 AM
I remember playing Sniper Assassin when I was younger.
I'll give a to him
Goku Black
Johnson
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Unless I'm missing something, Johnson has the hero's wife killed, is a drug kingpin, and a really Bad Boss. Sounds bad, but I'm not quite sure if it's CM-level bad.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Draftsman of Doom
Mr. Johnson does have what he thinks is a civilian family threatened in order to trick Shawn into Killing his subordinates.
They turn out to be employees of Mr. J, Who succeeds Johnson, but there is every indication that Johnson does not hesitate to threaten civilians. Intention counts, does it not?
It does not matter whether I think he counts, in my opinion. It's out of my hands.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Dec 5th 2018 at 10:34:29 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
You know, I'll give a VERY slight yes. Did he let the family go, or did Shawn free them? If the former, that may be an issue.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts