During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
"The Juice is Loose."
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Himiko and Groa
I can do Magus. He's been on my list for a while.
Ares. Ironic considering that so far as I can tell we have no version of the Ares we all know and love counting.
to Himiko.
Groa.
So I have a question — originally or was gonna be something off topic to start a side discussion, but I think I already have the answer to that one — is Lord of Illusions considered a Hellraiser spinoff ? I bought the film on tape today and heard how it crosses over with Hellraiser in both comic's and The Scarlet Gospels.
Edited by Beast on Sep 21st 2018 at 8:29:28 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
Ares, Himoko, Groa.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Which specifically? WW Ares or God of War Ares?
Groa.
Also. I love seeing our Starter Villain of Persona 5 getting a new job
◊.
You know what would be crazy? That he actually manages to commit crimes in PQ-2 and we have to add them to his entry.
Crosses fingers
Edited by KazuyaProta on Sep 21st 2018 at 10:12:47 AM
Watch me destroying my country
Okay I’ve been thinking about how to do Himiko’s write-up and I’ve decided to give her both an entry from the video game as well as an entry for the comic book, since she does more or less the same amount of atrocities in the comic book as in the video game. So here they are (along with Mathias’ entry)
- Tomb Raider (2013): This Continuity Reboot has this Big Bad Duumvirate:
- Himiko is the Sun of Yamatai who extended her rule for centuries by possessing numerous women, leaving them trapped within their own boddies. When her latest sacrifice kills herself before the ritual could be complete, Himiko left in her decaying body brings a curse upon Yamatai, resulting in all her subjects dying and her loyal soldiers forcibly transformed into her immortal slaves. She would also create a series of storms to lure and entrap dozens of people into her cursed island; among these people includes the equally evil Mathias who she convinces to form his cult and have him bring her Samantha Nishimura, beliving her to be a suitable host for her to posses, so she escape from her imprisonment and spread her dark influence to the rest of the world.
- Father Mathias, upon being stranded on Yamatai island, tricks many of his fellow survivors into sailing off said island to prove that escaping by boat was impossible, uncaring about their deaths. Forming the Solarii Brotherhood based around the aforementioned Himiko, he only uses the Sun Queen to distract his followers while he tries to escape alone, showing no true loyalty to her or his cult; he has his initiates go through days or even weeks without food or water, with many driven to cannibalism. Callous to the deaths of his followers and allies alike, Mathias kills one of his own for objecting to his order to blow up a bridge some his men were on, and leaves Dr. Whitman to his death after convincing him to betray the other survivors.
- Tomb Raider: Himiko, despite the events of 2013 game, has actually survive and is successful in inhabiting Samantha Nishimura’s body, driving Sam insane resulting in her being institutionalized to an asylum. Eventually succeeding in obtaining full control of Sam’s body, Himiko kills everyone in the asylum before escaping and brainwashing many soldiers into serving her. She has one of her slaves throw grenade into a house full of innocent people because she thought Sam’s best friend Lara Croft was there, before heading out to Yamatai to regain the rest of powers needed to bring the entire world under her tyrannical rule.
@ACW, Polar Phantom, and 43110 you can make edits to these entries if you feel like it.
Edited by G-Editor on Sep 21st 2018 at 6:00:14 AM
We don't need to give her two entries. Find a way to merge and condense them and have her at the top of the tree as a general example.
Apologies for being unable to help with Griffith. First, schoolwork got in the way, but then, to put it in vague terms, my girlfriend is going through some things and needs my help. In short, I'm going to be taking more time off this thread. Things have gotten considerably worse and I can't power through with so many things at once.
Bt-dubs, thanks to the person who did Griffith's write-up since I couldn't. Apologies for the inconvenience this has caused.
No worries there. Take all the time you need.
Really, I mean we gave to Tomas Torquemade from AC two entries from the video game and the film, but if this is what you want how's this:
- Tomb Raider (2013): The 2nd Continuity Reboot has this Big Bad Duumvirate:
- Himiko, the Sun Queen of Yamatai, extended her rule for centuries by possessing numerous women. When her latest sacrifice kills herself, Himiko brings a curse upon Yamatai, resulting in all her subjects dying and her soldiers transformed into her immortal slaves. She would also create storms to entrap dozens of people into her cursed island; among these people includes the bellow-mentioned Mathias who she convinces to bring Samantha Nishimura, for her to posses. Though seemingly gone, the comic book series reveals that she has survived and inhabits Sam’s body, driving her insane. With Sam being commissioned to an asylum, Himiko succeeds in obtaining full control of Sam’s body, where she kills everyone there before escaping and brainwashing many men into servitude; she has one throw a grenade at a house full of innocent people because she thought Lara Croft was there. Himiko then heads back to Yamatai to reclaim her throne and the powers needed to spread her dark influence throughout the world.
- Father Mathias, upon being stranded on Yamatai island, tricks many of his fellow survivors into sailing off said island to prove that escaping by boat was impossible, uncaring about their deaths. Forming the Solarii Brotherhood based around the aforementioned Himiko, he only uses the Sun Queen to distract his followers while he tries to escape alone, showing no true loyalty to her or his cult; he has his initiates go through days or even weeks without food or water, with many driven to cannibalism. Callous to the deaths of his followers and allies alike, Mathias kills one of his own for objecting to his order to blow up a bridge some his men were on, and leaves Dr. Whitman to his death after convincing him to betray the other survivors.
Is this any better?
Edited by G-Editor on Sep 21st 2018 at 8:30:52 AM
Caesar
A 'Yes' to Ares and Groa.
Howdy all, just little old me, popping in for a proposal or two. Nothing major, just a couple candidates I've had in the works, so let's discuss....firstly, a baddie from one of the Ravok's trademarks...Criiiiiiiiime Noveeeeels.
Who is he? What has he done?
Titus Rhone, nicknamed "the Prophet" by the public, is a delusional, psychopathic serial killer who bases his crimes around Dante's Inferno and serves as the main antagonist of the novel Unsub by Meg Gardiner, modeling and seeing himself as Mercury, a god who delivered the message of suffering and pain to the condemned of hell.
A psychopath since childhood who tortured and killed small animals—like a classmate's hamster with a stapler—Rhone would spend his days inside a library while his mother went off partying and getting drunk, reading works like Paradise Lost and of course, his favorite, Dante's Inferno.
Rhone committed his first murder in his twenties...while jogging, he was approached by a young woman who jogged alongside him just to give them both company. When Rhone spotted the same woman jogging with someone else, he condemned her as a "Tease," and proceeded to kidnap and beat her before strangling her to death...in a moment of "inspiration", he decided to model her death after the Entrance to Hell from Dante's Inferno, stringing her up and setting a booby trap to unleash wasps all over whoever stumbled across her body in an isolated shed.
Gaining both a sadistic thrill and an "epiphany" from this, Rhone became convinced it was no his mission to "punish" the sinners of the world, and begins committing crimes based on the Nine Circles of Hell from Dante's Inferno.
- For the First Circle (Those who never accepted Christ's love are trapped in limbo), Rhone suffocates a professor of Eastern religions and leaves him on a ferris wheel in an amusement park, right near an attraction called the Limbo.
- For the Second Circle (Those who lived carnal and sexual-based lives are swept up in a constant storm), Rhone stabs a woman who was married five times to death and leaves her on the roof of her car in a car wash.
- For the Third Circle (Those who were gluttons and gorged themselves on a regular basis are devoured by Cerberus, a monstrous three headed dog), Rhone kidnaps a couple he spies on overeating and feeds them to three attack dogs before butchering the dogs themselves.
- For the Fourth Circle (The greedy are cursed to fight over rocks), Rhone kidnaps a wealthy couple and sews the symbol of Mercury into their flesh with fishing wire before murdering them and chunking them into a dump truck full of rocks at a construction site.
- For the Fifth Circle (The sullen, rage-filled, and perpetually wrathful are sunk into the swamps of River Styx), Rhone kidnaps two normal teenage girls (The fact that he just picks two random teenagers to fill this role of "sullen and full of anger" is strangely hilarious to me), tattoos quotes from Dante's Inferno onto their arms, and though one girl gets away, he continues his intended method of murder on the other girl, tying her to a concrete block and chunking her into a pond to drown.
- For the Sixth Circle (Disbelievers in God are buried in fire hot graves), Rhone kidnaps a young, atheist couple, tied them up in a cemetery, and burns them alive.
Rhone was on a roll, with another particularly vile tidbit being that he would call up the families of his victims to mock them and even play recorded audio of their loved ones' screams as he killed them, however...during said immolating of the young couple, he is cornered and chased down by the two detectives assigned to his case, Eric Saunders and Mack Hendrix (Who he has personally tormented with audio tapes of his victims' dying moments and even secretly gave Mack Mercury poisoning).
Murdering Saunders, Rhone...has a bit of a break out when Saunders uses his final words to deliver an eery, Inferno-like message to him that spooks him enough to end his killings and go into hiding, believing it was a message from above to end his murders.
For twenty years, Rhone hides. For twenty years, Rhone stews. And when he feels the call again...he has twenty years of pent-up sadism to let out.
Spurned on by the belief he has been "called" once again, Rhone returns to his old stomping grounds of the East Bay Area, moving in with his estranged daughter Myyrha Paige, convincing her to become a police officer over the course of several months, then using her to spy on the department, all while pretending to want to be in her life again.
With his plans laid....Rhone begins his new killing spree, and "the Prophet" returns to the spotlight, and this time? He has a "disciple" helping him, a "serial killer in training" if you will, who helps him commit all his crimes.
Kidnapping a woman cheating on her husband and the man she is cheating with, Rhone tortures them by brutally whipping them, uses a nail gun to drive nails into their chests in the shape of the sign of Mercury, then strangles them to death with the same bullwhip he tortured them with.
Calling up the cheating woman's husband, Rhone plays him back the audio of the woman's death, proclaiming the man should thank him for killing his "whore" of a wife.
Resuming his pattern of the Circles on the Seventh (Violence is punished) Rhone uses his tech-savviness to find a man and woman meeting in a park for rough sex using a fetish site...and though only the man shows up, Rhone still uses a crossbow to torture then murder him. Rhone then uses a clever trap to lure in detectives to the man's car...only to blow it up and nearly kill several officers.
In perhaps his most gruesome crime yet, Rhone kidnaps a two women who own a coffee shop where the simultaneously practice fortune telling....basing it around the Eighth Circle, where fortune-tellers and sorcerers have their heads turned backwards so they can't "see" anything in front of them, let alone the future, Rhone ties the women up and twists their heads around with his bare hands, snapping their necks while the scream in agony....all while Rhone records it, then plays it over a radio station he has dialed into to mock the police chasing him, lead by Mack Hendrix's daughter Caitlin.
After using a reporter to gain insights into Caitlin, Rhone murders him with strangulation for being a "Thief," due to the fact that he once interviewed the one victim who escaped Rhone and published a story about it, thus "stealing" Rhone's secrets between himself and his victims.
Rhone then calls up Caitlin and informs her he has two targets in mind....her own mother, or Derralynn, a young mother who used a "fan site" of the Prophet's to give info to Caitlin. When Caitlin calls her mother to warn her she's in danger, Rhone takes this as her making a "choice" to save her, and promptly kidnaps and butchers Derralynn with a cleaver for the sin of "treachery" in her online realm, and sends a video of it to Caitlin to mock the woman.
With the entire city in a frenzied panic as Rhone broadcasts several recordings of his monstrous killings to TV stations and online servers, Rhone begins his master plan...having found several maps of San Fransisco's old abandoned subway tunnels during his bouts in the library in his younger years, Rhone prepares to initiate his "Ninth Circle of Hell"...because the Ninth Circle signifies treachery and betrayal, and everyone in a scummy city like San Francisco is guilty of these things, Rhone plans to detonate bombs throughout the city's subway and cause the entire city to collapse in on itself and kill its hundreds of thousands of civilians
Kidnapping Caitlin's lover Sean, Rhone lures Caitlin and her father into the subways for a final confrontation, viciously slashing the throats of two cops they brought with them before cornering the duo, using a nail gun to nail Caitlin's hand to a wall, then begin torturing Mack with it as Caitlin watches.
Rhone then makes Caitlin the offer that, if she orders him to kill Mack and Sean while she watches, he'll disarm the bomb and let her go free... unfortunately for him, Mack manages to rush the madman and incapacitate him long enough for Caitlin to blast Rhone with a shotgun, and while the bomb reaches the end of its countdown...it doesn't detonate.
Rhone then realizes he's been betrayed by that disciple I mentioned, and though outraged at first....he smiles widely as he realizes the irony of the Ninth Circle representing "treachery," and uses his final moments to try to murder Sean out of insane spite towards Catilin before the woman ends his reign by shooting him, at which point he falls onto the third rail of the subway tracks and is electrocuted to death.
And though the day is saved, Mack ultimately dies from the wounds Rhone inflicted ...and Rhone's disciple is still out there, planning to be a bigger and better killer than his teacher ever was....
Freudian Excuse or other redeeming qualities?
Ah, no. Rhone's mother was neglectful but nowhere near abusive, and Rhone is explicitly shown to have been a sadist since his younger years. And while he has a daughter who he moves in with and "grows closer" to, it's shown that Rhone is just using her for a place to stay and a spy in the department. The fact that he named her Myyrha, a character whose father sleeps with her then tried to murder her kinda....makes this....creeeeepy.....
The only real potential issue here is that Rhone has his creepy little "I'm Mercury punishing sinners" schtick, that extends to such a point that he stops killing for twenty years when he thinks Saunders's last words are a warning from God, but this is honestly just a John Doe situation where he's just a delusional Knight Templar who uses righteousness to fuel his natural sadism. He's not mentally incompetent or completely and totally insane, being a high-functioning genius and strategist who just chooses to model himself after Mercury.
Heinousness?
Worst villain in the novel or its sequel, bar none. And for the baseline, zooms over it. Has over a dozen murders to his name, nearly all in seriously brutal fashions, and ultimately tries to wipe out a chunk of San Fransisco. If his follower hadn't betrayed him he would have killed thousands quite easily.
Final Verdict?
Methiiiiiiiiiinks a Keep.
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Welcome back Ravok! How's things in life 
also aye to your new candidate
Yeah, sounds like an easy keep
Frolaytia X Qwenthur of Heavy Object
Rhome
Ultimate Moral Compass
When in Rhone
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Hmm, maybe Himiko SHOULD be added to the comics page as well? What say everyone?
Scraggle: I like the Dracula image. Any good captions?
Yes to Titus. Wow. What happens to his disciple?
EDIT: This is a shame 
Edited by ACW on Sep 22nd 2018 at 3:34:52 PM
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
I've also put my previous entries of Himiko if you want to choose between them and my combined entry as well as edit them
To Titus AndRhonedom.
Edited by G-Editor on Sep 22nd 2018 at 9:57:51 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I'll use the combined one for the VG page (and YMMV page) and the comic one for the Comics page.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Goku Black
Titus
V
Titus and Himiko.
Shadow of the Tomb Raider might have a pretty interesting discussion going with it...
The Dracula image on the Holmes CM is pretty good so I’m ok with keeping it.
However, there are two more image from Victorian Undead, I would like to suggest.
This one
◊ gives the reader a glimpse of the crimes Dracula committed when he was still human.
And if there's too much going on in the first one, there's also this one
◊.
Now as for the Moriarty from Victorian Undead: I really wish I could find any good images. He's Holmes Arch-Enemy afterall. Sadly, he’s mostly staying in the background, plotting and scheming, while his zombies do the dirty work. So all I could offer are images of his zombies killing and devouring people.
Edited by NTG on Sep 22nd 2018 at 2:39:35 AM
Titus and Himiko.
By the way, are we gonna need a CM page for Tomb Raider ?
Me in a nutshell (Coping with Depression)
Dont think theres enough CM for Tomb Raider page so it can be skipped entirely for now.
"Making screw-ups and mistakes was I ever really good at. Because everything I touch went to hell."
Edited by Scraggle on Sep 21st 2018 at 6:48:42 AM